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Government Shutdown?

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    The kekistani wackos don't debate. They come onto websites to espouse their hate and white supremacist propaganda and are eventually banned. They cannot carry an intellectual dialogue on issues because their minds are so closed...
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote: I would ignore this so called "kekistani emissary". A quick browse of the internet will show that kekistani's have been banned from other websites...a bunch of racist wackos pretending to have their own country. They will be banned from this website as well.
    Yes get rid of those "trolls" ; deport those instead of hard working DACA or "Dreamer" people.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Getting back on topic, I watched the happenings last night leading to the shutdown including the speeches by McConnell and Shumer. It sure appears to me that this is a shutdown that Trump wanted, and that he thought he could profit from it politically by twisting the narrative and shifting the blame to Democrats.

    Two key observations: 1) Mitch McConnell indicated before all the fuss leading up to the shutdown, that he had no idea where Trump stood. 2) When Schumer met with Trump, Schumer capitulated by putting the border wall back on the table. Now I don't know what putting the border wall back on the table actually means, but I assume it means that Dems would allow the wall to be funded, at least in part, in return for an extension of DACA. Schumer indicated that he thought he had the basis of a deal, but that "deal" too became unglued somehow probably after Trump consulted with members of his right wing base who wants to deport all Dreamers. Or maybe DACA was never ever really on Trump's table.

    The way out of this mess is for McConnell to put another vote to the full Senate membership which includes DACA extensions, and some funds for a border wall. Let the Senate approve it, and then let Trump try veto it (assuming that the Freedom caucus in the House will not vote it down as well).

    My opinion.

    Reading the various accounts of the events yesterday, it would appear that the so called Freedom Caucus said no to Trump's deal with Schumer. But Trump is the leader of the party and could have gone forward with the deal despite their opposition. Instead he preferred a shutdown to a deal, and is counting on Fox News to spin it against the Democrats. In the end it was Donald Trump who scuttled the deal. He had the power to close the deal with a win for himself....perhaps a win-win. Trump doesn't want a win-win...he wants the Dems to be cast as the losers. Just look at all his tweets yesterday leading up to and after the shutdown.

    In the end it's just another example of how Trump loves to divide Americans. It follows his pattern of divisive tactics over his entire campaign and presidency. Divide Americans against themselves...and conquer.

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    Maindawg Wrote:

    This is another manufactured crisis. The fat idiot created the crisis with an executive order. All he has to do is reverse the order.

    Now it will cost us many billions if the government shuts down. It could lead to kayos it could lead to a collapse of the government . Is that what they want ? I believe it is. This war with Putin could get rough .

    The courts stopped Trump from being able to do anything to stop DACA
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Schmidt Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Getting back on topic, I watched the happenings last night leading to the shutdown including the speeches by McConnell and Shumer. It sure appears to me that this is a shutdown that Trump wanted, and that he thought he could profit from it politically by twisting the narrative and shifting the blame to Democrats.

    Two key observations: 1) Mitch McConnell indicated before all the fuss leading up to the shutdown, that he had no idea where Trump stood. 2) When Schumer met with Trump, Schumer capitulated by putting the border wall back on the table. Now I don't know what putting the border wall back on the table actually means, but I assume it means that Dems would allow the wall to be funded, at least in part, in return for an extension of DACA. Schumer indicated that he thought he had the basis of a deal, but that "deal" too became unglued somehow probably after Trump consulted with members of his right wing base who wants to deport all Dreamers. Or maybe DACA was never ever really on Trump's table.

    The way out of this mess is for McConnell to put another vote to the full Senate membership which includes DACA extensions, and some funds for a border wall. Let the Senate approve it, and then let Trump try veto it (assuming that the Freedom caucus in the House will not vote it down as well).

    My opinion.

    Reading the various accounts of the events yesterday, it would appear that the so called Freedom Caucus said no to Trump's deal with Schumer. But Trump is the leader of the party and could have gone forward with the deal despite their opposition. Instead he preferred a shutdown to a deal, and is counting on Fox News to spin it against the Democrats. In the end it was Donald Trump who scuttled the deal. He had the power to close the deal with a win for himself....perhaps a win-win. Trump doesn't want a win-win...he wants the Dems to be cast as the losers. Just look at all his tweets yesterday leading up to and after the shutdown.

    In the end it's just another example of how Trump loves to divide Americans. It follows his pattern of divisive tactics over his entire campaign and presidency. Divide Americans against themselves...and conquer.

    This article in the Washington Post is on target:

    Washington Post: There’s a strong case to make that Trump is a big reason why the government just shut down

    There are several reasons listed, but I'll focus on just one.

    "No one in Washington seems to know what he wants: So, wait, if the president said in private he would be okay with a shutdown, but in public decried one, what did he actually want?"

    Trump is all over the place showing his ignorance and his bias. Not even Mitch McConnell knows what might pop up in Trump's mind at the last moment. If Dems are frustrated, Mitch McConnell may be even more frustrated. You got a deal and then suddenly no deal. Is this the "art of the deal"?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Washington Post: ‘Negotiating with Jell-O’: How Trump’s shifting positions fueled the rush to a shutdown

    Another good WP article on the constantly changing positions of Donald Trump. Most of this we all know if we have been watching the news in the past month. Collectively for me, however, it invites yet another question that we have discussed in this website: Trump's mind. What the hell is going on in his head? It would appear that Trump is so incompetent and uninformed it is impossible for Republicans to negotiate with him, let alone Democrats. Read it and give your opinion. I am astounded. Yet Republicans have stood behind him like he is a messiah.

