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What do Muslims think?


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    Schmidt Wrote:

    The same thing can be said for the Bible. I can cheery pick worse verses than anything you have highlighted above when it comes to slavery, concubines, rape, murder, lying (Trump would never last), adultery, blasphemy and women. When I show these to Christians they can show me alternative verses that contradict those. Okay...believe what you want to believe, but don't tell me it is "God's word".

    Ahem!

    this is why, in general, the bible, has no significant value for me. Put any two people in the same room, both appearing to agree 100% on every possible subject, and with 5 minutes they will be disagreeing on the meaning of bible verses. Leave them longer, they will start claiming that the other is going to burn in hell for not understanding the bible correctly. I bet everything I have, this scenario is true 100% of the time. No two people will ever fully agree on religious issues\God's intent\etc.

    If there is a God, it clear God's intent has never been revealed.

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    I was 20 when W invaded Iraq. I’ve lost numerous friends in both the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts and lost even more to mental illness brought about by their multiple tours of duty because our President and Congress were too chickenshit to have a draft.

    Don’t give me that bullshit about not being old enough. It was my generation that fought and died in those pointless and unwinnable wars, or should I say conflicts, because declaring war would have forced congress to actually pay for it.

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    So the only thing you can argue regarding my previous post is your age? Well done sir. I was wrong about your age. Right about everything else.

    I never expected to shift your perspective on these topics but I did hope that by engaging in debate on subjects you're not familiar with, it would at least lead you to research before responding. That's what makes debates educational. Go in empty headed and come out with new knowledge. I can't imagine what would happen if you discovered the Islam/Nazi relationship. Your head might explode. For a mod, I expected more from you.

    Start with this:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between...

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mount...

    barnesandnoble.com/w/islam-and-nazi-ger...

    Overview

    Islam and Nazi Germany's War by David Motadel

    In the most crucial phase of the Second World War, German troops, fighting in regions as far apart as the Sahara and the Caucasus, confronted the Allies across lands largely populated by Muslims. Nazi officials saw Islam as a powerful force with the same enemies as Germany: the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and the Jews. Islam and Nazi Germany’s War is the first comprehensive account of Berlin’s remarkably ambitious attempts to build an alliance with the Islamic world.

    Drawing on archival research in three continents, David Motadel explains how German officials tried to promote the Third Reich as a patron of Islam. He explores Berlin’s policies and propaganda in the Muslim war zones, and the extensive work that authorities undertook for the recruitment, spiritual care, and ideological indoctrination of tens of thousands of Muslim volunteers who fought in the Wehrmacht and the SS.

    Islam and Nazi Germany’s War reveals how German troops on the ground in North Africa, the Balkans, and the Eastern front engaged with diverse Muslim populations, including Muslim Roma and Jewish converts to Islam. Combining measured argument with a masterly handling of detail, it illuminates the profound impact of the Second World War on Muslims around the world and provides a new understanding of the politics of religion in the bloodiest conflict of the twentieth century.

    And the left repeatedly slanders the right by calling anyone who doesn't agree, a Nazi. Meanwhile...

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    I don't know where you get all such crazy stuff from. Hitler was an Catholic; he at first wanted to become a Priest. Thus he certainly did not like Muslims. I survived WWII in Europe; you probably did not; I lived there during and after WWII. Thus stop your nonsense.
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    sigh. another islam is evil/not a religion of peace screed.

    the jews flourished under islamic rule in various places. jews were also persecuted under islamic rule. the same applies regarding christians ruling over jews.

    blah, blah, blah.

    I suggest reading Irshad Manji's "The Trouble with Islam".

    the bottom line devolves to this: man attempts to use the imprimatur of deity to justify his actions and interactions with others.

    the torah, the Bible, the q'uran were no more written by god or inspired by god than any other book. man appears to be hard-wired to seek and use supernatural explanations for why good people get hurt or die, why crops fail, why babies are sometimes born with birth defects, why man wars against man. god has nothing to do with it. some is simply the crapshoot we call life. some is man and his inability to accept that all man is part of nature and every man has a right to exist. nothing is "unclean". however things done or said by man may cause damage. that is where the secular law comes into play.

    those who use the cloak of religion and Gott mit uns/inshallah to justify their violent political actions must be combated. but it ain't about a particular religion is or isn't peaceful. it is about violent man.

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    RedPillChoke Wrote:

    So the only thing you can argue regarding my previous post is your age? Well done sir. I was wrong about your age. Right about everything else.

    Except you weren't.

    Here's the thing. I can't stand racists. And I especially can't stand racists who feign they are simply wanting to have an intellectual discussion about why Muslims are such terrible human beings.

