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Far right dreamland.


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  • Chet Ruminski
    2017-12-23 05:54:54 AM
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    I hear a lot of anti people tossing around flat tax or sales tax claiming fairness and simplicity. But none of them have a clue what it means in reality. The 2016 Federal Budget was 3.54 Trillion Dollars. There were 245 Million adults in 2016. The tax liability would be $14455 per adult. A family of four making $50,000 a year pay would pay a flat of $29,000. A Federal sales tax on a family of four could take all their money. Depending on program cuts the Trump plan could easily move a $60,000 family four income into poverty. The reason the supporting legislators are dripping with praise for Trump is they are identifying all the misery and death foreshadowed by the Trump tax plan as the word of god.
  • Chet Ruminski
    2017-12-23 08:56:54 AM
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: I hear a lot of anti people tossing around flat tax or sales tax claiming fairness and simplicity. But none of them have a clue what it means in reality. The 2016 Federal Budget was 3.54 Trillion Dollars. There were 245 Million adults in 2016. The tax liability would be $14455 per adult. A family of four making $50,000 a year pay would pay a flat of $29,000. A Federal sales tax on a family of four could take all their money. Depending on program cuts the Trump plan could easily move a $60,000 family four income into poverty. The reason the supporting legislators are dripping with praise for Trump is they are identifying all the misery and death foreshadowed by the Trump tax plan as the word of god.

    "Estimates for a tax that would replace revenues from the current federal tax system range from 31 percent to 65 percent."

    taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-...


  • jaredsxtn
    2017-12-23 04:16:00 PM
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    I'm not necessarily in favor of a Federal sales tax, but I wouldn't mind if we instituted a Value Added Tax (VAT). The vast majority of countries already have a VAT and it seems to be working just fine for them. I'd probably prefer a VAT over a sales tax because it guarantees that big businesses can't skirt taxes and it forces everyone to have skin in the game.

    Look at it this way - if we instituted a VAT then the rich billionaire won't be able to "shop" for a state that has a consumer friendly tax system to purchase his multi-million dollar yacht. And it's not like a VAT would necessarily negatively affect the poor and lower class. There are dozens of exemptions in Great Britain's VAT for things like children's food, clothing, etc.

    If we instituted a VAT then we'd also be able to lower income taxes across the board. I'd still be in favor of having a tiered system, but I would be fine with the upper rate being cut if a VAT was passed into law.

  • lonely bird
    2017-12-24 07:29:30 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    I'm not necessarily in favor of a Federal sales tax, but I wouldn't mind if we instituted a Value Added Tax (VAT). The vast majority of countries already have a VAT and it seems to be working just fine for them. I'd probably prefer a VAT over a sales tax because it guarantees that big businesses can't skirt taxes and it forces everyone to have skin in the game.

    Look at it this way - if we instituted a VAT then the rich billionaire won't be able to "shop" for a state that has a consumer friendly tax system to purchase his multi-million dollar yacht. And it's not like a VAT would necessarily negatively affect the poor and lower class. There are dozens of exemptions in Great Britain's VAT for things like children's food, clothing, etc.

    If we instituted a VAT then we'd also be able to lower income taxes across the board. I'd still be in favor of having a tiered system, but I would be fine with the upper rate being cut if a VAT was passed into law.

    Unfortunately, with the power of the wealthy and the right such exemptions would be unlikely to happen.
  • Dutch
    2017-12-24 08:25:56 AM
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    lonely bird Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    I'm not necessarily in favor of a Federal sales tax, but I wouldn't mind if we instituted a Value Added Tax (VAT). The vast majority of countries already have a VAT and it seems to be working just fine for them. I'd probably prefer a VAT over a sales tax because it guarantees that big businesses can't skirt taxes and it forces everyone to have skin in the game.

    Look at it this way - if we instituted a VAT then the rich billionaire won't be able to "shop" for a state that has a consumer friendly tax system to purchase his multi-million dollar yacht. And it's not like a VAT would necessarily negatively affect the poor and lower class. There are dozens of exemptions in Great Britain's VAT for things like children's food, clothing, etc.

    If we instituted a VAT then we'd also be able to lower income taxes across the board. I'd still be in favor of having a tiered system, but I would be fine with the upper rate being cut if a VAT was passed into law.

    Unfortunately, with the power of the wealthy and the right such exemptions would be unlikely to happen.
    Yes the VAT is used in Europe for many years; that's why social services are great; the tax is 21% right now, but is not noticed because you don't see it in your bill/receipt. Even then things are even cheaper than here, like medicines, groceries etc. Sorry this country has a lot to learn, but refuses it.
  • jaredsxtn
    2017-12-27 07:14:21 PM
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    Dutch Wrote: Yes the VAT is used in Europe for many years; that's why social services are great; the tax is 21% right now, but is not noticed because you don't see it in your bill/receipt. Even then things are even cheaper than here, like medicines, groceries etc.

    I'm not saying a VAT is the be all and end all, but it is definitely worthy of debate.

    Prescription drugs are cheaper in European countries because their governments have a single-payer healthcare system and place strict price controls on pharmaceutical drugs. However, that has nothing to do with a VAT.

    Groceries are also comparable in price to the states because most grocery items have a dramatically reduced VAT, or no VAT at all. If we ever got off our ass and passed a VAT here in America then I would hope for the same thing. A VAT shouldn't screw over a single mother trying to feed her children and the vast majority of countries that have a VAT recognize that.

    Dutch Wrote: Sorry this country has a lot to learn, but refuses it.

    Every country has a lot to learn, but the vast majority of countries don't have over 330 million people living in it. And by vast, I mean every country other than China and India. Germany comes in at number 16 and the United Kingdom comes in at number 21, but their populations are dwarfed by the number of people living in the US.

    A country of 330 million people is much more difficult to govern than a country of 81 million (Germany). Not just that, but this country of 330 million people is comprised of individuals of all races and ethnicity's while most European countries are comprised of a cultural majority with a minority of immigrants that are often subjected to second and third-class status.

    That's all I'm trying to get across. We live in a frustratingly complex world.

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