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In the interest of Democratic Unity.

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  • Chet Ruminski
    2017-10-17 11:25:47 PM
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    The Bernie or Busters had very little to do with Hillary losing the election. It is doing nothing for building a Democratic win by fostering hostilities about an insignificant fact. The amount of spending by the the campaign was predicated on Hillary winning and the spending was more rewarding to favorite states than to secure votes in soft states. The amount of spending in solid blue states was almost astronomical compared to spending in states not guaranteed . There was frantic spending at the end to make up for the oversight when it was realized that the race was closer than ever expected. Some key states up to that time had not had even one visit. The idea that the election was stolen from Hillary means that those supporters are satisfied with that platform. A realization that that platform lost will enable the party to unify and build for the next elections. Anything else will guarantee Republican victories.

    In the latest Newsweek Story reporting on reasons for Hillary losing Bernie supporters are not even mentioned out of a list of 17 including Barrack Obama, the DNC and her own Staff.

    One of the biggest mistakes made was ignoring the Bradley effect. I said on here that people were lying to the pollsters because they were to embarrassed to say they were supporting Trump.

    There should not be such a vehement division in the Democratic Party. There should be absolutely nothing that causes diametrically opposing sides when it comes to the lower classes and working people.

    I think it is time to unite the party, United We Stand.

  • jaredsxtn
    2017-10-18 09:46:24 AM
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    This is a rather misleading title considering it has nothing to do with Democratic unity at all - it's just another sad attempt to try to convince people that Bernie or busters aren't to blame for Donald's election.

    I have shown on repeated occasions how Bernie voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin who crossed the aisle and voted for Donald in the general election gave him more than enough votes to carry those three states and hand the Presidency to Donald over the will of the American people.

    You will never accept that, but that is a cold, hard FACT.

    Michigan: Sanders primary voters who voted for Trump - 47,915; Trump's margin of victory - 10,704

    Pennsylvania: Sanders primary voters who voted for Trump - 117,100; Trump's margin of victory - 44,292

    Wisconsin: Sanders primary voters who voted for Trump - 51,317; Trump's margin of victory - 22,748

    Source: 2016 National Popular Vote Tracker, U.S. Election Atlas, Brian Schaffner

    If Bernie or busters simply stayed home in November then we would all be talking about President Clinton's Administration and not Donald's.

    Why Bernie or busters continue to refuse to accept any responsibility for Donald being President defies all logic, but then again Bernie or busters never had much logic to begin with. They don't give a damn about "united we stand," they only care about "my way or the highway" and they proved that in 2016.

    Now if they somehow wake up one day and accept that governing a country of over 300 million people is just a wee bit more complicated than they've convinced themselves and that getting 80% of something is better than 0% then I would love to have them back, but I don't ever see that happening. What I see happening is them continuing to blame any and everyone other than themselves for everything under the sun.

  • wwjd
    2017-10-19 09:20:16 AM
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    What issues are on the table for compromise, and what issues are 'All or nothing'

    Most issues should be on the table for some level of compromise, but some issues are 'All or nothing'

    A good example is the civil rights movement. It would not have been acceptable to reach a compromise of allowing only 5 black people to sit at the front of the bus, but after that, the rest need to go to the back. From the white majority perspective, it would have been fair and reasonable offer. Such a compromise was likely offered to the back community, but unanimously rejected because it still was about racial oppression, with the ropes around their necks slightly less tight.

    What issues rise to that level, what what issues do not?

  • TJ
    2017-10-19 12:37:53 PM
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    It is all perspective. I don't blame Bernie supporters but it fits your agenda. I personally think the party has given zero attention to the "difficult to win" states and/or their voters. Laziness or at least an unwillingness to give extra effort. That is the heart of the problem. We should stop trying to blame someone and identify the needed path and start immediately. You lost in '16 and you're losing every single day when not trying anything new.

