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Government Shutdown?

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Legally: Congress MUST submit a bill to the president, if he refuses to sign it, congress must stay in DC and in session which would be = to missing the holidays at home with their families for at least 10 days.

    dummies.com/education/politics-governme...

    After Congress sends the president a final bill, he has 10 days to act on it in one of two ways:

    • Sign it into law. If he doesn’t want to sign it but doesn’t want to veto it, he can simply ignore it and it becomes law in ten days (excepting Sundays) while Congress is in session.
    • Veto it. The word “veto” literally means “I refuse” in Latin, and the president has the constitutional power to stop a piece of legislation in its tracks, even after it’s been through the entire legislative process. It’s the Constitution’s ultimate executive check on legislation.
    • The return veto: The return veto mechanism is a straightforward provision in the Constitution. The president simply refuses to sign the legislation into law and sends it back to Congress with a message explaining why the legislation wasn’t signed.
    • The pocket veto: In a pocket veto, the president neither vetoes a bill nor signs it — but if Congress adjourns during the 10-day period when the president has the bill, the bill doesn’t become law. In other words, the president puts the bill in his pocket, waits out the Congress, and nothing happens.

      Overriding a veto

      When the president vetoes a bill, the legislation is dead unless Congress takes action.

      Congress can override the veto, and in doing so, passes the bill over the president’s formal objection. Overriding a presidential veto requires a two-thirds majority vote of the members present and voting (in other words, those who are actually in the chamber rather than two-thirds of the total) in each chamber.

      An override vote is a momentous step and difficult to win. In recent years the mere threat of a veto has been enough to convince members not to proceed with provisions that the president doesn’t like.

    The government would be without funding and shut down for at least 10 days (excluding holidays and weekends)

    IMO, the congress should stay in session for those ten days and force trump to either sign the bill or let him go golfing and allow due process (constitutional law) to take it's course. And if congress were smart, they would appropriate funding through at least July or August of 2019, so trump wouldn't be able to try to shut the government down so soon after short term funding runs out-without wall funding of course.

    If congress goes home while the pot is still boiling, it will show voters that they don't give a fuck about putting their country first, it will show us all that they only care about their personal lives, instead of personal sacrifice.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Thanks Dockadams -- That's the legal side of it. Now Trump is launching a series of videos blaming the Democrats, playing the political game and doing what he does best: lying to the American people.

    Democrats could counter, I suppose, by launching a series of real short "commercials" with Trump emphatically claiming that he will own the shutdown. We've already seen the clips on MSNBC. Then run it all weekend during every televised football game and on Fox News (if they don't ban it). Add to it some testimonials from ordinary Americans suffering because of the shutdown with them exclaiming, "I thought Mexico was going to pay for it!"

    But Democrats won't do it. They play the nice game while Trump and Fox News play dirty.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    But yeah, this is not the "total" picture; all of this is an part/combination of "incompetence". Yes the chickens come home and will be eaten alive. All of this together will have its effect on this country. Thank the "baby leader" and the dumb asses around him. Yes I've said so many times; "design" an "vetting" manual!
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Thanks Dockadams -- That's the legal side of it. Now Trump is launching a series of videos blaming the Democrats, playing the political (blame) game and doing what he does best: lying to the American people.

    Democrats could counter, I suppose, by launching a series of real short "commercials" with Trump emphatically claiming that he will own the shutdown. We've already seen the clips on MSNBC. Then run it all weekend during every televised football game and on Fox News (if they don't ban it). Add to it some testimonials from ordinary Americans suffering because of the shutdown with them exclaiming, "I thought Mexico was going to pay for it!"

    But Democrats won't do it. They play the nice game while Trump and Fox News play dirty.

    It was reported on ABC & NBC, you know GMA and the other, that congressional members went home for the holidays, I don't know what home means, but maybe the lawmakers should actually READ the constitution before they go home or plan to. If trump refuses to sign a funding bill, or refuses to veto the bill, all they need do is wait him out and then it becomes law, by then, we will be in a new year and democrats who will then hold a majority in the house can then hold trump's feet to the fire. I think Schumer indicated democrats were in for the long haul by telling trump he will not get his wall. That's the message I got from Chuck's comments on the floor. Chuck touched upon the hard right influence on trump as you stated above.

    Video of Schumer: youtube.com/watch?v=G-iVPZOfD_g

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    This shutdown is kind of "ho hum"...or perhaps humbug to some. Since McConnell has adjourned the Senate until December 27th, when they get back the Democrats position will be even stronger to play the wait game until January 3rd. On January 3rd, Nancy Pelosi will simply pass the continuing resolution (CR) that has already passed unanimously in the Senate. Then they can all get back to negotiating.

    What is going to be more interesting is how Trump spins this to his advantage, playing the victim and blaming the Democrats. His base will stay with him because "at least he tried". Ann Coulter will give him kudos for trying. Trump again will play it up..."the hero".

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Trump promised his base 5 billion for the Trump wall. How does he get out from under that promise without right-wing radio and Fox news accusing him of being a coward that caved?

    His base wants him to break the back of congress; unconditional surrender.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Would Trump sign a bill that had his 5 billion for his wall, if that same bill had included an additional 5 billion for refugee\asylum support that he had no control over?
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Trump has backed himself into a corner. He knows he's not going to win with any kind of compromise short of his $5 billion. To salvage his reputation with his base led by Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, he has no choice then but to hold out, at least to January 3rd, when that "hated Nancy Pelosi" takes matters into her own hands. In that scenario, Trump comes away with a "win" because he did not capitulate. His base will admire him even more for holding out.

