Forum Thread

Recognize value of human life.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    I think it is too easy to dissasociate the reality of the loss of human life with the results of legislation and other relative policy and acttions. Just to point out the casual disregard for human life stories like this were common after the introduction of the AR15 in Viet Nam and each one cost a soldier his life. Casually accepted then and now with denial of health care caused deaths. Human life needs to be made a concern. ""This laborious process left troops on the battlefield completely defenseless, and there were numerous reports of soldiers being found dead after a gunfight with their M16 disassembled beside them. """" m.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles...l
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    If a person goes off to fight Amerika's wars, we would like to think that they have the best equipment available to protect and defend themselves. e.g., Iraq, non armored hummers in a war zone, that was dumb. No body armor or not enough of it, that was dumb too. 1970's model gasoline tankers that crawled at 25 m.p.h. and got blown up, that was dumb too. There's lots of examples of Amerika not giving the troops on the front lines of battle shitty equipment to work with.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Absolutely right Doc. They expect soldiers to take it. They make life and death decisions not factoring in the death part. Decide between nighttime and daytime air raids knowing that daytime involves thousands more casualties but daytime has a higher rate of target destruction in spite of increased deaths.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: I think it is too easy to dissasociate the reality of the loss of human life with the results of legislation and other relative policy and acttions. Just to point out the casual disregard for human life stories like this were common after the introduction of the AR15 in Viet Nam and each one cost a soldier his life.

    Can I point out the fact that automatic guns were invented long before Vietnam without coming across as casually disregarding the loss of American lives in that unnecessary conflict?

    Automatic guns were invented in 1862. That is almost 100 years to the day before American soldiers stepped foot in Vietnam.

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Casually accepted then and now with denial of health care caused deaths. Human life needs to be made a concern. ""This laborious process left troops on the battlefield completely defenseless, and there were numerous reports of soldiers being found dead after a gunfight with their M16 disassembled beside them. """" m.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles...l

    What does the invention of the machine gun have to do with healthcare?

    I agree that human life needs to be made a concern, but high powered guns and healthcare for all are two entirely different things.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    I hate ugly weapons but not in the same universe of importance as compared to the healthcare crisis.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: I think it is too easy to dissasociate the reality of the loss of human life with the results of legislation and other relative policy and acttions. Just to point out the casual disregard for human life stories like this were common after the introduction of the AR15 in Viet Nam and each one cost a soldier his life.

    Can I point out the fact that automatic guns were invented long before Vietnam without coming across as casually disregarding the loss of American lives in that unnecessary conflict?

    Automatic guns were invented in 1862. That is almost 100 years to the day before American soldiers stepped foot in Vietnam.

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Casually accepted then and now with denial of health care caused deaths. Human life needs to be made a concern. ""This laborious process left troops on the battlefield completely defenseless, and there were numerous reports of soldiers being found dead after a gunfight with their M16 disassembled beside them. """" m.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles...l

    What does the invention of the machine gun have to do with healthcare? Absolutely nothing, too bad you missed the point.

    I agree that human life needs to be made a concern, but high powered guns and healthcare for all are two entirely different things.

    Try and grasp the subject and then engage it. I was not announcing the machine gun, I was pointing out that the AR15 was put into service and it was less than a dependable rifle. But people that compromise and incrementalism did not want to spend anymore money to make the gun deserving of our soldiers. The AR15 being not 100 % reliable goes right along with your attitude of doing the best that can be done all the while disregarding that anything less than 100 % healthcare is early death and more suffering for poor people. A certain group of people benefit and then that makes it alright. Do you get it now or is it to bothersome to be concerned that more suffering and early death is the result of compromising healthcare. Coverage is not care. Far more people have coverage than have care.

    jaredsxtn said: "What does the invention of the machine gun have to do with healthcare?

