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The rise of the Antifa movement

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Peter Beinbert, The Atlantic, September 2017: The Rise of the Violent Left

    "Antifa" is short for anti-fascist. I have been observing this trend for a while during the Obama presidency, but now under Trump this radical movement has had explosive growth. Many of us have noted "fascist tendencies" in much of the Trump agenda. What is unique about this movement is their actions condone violence. Rather than voting at the ballot box, they want more visible direct action.

    The article leads off with their planned disruption of the annual Republican participation in a parade in Portland Oregon by the Direct Action Alliance declaring "Nazi's will not march through Portland unopposed". Their threats worked. The parade was cancelled. Jared can probably comment more on that, but the article covers similar actions across the United States in which this movement wants to stop right wing groups from expressing their First Amendment rights. This is not what our democracy is about...silencing the "other" through threats of violence.

    Just like their nationalist counterparts in the Trump base of radical supporters, these violent leftists are equally as scary because many essentially are also anti-establishment anarchists...or at least anti-Democratic Party. They hate just as much as their opponents on the right hate.

    This what I worry about our society becoming more violent. If these people on both sides would only express their frustrations at the ballot box instead of spilling blood on our streets we would be okay. Oh one side did and they elected Trump while the other side made protest votes for Jill Stein.

    It's okay to march with banners. It's not okay to do physical harm on the marchers no matter how much you disagree.

    Read the article and comment...

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt; sorry I've got other thoughts. It is an "normal development" if you have only a two party system which become more extreme over time, because of an society which consist of super powerful rich and no influence of the "middle" as well plenty of lower classes. My guess is this will eventually end up in an civil war (or military coup?) as is the case in any "banana republic" I did mention many times that our Constitution and its only few Amendments are at fault and has never caught up with the times. Like voting laws, gun laws, no vetting of Presidents and more of these antiquated anomalies.

    Thus we will just move slowly but surely in an Venezuela direction because of our self inflicted wounds. Sorry to say that the DNC power is eroding because of the GOP push to get more power etc. for instance via the media ( Fox, Breitbard, Sinclair, Trump TV etc.) while the DNC does not even has a message, let alone protected itself from hacking.

    Thus I'm not very positive that there is an peaceful solution; I'm not amazed that both sides are becoming more fanatic. Just look at the types of Trump, Miller, Bannon as well the evangelical nuthead invited at Bill Maher, then you know enough.

    Yes we are as a matter of fact back in 1934, when Hitler created the Nazi party. The "brown shirts" the "army built up" the Tirpitz and Bischmark ships etc. all are the same things again.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Dutch -- Much of what you say is true but where I'll disagree is that we are "back in 1934". Yes there are trends in fascism. I have written about them in this website. But Trump's popularity is limited to a base of some 35 percent, whereas in pre-World War II Europe the masses of support represented a large part of the population.

    Also our two party system consists of many factions that through compromises can coexist in one party. In the parliamentary governments of Europe you have many of the same factions, but they exist as parties themselves. For a government to form, many of these parties (factions) have to align with one another, but like the factions inside the two main parties of America they too look after their own best interests.

    The current UK government is not a majority party, and it exists only because two parties have agreed to work together. However, when people react to populism like they did with the Brexit vote, the rule by the majority breaks down...both in the UK and America. Emotions trump critical thinking both in the USA and parliamentary systems. The DNA of the Europeans is the same as much of the DNA of Americans.

    America's nightmare will correct itself, and hopefully the populace will be wiser. I wonder though if the far left Bernie supporters can ever see themselves compromising with centrists for the good of the country.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    I wonder though if the centrist can ever see themselves compromising with the far left Bernie supporters for the good of the people?

  • Strongly Liberal
    Independent
    Ohio
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    It took a violent movement to get the government to allow unions about 100 years ago. Ever hear of the Chicago riots ? There were riots all over the US . Many people died. That is what it takes. The wealthy never stand down. You have to constantly fight them . They never rest. The right wing hate machine never stops it never takes a day off. The right wing hate radio never stops. The wealthy have bought our government and all that stands in their way of ensalving you and I and your children is the old piece of paper called the US Constitution and it's bill of rights. We have to fight for it, every day ,forever. As soon as we don't , it will be gone.

    So ya , it's ok to fight back. You should fight back if you don't want to fight back then get the fuck out of the way because you sure as fuck don't want to get caught in the between .

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: The article leads off with their planned disruption of the annual Republican participation in a parade in Portland Oregon by the Direct Action Alliance declaring "Nazi's will not march through Portland unopposed". Their threats worked. The parade was cancelled. Jared can probably comment more on that, but the article covers similar actions across the United States in which this movement wants to stop right wing groups from expressing their First Amendment rights. This is not what our democracy is about...silencing the "other" through threats of violence.

    Portland is a weird mix of hipsters, hippies, anti-capitalists, anti-fascists, and Neo-Nazi sympathizers. It's really an odd bunch. Thankfully the hipsters and hippies far out number those on the fringes.

    The 82nd Avenue of the Roses parade was cancelled due to a threat by someone (allegedly) aligned with Direct Action Alliance threatened violence since the Multnomah County Republican Party was going to be participating. I thought it was a bit over an overreaction, but we have to remember how high the tensions were in Portland after a white supremacist killed two and seriously wounded one on our light rail. The main Rose Festival Parade was still held downtown and it was done so without any major disruptions.


