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What are trump's terms\conditions on DACA?

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  • Independent
    Washington
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    Do YOU think trump will provide conditions as to what he will, or won't, accept in related to DACA?

    If so, what do you think those conditions will be?

    If he provides any conditions, will they be non-negotiable terms where he either gets 100%, or veto Bills that does not meet his conditions?

    I think he will play very high stakes poker with the lives of Dreamers. Trump loses nothing if Dems don't give him everything he demands. I think it will be a All or nothing deal, there will be no compromise.

    This is more like hostage taking than a political deal.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Yes Trump took the Dem's hostage; they are lacking real negotiators who know how to play the game. Also the Dem's are way to divided to be a strong team with a solid "attack plan"; they are all over the place and have no unity in their party. Just look at on how they vote.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Tucson, AZ
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    The stories on this changer every day.

    This morning, Chuck Schumer said that funding for the wall is "off the table".

    Trump has already opted out of supporting DACA, so it is impossible to predict how this whole mess will turn out. The most realistic situation is that both parties will be doing the same song and dance in 3 more weeks, with the possibility of yet another shutdown.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    The hostages are the Dreamers. It is there lives that are risk in the DACA deal. trump gets what he wants or they SOL. Its does not appear to be the when\how\where details. It appears to be about trump getting what he wants in exchange for their lives.

    What is he asking in exchange for him allowing them to stay?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Yes Trump took the Dem's hostage; they are lacking real negotiators who know how to play the game. Also the Dem's are way to divided to be a strong team with a solid "attack plan"; they are all over the place and have no unity in their party. Just look at on how they vote.

    The Democrats have been rather united this year, even in the Senate. That's surprising because I was anticipating a lot of red-state Democratic Senators being wishy-washy out of fear of upsetting their home state constituency.

    As I said in a previous post - the Democrats have zero power. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Their only real power is to say "no" in the Senate, which is a strategy that can only be successful for so long.

    Here's what I say - give Donald the money for his big, beautiful wall in exchange for permanent residency and a pathway to citizenship for DACA recipients and their parents. Hell, Congressmen Luis Gutierrez even said he'd build the wall himself if it meant Dreamers get to stay. The reason he said that is because he fully understands that the wall will never, ever (ever) be built. The next Congress or President can come in and stop it in its tracks, but the millions of DACA recipients would no longer be held hostage. It's a win-win.

    We have to play chess, Dutch. Give Donald something he thinks is a "win" in order to make it so millions of Dreamers can continue living and working here.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    wwjd Wrote: What is he asking in exchange for him allowing them to stay?
    He wants the wall. I say give it to him. The Great Wall of America will never be built, but millions of Dreamers will be able to stay without fear of deportation. It's a no-brainer to me.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    While I am glad some members are content, I don't share the optimism. I know we're a minority but we're not dead. We should disagree with most of this administration's agenda in well stated comments worthy of inspiring 18 year olds to say that's how I think too. Gonna register to vote this week.

    Just because we can't always numerically stop them doesn't mean the message doesn't need to get out that we don't agree with most of their party and their agendas.

    Donald Trump doesn't own all forms of social media but he over uses Twitter and gets the daily message out. How will a huge number read the news today ? On Facebook. Democrats must get in accordance with reaching maximum people every day. These times they are a changing. Is the party proficient ? 360 days a year the news tells me what the president said on Twitter. If he said 3 things we get to hear them all. Usually it's self serving comments to let his base know what he's thinking.

    Days a year that I see an opposing view mentioned ? Nearly zero.

    Wise minds in the party should address that huge elephant in the room.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    jaredsxtn Wrote: He wants the wall. I say give it to him. The Great Wall of America will never be built, but millions of Dreamers will be able to stay without fear of deportation. It's a no-brainer to me.

    If that is all he wants is the wall, I doubt there will any problems.

    What I think is going to happen is that trump's base, and far far far right will block "path to full citizenship". The far right will agree to allow Dreamers to stay indefinitely in the US, but never be allowed to become US citizens. In other words, part of the deal may include they can't vote, they don't have Constitutional Rights, etc.

    Do dems agree to a deal that allows dreamers to stay indefinitely, but under a set of conditions that never allows them a path to citizenship and, more-or-less, classifies them as legally permanent second class citizens?

    Whatever trump demands, for him those demands are non-negotiable. Its everything he wants, or Dreamer will be immediately arrested and deported. ICE knows who they are, where the live, where they work, etc.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    wwjd Wrote: If that is all he wants is the wall, I doubt there will any problems.

    What I think is going to happen is that trump's base, and far far far right will block "path to full citizenship". The far right will agree to allow Dreamers to stay indefinitely in the US, but never be allowed to become US citizens. In other words, part of the deal may include they can't vote, they don't have Constitutional Rights, etc.

    Do dems agree to a deal that allows dreamers to stay indefinitely, but under a set of conditions that never allows them a path to citizenship and, more-or-less, classifies them as legally permanent second class citizens?