    I agree that human life needs to be made a concern, but high powered guns and healthcare for all are two entirely different things." The point is the disregard for human life and suffering, can't you understand that? I have been trying to avoid responding to your subjective declarations but then you go completely off the charts with this post that has nothing to do about anything other than trying to criticize a post where I am analogizing lack of concern for human life in how they presented firearms and how the same lack of concern falls over into health care/coverage and parading health coverage as health care.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but this is a website that welcomes dialogue. If you can't handle that then don't participate in the forums.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote: I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but this is a website that welcomes dialogue. If you can't handle that then don't participate in the forums.
    I started the dialog and then you subverted the point. I was making a point about the careless attitude toward life, death and suffering and then you subverted it to a nonsensical comparison to machine guns. It seems to me that you are purposely disrupting.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote: I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but this is a website that welcomes dialogue. If you can't handle that then don't participate in the forums.
    I started the dialog and then you subverted the point. I was making a point about the careless attitude toward life, death and suffering and then you subverted it to a nonsensical comparison to machine guns. It seems to me that you are purposely disrupting.
    Chet, do you really think that politicians give a damn when they send our people off to war? It's not their sons and daughters doing the dirty work. It's the same with any other thing in Amerika, the poor usually get the short end of the stick, including but not limited to healthcare.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dockadams Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote: I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but this is a website that welcomes dialogue. If you can't handle that then don't participate in the forums.
    I started the dialog and then you subverted the point. I was making a point about the careless attitude toward life, death and suffering and then you subverted it to a nonsensical comparison to machine guns. It seems to me that you are purposely disrupting.
    Chet, do you really think that politicians give a damn when they send our people off to war? It's not their sons and daughters doing the dirty work. It's the same with any other thing in Amerika, the poor usually get the short end of the stick, including but not limited to healthcare.
    Exactly the case Dockadams. And my point is to flush that attitude out for the world to see. Not making excuses about judicial appointments or seats in Congress. I've been calling it out for 60 years. If people don't care about the pain and suffering of poor people then say it. It's not going to get past me. Protecting status quo conditions that narrowly favor because of budgetary concerns people more well off while denying people in dire need is the calloused attitude that is putting our government in limbo. Absent a humanitarian objective self interest becomes the mitivation. Self interest is narrow minded and destructive. It is creeping right wing philosophy.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dockadams Wrote: Chet, do you really think that politicians give a damn when they send our people off to war? It's not their sons and daughters doing the dirty work. It's the same with any other thing in Amerika, the poor usually get the short end of the stick, including but not limited to healthcare.

    "When the rich wage war it's the poor who die."

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: I started the dialog and then you subverted the point. I was making a point about the careless attitude toward life, death and suffering and then you subverted it to a nonsensical comparison to machine guns. It seems to me that you are purposely disrupting.

    All I did was point out that machine guns and healthcare are two entirely different things.

    I did so because you spent the vast majority of your thread talking about machine guns and then casually switched to healthcare. I'd hardly call that a nonsensical comparison considering I was responding to your own words.

    I can't infer what you meant to say. All I can do is read what you actually write and respond to those words. It's impossible to know what someone meant to say in a written forum.

    So if you want to say something then say it and stop expecting people to understand how your brain works. Please stop getting upset when someone discusses the actual words you write.

    It's not personal. This is a discussion site that encourages debate and dialogue. If you want to talk to yourself then start a journal.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: I started the dialog and then you subverted the point. I was making a point about the careless attitude toward life, death and suffering and then you subverted it to a nonsensical comparison to machine guns. It seems to me that you are purposely disrupting.

    All I did was point out that machine guns and healthcare are two entirely different things.

    I did so because you spent the vast majority of your thread talking about machine guns and then casually switched to healthcare. I'd hardly call that a nonsensical comparison considering I was responding to your own words.

    I can't infer what you meant to say. All I can do is read what you actually write and respond to those words. It's impossible to know what someone meant to say in a written forum.

    So if you want to say something then say it and stop expecting people to understand how your brain works. Please stop getting upset when someone discusses the actual words you write.

    It's not personal. This is a discussion site that encourages debate and dialogue. If you want to talk to yourself then start a journal.