    The far left worries me as much as the far right. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that someone would be protesting hate speech by resorting to violence themselves. It just doesn't make sense to me.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I wonder though if the centrist can ever see themselves compromising with the far left Bernie supporters for the good of the people?

    What does that have to do with the Antifa movement?
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    I don't know how anyone can read the article at the link provided, the page keeps jumping all over the place. You scroll down to read, and the page jumps back to the top of the article, why post a bullshit link when you can't even read the thing in it's entirety?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Dutch -- Much of what you say is true but where I'll disagree is that we are "back in 1934". Yes there are trends in fascism. I have written about them in this website. But Trump's popularity is limited to a base of some 35 percent, whereas in pre-World War II Europe the masses of support represented a large part of the population.

    Also our two party system consists of many factions that through compromises can coexist in one party. In the parliamentary governments of Europe you have many of the same factions, but they exist as parties themselves. For a government to form, many of these parties (factions) have to align with one another, but like the factions inside the two main parties of America they too look after their own best interests.

    The current UK government is not a majority party, and it exists only because two parties have agreed to work together. However, when people react to populism like they did with the Brexit vote, the rule by the majority breaks down...both in the UK and America. Emotions trump critical thinking both in the USA and parliamentary systems. The DNA of the Europeans is the same as much of the DNA of Americans.

    America's nightmare will correct itself, and hopefully the populace will be wiser. I wonder though if the far left Bernie supporters can ever see themselves compromising with centrists for the good of the country.

    Your statement: "America will correct itself" No, not as long as you don't fix the things which I mentioned a million times. Like our voting laws and other weird things in the Constitution, gun laws, proper education in this country etc. As well PROPER vetting of Presidents and their subordinates. We did not get Trump for nothing. Look at your own written article about Trump. Thus America will not correct itself; they did not so since WWII. Solution; "start a new war" like this country always did when the "leader' was under pressure. Just look at all the conflicts and wars since WWII; does this country "uberhaupt" knows what "peace" is???
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Maindawg Wrote:

    It took a violent movement to get the government to allow unions about 100 years ago. Ever hear of the Chicago riots ? There were riots all over the US . Many people died. That is what it takes. The wealthy never stand down. You have to constantly fight them . They never rest. The right wing hate machine never stops it never takes a day off. The right wing hate radio never stops. The wealthy have bought our government and all that stands in their way of ensalving you and I and your children is the old piece of paper called the US Constitution and it's bill of rights. We have to fight for it, every day ,forever. As soon as we don't , it will be gone.

    So ya , it's ok to fight back. You should fight back if you don't want to fight back then get the fuck out of the way because you sure as fuck don't want to get caught in the between .

    Absolutely correct main, it took massive protests and people dying to achieve progress.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dockadams Wrote:
    Maindawg Wrote:

    It took a violent movement to get the government to allow unions about 100 years ago. Ever hear of the Chicago riots ? There were riots all over the US . Many people died. That is what it takes. The wealthy never stand down. You have to constantly fight them . They never rest. The right wing hate machine never stops it never takes a day off. The right wing hate radio never stops. The wealthy have bought our government and all that stands in their way of ensalving you and I and your children is the old piece of paper called the US Constitution and it's bill of rights. We have to fight for it, every day ,forever. As soon as we don't , it will be gone.

    So ya , it's ok to fight back. You should fight back if you don't want to fight back then get the fuck out of the way because you sure as fuck don't want to get caught in the between .

    Absolutely correct main, it took massive protests and people dying to achieve progress.
    I guess people can fight; but who are the "winners" in this country? Sorry to say the "billionaires" they use it to get it their way. Especially when the gap between "rich" and "poor" is widening. They play an huge role in our government; corrupt it in every way possible; the little man can fight with his card board sign; they laugh at it. Progress can only be achieved in an level the playing field.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I wonder though if the centrist can ever see themselves compromising with the far left Bernie supporters for the good of the people?

    What does that have to do with the Antifa movement?

    Ask Schmidt, I just commented on his diversion.

    I read what Schmidt posts.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    I wonder though if the centrist can ever see themselves compromising with the far left Bernie supporters for the good of the people?

    What does that have to do with the Antifa movement?

    Ask Schmidt, I just commented on his diversion.

    I read what Schmidt posts.

    Bernie supporters and the Antifa crowd are two very, and I mean VERY, separate groups.

  • Independent
    Washington
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    The more I learn about Antifa the more I dislike them. However, I think I understand their perspective.

    Their perspective\reality is that the US is on the verge of being a Nazi-like country (ie Trump will dis-pan the US government, take control of the military, and declare himself Supreme command for life), thus they are behaving as if our country is no different than Nazi Germany when Germany started to round up Jews. In their mind, the only option is to use terrorist tactics to disrupt the power base.

    IMHO, Antifa have the same mentality as racists in how they think problems should be solved (use violience\terrorism\etc), they just have a different set of liberal causes. If it were the 1960s, they'd reject MLK's passive resistances, and even considered having him assassinated as being in the way of their agenda.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Democrats or liberal + progressive leaning folks need to form an anti antifa movement then. Strictly not violent unless they are physically attacked by another. If you get punched in the nose, return the favor.