    All you're doing is copying and pasting Wikipedia pages and sharing blogs that back up your preconceived beliefs. That is not having an intellectual discussion; it's copying and pasting Wikipedia pages and sharing blogs that back up your preconceived beliefs.

    There's no way you'll ever admit that you have Islamophobia, so there is no point in conversing with you any longer. As with all other right wing trolls that find our site - you will eventually be forgotten about and another one will replace you sometime in the future. You aren't the first Islamaphobe on this site and you certainly won't be the last. Unfortunately, there are many people just like you out there.


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    Dutch Wrote: I don't know where you get all such crazy stuff from. Hitler was an Catholic; he at first wanted to become a Priest. Thus he certainly did not like Muslims. I survived WWII in Europe; you probably did not; I lived there during and after WWII. Thus stop your nonsense.

    Cognitive dissonance at work. This is going to be a tough one. "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness" - Adolf Hitler "

    This "exchange" occurred when Hitler received Saudi Arabian ruler Ibn Saud’s special envoy, Khalid al-Hud al-Gargani.[7] Earlier in this meeting Hitler noted that one of the three reasons why Nazi Germany had warm sympathies for the Arabs was:

    … because we were jointly fighting the Jews. This led him to discuss Palestine and the conditions there, and he then stated that he himself would not rest until the last Jew had left Germany. Kalid al Hud observed that the Prophet Mohammed … had acted the same way. He had driven the Jews out of Arabia….[8]

    These are not the words of a "Christian" or Catholic Hitler. Pure myth.

    If the left can't blame WW2 on Christianity, the whole narrative falls a part. I urge you to read the links I provided previously. Hitler indeed had a warm sympathy for Muslims. Germany controlled large swaths of Islamic territory in N. Africa and spent a tremendous effort seducing and wooing Islam. Germany had made many concessions for Islam and condemned the SS and the Wehrmacht from any type of persecution what-so-ever. Yes, there were Islamic POWs and many Muslims were indeed killed by the SS but this shouldn't be confused with "Hitler's Muslims". On the southern fringes of the Soviet Union, German killing squads had difficulty distinguishing Muslims from Jews. Despite its minimal administrative involvement with local Muslims, the Wehrmacht was in daily contact with the coastal population of N Africa between 1941 and 1943, in Tunisia, Libya, and Western Egypt. The army command made significant efforts to avoid alienating Muslims. The German propaganda in N Africa and the Middle East promoted a clear image of the third Reich as a friend of Islam.

    You have been redpilled. Do what you will with this knowledge.

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    lonely bird Wrote:

    sigh. another islam is evil/not a religion of peace screed.

    the jews flourished under islamic rule in various places. jews were also persecuted under islamic rule. the same applies regarding christians ruling over jews.

    blah, blah, blah.

    I suggest reading Irshad Manji's "The Trouble with Islam".

    the bottom line devolves to this: man attempts to use the imprimatur of deity to justify his actions and interactions with others.

    the torah, the Bible, the q'uran were no more written by god or inspired by god than any other book. man appears to be hard-wired to seek and use supernatural explanations for why good people get hurt or die, why crops fail, why babies are sometimes born with birth defects, why man wars against man. god has nothing to do with it. some is simply the crapshoot we call life. some is man and his inability to accept that all man is part of nature and every man has a right to exist. nothing is "unclean". however things done or said by man may cause damage. that is where the secular law comes into play.

    those who use the cloak of religion and Gott mit uns/inshallah to justify their violent political actions must be combated. but it ain't about a particular religion is or isn't peaceful. it is about violent man.

    I agree with the last paragraph but I need to interject why Jews and Christians "survived" in Muslims lands. It's called dhimmitude.

    Dhimmi

    A is a historical term referring to non-Muslim living in an Islamic state with legal protection. The word literally means "protected person." According to scholars, dhimmis had their rights fully protected in their communities, but as citizens in the Islamic state, had certain restrictions, and it was obligatory for them to pay the jizya tax, which complemented the zakat, or alms, paid by the Muslim.

    It's akin to a mafia protection fee or known as the Jizya tax. It was custom for a Christian or Jew to have their beard pulled when they pay their tax too btw. A way to remind them of their second class citizenship. But I find a common theme among Liberals when engaging in discussions about Islam. "All religions are bad so why are you just picking on Islam". I suppose I too would be reluctant to be persuaded to take notice of Christianity if someone was yelling "Read the bible! the violence therein is not compatible with Western civilization" "Christianity is trying to take over the world and usurp governments" My response would most likely be "meh" and apathetic. That's what's happening with Islamic apologists. I get it, I really do. It's apathy. So how does one get around this? By showing you Islam isn't Christianity 2.0 and they really are trying to usurp governments. By showing you you're defending an ideology that does NOT have Kaafir's best interest. By showing you the life of their prophet and what it means to emulate Muhammad. By trying to put things in perspective. Everyone hates Christianity so much that they're willing to use "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" as the impetus behind their apologetic stance. Very dangerous.