    Schumer summed it up quite aptly when he said it was like negotiating with Jell-o.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I'm so surprised that Trump does not want to spent money on needed things, while he is wasting millions on his stupid trips for his own ego and dealing and wheeling for his own business in Mar-a-Lago etc. He just sold again some apartments in India, of all places, for 35 million. I guess his job in the W.H. is an part time job. He's already wasted more than any other President ever. Even pays of all his mistresses with lots of money. I guess Mueller should suppena Melania to hear all these stories including the Russian prostitutes party in the hotel there.

    The only thing I hope that Schumer does not give him the "wall" ; but he may; thus falls for "blackmail"; yes that is what you get by not vetting an "con-man". Thanks stupid America; you can't vote for a bowl of "Jello".

  • Independent
    Washington
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    Various sources are reporting that extreme hardliners (true wackos) are advising trump he needs to handle this as a "Union Buster". Concede nothing, agree to nothing. Force the democrats to serendenter unconditionally. The theory is that one by one, like when busting union strike, the democrats will concede to everything, and get nothing in return for all their efforts.

    From the perspective of the extreme hardliners (not mainstream republicans), they know there will never be another trump in the WH, and after he is gone, they will return to the fringe with no power. This is their only, and last, chance (his term in office). For them, they are going to hit a grand slam, or strike out. They are betting the democrats will choke because they won't take the political risks required to beat the extreme right wing hardliners. The hardliners already know their fate, they'll be out of power when trump leaves office. There is no tomorrow for them, it's now or never. They are putting all their chips on the table, and democrats have match them because the hardliners will not fold, and they have the WH right now.

    Another perspective is, we have extreme hardline Terrorists that captured the WH in 2016, and are holding the government hostage.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Happy Anniversary Trump. This marks the end of a ridiculous year and the beginning of your collapse.
  • Independent
    Washington
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    This article in the Washington Post is on target:

    Washington Post: There’s a strong case to make that Trump is a big reason why the government just shut down

    There are several reasons listed, but I'll focus on just one.

    "No one in Washington seems to know what he wants: So, wait, if the president said in private he would be okay with a shutdown, but in public decried one, what did he actually want?"

    Trump is all over the place showing his ignorance and his bias. Not even Mitch McConnell knows what might pop up in Trump's mind at the last moment. If Dems are frustrated, Mitch McConnell may be even more frustrated. You got a deal and then suddenly no deal. Is this the "art of the deal"?

    ... And I think it is becoming clearer and clearer to both parties that trump will change his mind moment to moment, and will flip on ANYONE of them without warning or justification. Got a deal at 3pm, it very well could dead by 3:01 if not signed into law.

    Last night, I wrote short emails to several senators and representatives in both parties suggesting they marginalize trump, make a deal with out him, and put it on his desk. Stop waiting for him to agree in advance. Force him to sign or veto.

    My perception is that trump doesn't have the guts to veto any bill put on his desk because it means he owns the failure, and if he signs it, then he can claim\boast\brag\lie\etc that all the good parts were his ideas, and all the rest is not his fault, which is pattern of not taking ownership (a sign of weakness and deep insecurity); claim sole ownership of the good, and then blame others.

    Easily hear him saying:

    "I forced them to make a great deal, but after I signed it, i noticed they added some pretty bad things that will harm the American people, I will changes those very bad things very soon, so don't worry. I will fix everything and make America great again. The bad parts will go away, and I will keep the good parts"

    He won't identify the good or bad, just leave it nebulous so what so whatever is good\bad becomes an debatable topic that he won't confirm beyond vague hints. "we need more for the wall". leaving people saying WTF does that really mean, "More what?"

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Looking at all of this, I can only say that due to the system here, the US got what they could have prevented by having decent "voting" laws as well an "educated" population. Thus all of this an self inflicted wound. Nether does common sense prevail; who needs a wall; there is no return on investment, only a "symbol". China learned from their "wall"; we will not.

    If every country would put up walls then "freedom" no longer exists. Due to technology the world is tied closer together and can learn from each other. Sorry here they prefer isolation and an "island" mentality. This will be the downfall of this country. If Trump goes to Davos he will not be part of it, but seen as an "outsider". The world goes on also without the Trump clan.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    The country is not united. I was watching a T.V. show about people buying or renting overseas properties. The prices indicated that foreign middle class is better off than USA middle class.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Republicans are bad people with an agenda. We are better people but this morning I have no confidence in those Dems getting television time.

    The conman is in steam roller mode and we're saying negotiating with potus is like negotiating with Jello.... that's how you encapsulate this Chuck ? Communications is key and we need to out sell those who are pointing out how in chain migration - Maria not only gets her grandparents, and uncles but cousins and pen pals as well. I am sure Fido has provisions as well.

    We are right on DACA but we don't communicate our message or the importance of it all. Like a great gift that was wrapped horribly.

    This skilled conman will continue to get 90 % of what he wants while he "communicates" how we are the problem.

    Jello. That's what we came back with. Feeling clever Chuck ? Seemed distant and grossly inadequate but that's just my opinion.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    TJ Wrote:

    Jello. That's what we came back with. Feeling clever Chuck ? Seemed distant and grossly inadequate but that's just my opinion.

    I have a slight better opinion of CS, but I agree trump needs to be removed from picture and get the deal done without involving trump. Democrats and republicans needs to hash out a deal both an live with, and put it on his desk. He'll sign it, even if he swears up\down he will veto it.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Chuck Schumer had a much longer speech in which he slammed Trump's lack of leadership in the Trump shutdown. I enjoyed it much more than McConnell's speech, but perhaps that's just me. The jell-o line was just one line out of a great speech that the media decided to highlight.