    Whatever trump demands, for him those demands are non-negotiable. Its everything he wants, or Dreamer will be immediately arrested and deported. ICE knows who they are, where the live, where they work, etc.

    That's a tough question. Honestly, I would be fine with them being allowed to stay indefinitely without a path to citizenship (for now) because that will make it so we won't have millions of people round up and deported back to a home they've never known simply because Democrats took a "citizenship or nothing" stance.

    I said "for now" because it is something Democrats would be able to revisit once we are in power again. If we are able to secure indefinite legal status and revisit the citizenship question at a later date then we should take it because the alternative is a million times worse.

    The wall will never be built because the Federal bureaucracy moves slower than a three-toed sloth and a new Congress or President would be able to "tear down that wall!" a hell of a lot faster than Donald would ever be able to put it up.

    Democrats have to be realistic. I get the urge to fight fight fight, but if we can get 85% of everything we want then I say take it. We don't control any branches of government and won't for at least one more year. Even if we win both houses of Congress in 2018 (which is highly unlikely given the abysmal Senate map and horrendously gerrymandered House districts) we will still have to work with Donald or Pence if Donald magically goes away. That's just a fact far too many liberals (I'm not lumping you into this category) don't understand or simply refuse to accept.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Its really too early to know what deal will be reached with Republicans in control. If democrats had more power\influence, I wouldn't be concerned. My concern about permanent legal status with no path to citizenship, we are looking at having a "Class" of people who don't have Constitutional Rights. They legally would be second class citizens with less rights and less protection from being abused and taken advantage of.

    Very long term, this will be resolved in their favor, but will it be resolved in their life time? It would be unfair\unjust\inhuman for them to live their entire lives as individuals who can't vote, don't have constitutional rights. The concern I have that there will always be higher political priorities so, like gun shootings in schools, the issue is a stalemate where the costs never rise high enough to create change; we accept the the problem as being within normal boundaries because it affects so few people, and the odds of it impacting us personally or anyone we directly know, is next to nothing.

    What I'd like to see is that it expires in 10 years or less with Dreamers automatically becoming citizens unless congress votes by an 60% majority to extend it longer. This places the burden on hardliners to convince the majority to continue a second class system which is clearly discriminatory.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    foto van Yoshiaki Matsuoka.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    wwjd Wrote: Its really too early to know what deal will be reached with Republicans in control. If democrats had more power\influence, I wouldn't be concerned. My concern about permanent legal status with no path to citizenship, we are looking at having a "Class" of people who don't have Constitutional Rights. They legally would be second class citizens with less rights and less protection from being abused and taken advantage of.

    Trust me - I share all of your concerns, but we also have to think about the bigger picture. Dreamers would already be citizens if it were up to me, but it isn't. Democrats have to recognize that we are the minority and since we are the minority we don't get to dictate the terms of any potential agreement.

    Would permanent legal status with no (current) path to citizenship be better than rounding up millions of dreamers and shipping them back to a country they've never known? I think it would.

    After we get the Dreamers permanent legal status, no matter how flawed it is, then we can move on to the next goal of granting them citizenship.

    However, the only way that will happen is if Democrats can figure out how to come together and vote with one voice in Federal elections. If we keep splitting the vote or stay home on election day because our preferred candidate didn't get the nomination then our goal of solving this issue will never become reality.

    wwjd Wrote: Very long term, this will be resolved in their favor, but will it be resolved in their life time? It would be unfair\unjust\inhuman for them to live their entire lives as individuals who can't vote, don't have constitutional rights. The concern I have that there will always be higher political priorities so, like gun shootings in schools, the issue is a stalemate where the costs never rise high enough to create change; we accept the the problem as being within normal boundaries because it affects so few people, and the odds of it impacting us personally or anyone we directly know, is next to nothing.

    I think it will be solved in Dreamers lifetimes because minorities will become the majority in their (and my) lifetimes. That is what scares the right so much - the "browning" of America.

    "A cornered rat will bite the cat." The rat (white, right-wing, Anglo-saxon Christians) sense danger and are doing whatever it takes to defeat the cat (liberals/brown people). The rat will eventually lose the battle, but it won't be without inflicting some damage to the cat.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    that guy in AZ Wrote:

    The stories on this changer every day.

    This morning, Chuck Schumer said that funding for the wall is "off the table".

    Trump has already opted out of supporting DACA, so it is impossible to predict how this whole mess will turn out. The most realistic situation is that both parties will be doing the same song and dance in 3 more weeks, with the possibility of yet another shutdown.

    I find it rather naive from Schumer to say that now. He should have said such day one. I've learned from my negotiations that "backtracking" seldom works; it makes you look stupid.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I guess Trump and the GOP are forgetting this:

    https://www.facebook.com/windemocrats/videos/1542763592446118/

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Don't forget that Trump doesn't have a position that he can be pinned down to.