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    I have enjoyed reading the last dozen posts. It's an exchange we don't always see here. Interesting.

    I have to question how you find yourself intent on making a point but not adding to any of the dozens of topics a couple of clicks away.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    TJ Wrote:

    I have enjoyed reading the last dozen posts. It's an exchange we don't always see here. Interesting.

    I have to question how you find yourself intent on making a point but not adding to any of the dozens of topics a couple of clicks away.

    This guy is legit insane. He somehow found me on Facebook and I had to report him after he threatened to kill me.
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    So sorry that you had that happen. I have enjoyed reading the exchanges though. Perhaps he can take his mission to another place.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    TJ Wrote:

    I have enjoyed reading the last dozen posts. It's an exchange we don't always see here. Interesting.

    I have to question how you find yourself intent on making a point but not adding to any of the dozens of topics a couple of clicks away.

    This guy is legit insane. He somehow found me on Facebook and I had to report him after he threatened to kill me.
    Yes Jared, you are correct; he's nuts.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Banned Member Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote:

    sigh. another islam is evil/not a religion of peace screed.

    the jews flourished under islamic rule in various places. jews were also persecuted under islamic rule. the same applies regarding christians ruling over jews.

    blah, blah, blah.

    I suggest reading Irshad Manji's "The Trouble with Islam".

    the bottom line devolves to this: man attempts to use the imprimatur of deity to justify his actions and interactions with others.

    the torah, the Bible, the q'uran were no more written by god or inspired by god than any other book. man appears to be hard-wired to seek and use supernatural explanations for why good people get hurt or die, why crops fail, why babies are sometimes born with birth defects, why man wars against man. god has nothing to do with it. some is simply the crapshoot we call life. some is man and his inability to accept that all man is part of nature and every man has a right to exist. nothing is "unclean". however things done or said by man may cause damage. that is where the secular law comes into play.

    those who use the cloak of religion and Gott mit uns/inshallah to justify their violent political actions must be combated. but it ain't about a particular religion is or isn't peaceful. it is about violent man.

    I agree with the last paragraph but I need to interject why Jews and Christians "survived" in Muslims lands. It's called dhimmitude.

    Dhimmi

    A is a historical term referring to non-Muslim living in an Islamic state with legal protection. The word literally means "protected person." According to scholars, dhimmis had their rights fully protected in their communities, but as citizens in the Islamic state, had certain restrictions, and it was obligatory for them to pay the jizya tax, which complemented the zakat, or alms, paid by the Muslim.

    It's akin to a mafia protection fee or known as the Jizya tax. It was custom for a Christian or Jew to have their beard pulled when they pay their tax too btw. A way to remind them of their second class citizenship. But I find a common theme among Liberals when engaging in discussions about Islam. "All religions are bad so why are you just picking on Islam". I suppose I too would be reluctant to be persuaded to take notice of Christianity if someone was yelling "Read the bible! the violence therein is not compatible with Western civilization" "Christianity is trying to take over the world and usurp governments" My response would most likely be "meh" and apathetic. That's what's happening with Islamic apologists. I get it, I really do. It's apathy. So how does one get around this? By showing you Islam isn't Christianity 2.0 and they really are trying to usurp governments. By showing you you're defending an ideology that does NOT have Kaafir's best interest. By showing you the life of their prophet and what it means to emulate Muhammad. By trying to put things in perspective. Everyone hates Christianity so much that they're willing to use "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" as the impetus behind their apologetic stance. Very dangerous.

    First off, I am very aware of dhimmitude. Secondly, read up on dominionism in this country. If you think that there are not “Christians” seeking power including the power of the state over others you are a fool. Third, Christianity most certainly has been used as rationality and justification for violent political acts. Gott Mit Uns is precisely such justification. Deity is always used by groups seeking political power. The Torah was written as such justification. The Q’uran was written as a method of consolidating political power and military victory through claims of deity. Christianity used the claim of Christ Killers against Jews. They drove Jews out of certain trades forcing them into banking.

    Please do us all a favor and don’t try to claim yourself a new Jeremiah. You are not. You and those like you on either side are why wars using religious justification have gone on for centuries.