    Don't worry about the constant losing. You wear it well. (Sarcasm)

  • jaredsxtn
    2017-10-19 01:00:28 PM
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    My only agenda is getting common sense and realistic thinking back into the Democratic Party discourse. A Presidential candidate who promises that if the voters elect him then everyone will get "free healthcare, free college, free this and free that" is a guaranteed loser.

    Local, state, and Federal candidates who promise the world without being honest about how the world will be paid for are guaranteed losers, especially in purple and center-right states.

    So we can keep digging our heads in the sand and continue the infighting between the idealistic demagogues who promise everything for free! and the rationalists who think they are sabotaging any chance we ever have of winning at the national level again, or we can learn to accept that governing a nation of 330 million people is complicated. Which one is it, Bernie or busters?

    I would love to get Bernie or busters back in the rationally thinking camp, but they have shown zero willingness to think rationally. It's all "trust me, it'll all work out if we only elect this one guy. He'll make all of our lives so much better!"

    I call bullshit.

  • jaredsxtn
    2017-10-19 01:05:41 PM
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    TJ Wrote: Don't worry about the constant losing. You wear it well. (Sarcasm)

    All politics is local, TJ.

    Democrats hold a solid majority in both houses of state government, the governors office, and the mayor's office in my state and city.

    To be honest, we're winning and winning bigly out here. My local and state government are passing things liberals in other states could only dream of.

    Come out to Oregon. It's like Donald isn't even President out here.

    That's my overall point. What works here in Portland and the state of Oregon stands zero chance of ever becoming a reality in Kentucky or Texas. That's why Bernie or busters "my way or the highway" mentality is a guaranteed loser for Democrats at the national level.

  • TJ
    2017-11-11 07:06:46 AM
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    This was on Charlie Rose. The Democratic party is out of touch with the common American. Maybe some will say we are just fine and all is well. The real problems run deep. Without better representation we will not proceed enough. Our opponents are at their worst daily. We have a long way to go.

    m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=101...

  • Schmidt
    2017-11-12 08:12:36 AM
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    TJ Wrote:

    This was on Charlie Rose. The Democratic party is out of touch with the common American. Maybe some will say we are just fine and all is well. The real problems run deep. Without better representation we will not proceed enough. Our opponents are at their worst daily. We have a long way to go.

    m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=101...

    I would ask Charlie Rose to define the "common American". It's kind of like the Blind men and an elephant fable asking each blind man to define the elephant by touching one part of him. Each of us is somewhat unique, both genetically and by life's experiences. And we each look upon the world differently.

    I would challenge Rose to come up with a list of things that are common to all Americans from our ethnicities to our race to our religious beliefs to our age and gender differences to our education to our social and political beliefs. We can herald our diversity as a strength, but it is also what divides us into tribes.

    And let's face it, if there is one thing that we seem to have more in common is that we are low information voters driven more by our emotions. We live in our respective fantasy world bubbles or La La Lands when it comes to thinking critically about how our diversity can be a strength. We don't so much share each others values as we defend and protect our own tribal worldviews no matter how outside of the mainstream.

    This is not new. Each generation of Americans has experienced divisive issues. I graduated from high school in 1964 and college in 1968 a very tumultuous period in America's past, much more so than the advent of the Trump era (although the book is still not closed on Trumpism).

    I recently read an interesting article by Kurt Anderson in the Atlantic, How America Lost Its Mind.

    It's a rather long article, and you don't have to read the entire long history of how our worldviews evolved from the 1960s to the Trump era, but I certainly can relate to it. If I were to try define the "common American" I would start by reading Anderson's article. He finishes with a discussion of Trumpism, which in itself means different things to different people.

    To summarize, we believe what we want to believe. Fantasy Land, as he calls it, is becoming more and more the reality that is common to our thinking. It puts into perspective of how America lost its mind in electing Trump.

  • Dutch
    2017-11-12 08:25:02 AM
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    Yes, as I said many times "This is la la land" and is getting worse by the day. Common sense is nowhere to be found. Constitutions are good for "lawyers" but not for running an country properly with thought out proper laws and rules. Often I think we live here still in 1800 related to on our government works.