    I very clearly associated the scandal of the AR15 to the disregard for human life with this lead in introduction:

    "Just to point out the casual disregard for human life stories like this were common after the introduction of the AR15 in Viet Nam and each one cost a soldier his life." It was relative to the point that people disassociate human death and suffering when cost becomes a factor. It is pertinent to health care because death and suffering are omitted from the conversation. Insurance coverage and care are used as the same condition when in fact that is hardly ever the case. Many soldiers died tragically because known defective weapons were issued. Many insured individuals tragically can't use insurance because of limitations of healthcare covaerage. There are multiple tragic scenarios that are ignored and that is wrong. If people can't afford to use it then they must be suffering and dying. I don't know if there are any numbers but I will look.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I very clearly associated the scandal of the AR15 to the disregard for human life with this lead in introduction:

    "Just to point out the casual disregard for human life stories like this were common after the introduction of the AR15 in Viet Nam and each one cost a soldier his life." It was relative to the point that people disassociate human death and suffering when cost becomes a factor. It is pertinent to health care because death and suffering are omitted from the conversation.

    Then why didn't you say that?! Why are you mad at me for responding to your exact words?

    Your posts don't ever seem to make sense. It's like you're thinking out loud and expect everyone to understand what the hell you're talking about.

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Insurance coverage and care are used as the same condition when in fact that is hardly ever the case. Many soldiers died tragically because known defective weapons were issued. Many insured individuals tragically can't use insurance because of limitations of healthcare covaerage. There are multiple tragic scenarios that are ignored and that is wrong. If people can't afford to use it then they must be suffering and dying. I don't know if there are any numbers but I will look.

    Tens of thousands of Americans died because they were sent off to a far off land to fight in a stupid war. Why do you care what weapons they used?

    Millions of Americans who were denied healthcare now have it. It may not be the best care in the world, but at least they have more access to that care than they used to.

    You know who wanted to give people care that they desperately needed? Your nemesis Hillary Clinton.

    Now we have to play defense instead of building on the progress Obama made. Thanks, Bernie or busters. I hope it was worth it.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I very clearly associated the scandal of the AR15 to the disregard for human life with this lead in introduction:

    "Just to point out the casual disregard for human life stories like this were common after the introduction of the AR15 in Viet Nam and each one cost a soldier his life." It was relative to the point that people disassociate human death and suffering when cost becomes a factor. It is pertinent to health care because death and suffering are omitted from the conversation.

    Then why didn't you say that?! Why are you mad at me for responding to your exact words?

    Your posts don't ever seem to make sense. It's like you're thinking out loud and expect everyone to understand what the hell you're talking about.

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Insurance coverage and care are used as the same condition when in fact that is hardly ever the case. Many soldiers died tragically because known defective weapons were issued. Many insured individuals tragically can't use insurance because of limitations of healthcare covaerage. There are multiple tragic scenarios that are ignored and that is wrong. If people can't afford to use it then they must be suffering and dying. I don't know if there are any numbers but I will look.

    Tens of thousands of Americans died because they were sent off to a far off land to fight in a stupid war. Why do you care what weapons they used?

    Millions of Americans who were denied healthcare now have it. It may not be the best care in the world, but at least they have more access to that care than they used to.

    You know who wanted to give people care that they desperately needed? Your nemesis Hillary Clinton.

    Now we have to play defense instead of building on the progress Obama made. Thanks, Bernie or busters. I hope it was worth it.

    It was never about what kind of gun. It is about the lack of consideration for human life. But I just realized that taking care of preexisting conditions is going to make health insurance an astronomically high cost that can only be addressed by single payer health insurance. The only way to make it work will be a special department of the government that is health care. There can only be one all inclusive plan or else there can be no coverage at all. Pre existing condition coverage will be so expensive that different benefit plans will eliminate 80% of earning incomes. Trying to patch Obama care will make it too expensive. It will have to be socialized or abandoned completely.