    That's why this shutdown will have to continue until January 3rd. Trump's "Vanity Wall" as some Democrats are now labeling it, is less about the wall and more about Trump's vanity -- his pompous pride and self-esteem.

    After January 3rd, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter will commend him for putting up a valiant fight -- he will play the victim.

    My opinion...

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Trump whining on twitter, I'm alone in the white house, wah, wah, wah…

    what's he want, someone to come to him in the dead of night and wipe his nose and change his diaper?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Trump's Tweets are becoming more pathetic everyday. Examples:

    @realDonaldTrump

    I am all alone (poor me) in the White House waiting for the Democrats to come back and make a deal on desperately needed Border Security. At some point the Democrats not wanting to make a deal will cost our Country more money than the Border Wall we are all talking about. Crazy!

    @realDonaldTrump

    The only problem our economy has is the Fed. They don’t have a feel for the Market, they don’t understand necessary Trade Wars or Strong Dollars or even Democrat Shutdowns over Borders. The Fed is like a powerful golfer who can’t score because he has no touch - he can’t putt!

    @realDonaldTrump

    AMERICA IS RESPECTED AGAIN!

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Trump's Tweets are becoming more pathetic everyday. Examples:

    @realDonaldTrump

    I am all alone (poor me) in the White House waiting for the Democrats to come back and make a deal on desperately needed Border Security. At some point the Democrats not wanting to make a deal will cost our Country more money than the Border Wall we are all talking about. Crazy!

    @realDonaldTrump

    The only problem our economy has is the Fed. They don’t have a feel for the Market, they don’t understand necessary Trade Wars or Strong Dollars or even Democrat Shutdowns over Borders. The Fed is like a powerful golfer who can’t score because he has no touch - he can’t putt!

    @realDonaldTrump

    AMERICA IS RESPECTED AGAIN!

    He should go and adopt a dog and a dog sitter to keep him company. I heard Melania and he have their own separate areas in the white house. The bad thing about him owning or having a dog is that trump will turn on the dog and not the other way around, a dog will be a human's best friend no matter what the human does. Sorry, it was a horrible suggestion.
  • Independent
    Washington
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    Indeed pathetic.

    He feels he is in a catch-22. And like himself, his supporters are intolerant and unforgiving so he feels obliterated to get 100% of what they expect, or they will turn on him. The fact they were willing to turn on him over delaying it for 6 weeks shows his base is no longer willing to follow him forever as he continues to say "very soon, so soon you won't believe it"

    He very likely feels this is it, get the full funding for the wall, or his base will loose faith him in as being their demigod that will lead them back to the 1950s in all its black and white glory, where blacks sat at the back of the bus, women stayed at home making sure dinner was always ready when the husband walked in the door from work, and sexual misconduct at work was a benefit to working with women.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Well December 27th is here. Mitch McConnell has not apparently made any progress during the Christmas break. Look for the three parties (Democrats, Republicans, and Trumpians) to have a few more meetings in the next few days to cast blame and draw some more "lines in the sand" for public consumption. There will be claimed "serious efforts" to come to some kind of face saving compromise for the Trumpians...lots of sound and fury but nothing significant.

    Democrats under Nancy Pelosi's leadership will play along, but give the Trumpians nothing. Then on January 3rd, Nancy Pelosi will have two choice -- 1) pass the short term funding bill (CR) that the Senate has already passed unanimously, or 2) go for a longer term funding bill to September 30th.

    Passing the short term CR funds the government until February 8th with no funding for the new wall (whatever the definition of the wall has become). The ball will then be in Mitch McConnell's hands to repass the same exact bill that he already passed unanimously. I'm assuming that the new Senate Republicans will go along if McConnell will bring the CR to the Senate floor for a vote. They can pass it by at least a 60 vote margin -- a filibuster proof majority. Trump can then say it was "out of his hands". He put up a valiant fight.

    However, the short term CR only delays the fundamental arguments until February 8th and then we go at it again. If Pelosi really wants to avoid that "Trump Vanity Wall" fight again, she will take the second option and pass a longer term CR to take us to September 30th -- the start of the new fiscal year. McConnell will then be backed into a corner. He will want to get on with other legislation and not get his Senate bogged down in a fight for Trump's Vanity wall. But he still needs a "face saving" situation for Trump. And who knows what kind of tantrums Trump will display?

    It may be that McConnell gives up to Pelosi and takes the heat from the Trumpians in passing the longer term CR. Trump can say he fought a good fight, and that alone will be face saving for him...he didn't capitulate. Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh will give him partial credit for that but bash McConnell for capitulating. However, does McConnell want that heat? He will also be up for re-election in 2020.

    Just thinking out loud...who really knows?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    December 27th came and went with both houses of Congress opening for just a few minutes...a procedural move. The next move will be by Nancy Pelosi on January 3rd, so nothing to discuss until then. Some pundits are stating that Trump needs to keep this wall fight alive for two reasons. First it serves to rally his base, but second it will be a distraction for Pelosi who wants to get off to a running start in the new year. Bogging her down with the border wall funding issue means less discussion on her proposed ambitious agenda. However, Pelosi knows her job and she can "walk and chew gum at the same time."

    Now lets wait until January 3rd.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Don't forget all the "new" members, who all need time to get "worked in"; so it will take a while before the "machine" will run smoothly. Also don't forget the "old obstructive clan" in the Senate and elsewhere who still stick with Trump "till death us part"; such as McConnell, Jordan, Graham. Hatch, Grassly, Miller, Navvaro, Meadows, Ross, Paul etc. as well of course hypocrite Pence, who all are bound to make life even more miserable for the Dem's.