    Yes America lost its mind

  • Schmidt
    2017-11-12 09:35:45 AM
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    Dutch, when you get time, you should read Anderson's article. It does have a historical element of American culture and how it evolved from the 60s to what it is today. And to be fair, the "human animal" has a dark side, whether it is an American or a European or a Chinese. Donald Trump was more adept at tapping into that dark side, but so did certain European demagogues from the past...and now the present as well. It could happen "over there" as well as here.

    It has less to do with our Constitution and more to do with our education...the fact that people are largely ignorant of how government works and take it for granted until something affects them directly.

  • TJ
    2017-11-12 11:27:33 AM
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    Is the Oct. 17 Post from Chet his last ? I hope he is doing well and not too discouraged by those who are not wanting to welcome particular opposing views. I personally want us to expand our own base for more contributions.
  • Dockadams
    2017-11-12 12:34:50 PM
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    The characters are worn off on my keyboard, which one is the delete key?
  • Schmidt
    2017-11-12 05:04:12 PM
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    ThinkProgress: 60,000 people march in massive Nazi rally in Poland

    Right-wing racists flew in from Slovakia, Hungary, and Spain to join tens of thousands of Poles at a white supremacist rally in Warsaw on Saturday where marchers bore signs with messages like “Europe Will Be White” and “Clean Blood.”

    Reporters on hand said the crowd numbered roughly 60,000, citing police estimates. A polish neo-nazi group called The Radical Camp, borrowing its name from a 1930s fascist movement in the country, organized the march.

    Europe has is share of white nationalists.

    This is off topic for sure, but I wanted to make the point that this movement is not just confined to Americans.

  • jaredsxtn
    2017-11-12 06:58:30 PM
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    TJ Wrote: This was on Charlie Rose. The Democratic party is out of touch with the common American. Maybe some will say we are just fine and all is well. The real problems run deep. Without better representation we will not proceed enough. Our opponents are at their worst daily. We have a long way to go.

    A couple things here.

    One - Charlie Rose didn't say this; Republican columnist David Brooks did.

    Two - I watched this full episode the other day (I watch all episodes of Charlie Rose) and the link you posted chopped up his greater point and cherry picked thirty seconds of a minutes long statement.

    I have a lot of respect for David Brooks and what he was saying is that a certain segment of the Democratic Party has gone into their bubbles in the same way certain segments of the Republican Party have. His point was that when there is a segment of the population that feels left behind they are more susceptible to voting for demagogues.

    These chopped up 10-30 second clips that completely misrepresent what someone says in order to reinforce peoples preconceived beliefs are going to be the bane of our existence as a society. I encourage you to watch the entire interview Charlie Rose held with David Brooks. It is longer than 30 seconds, but you'll learn so much more about his philosophies. I don't always agree with him, but he's a very intelligent person who isn't predisposed to scare tactics and conspiracy theories.

  • Dutch
    2017-11-13 08:36:45 AM
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    ThinkProgress: 60,000 people march in massive Nazi rally in Poland

    Right-wing racists flew in from Slovakia, Hungary, and Spain to join tens of thousands of Poles at a white supremacist rally in Warsaw on Saturday where marchers bore signs with messages like “Europe Will Be White” and “Clean Blood.”

    Reporters on hand said the crowd numbered roughly 60,000, citing police estimates. A polish neo-nazi group called The Radical Camp, borrowing its name from a 1930s fascist movement in the country, organized the march.

    Europe has is share of white nationalists.

    This is off topic for sure, but I wanted to make the point that this movement is not just confined to Americans.

    I absolutely am flabbergasted ; considering the horrors done by the Nazi's in Poland during WWII this looks like "fake news". Unbelievable!

    But yeah; it is likely the new generation. Poland in fact always has been in the "middle" between Western Europe and Russia, so they will always be the "Punching ball" . In the Netherlands they don't like the Poles at all; they steal as crazy and don't fit in with the Dutch mentality nor society.

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