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Unless you're black

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Paying a person more money may not make a more responsible person but it will attract a different class of person. Pay more and people will want to protect their employment more.

    I disagree to an extent. Hiring a different class of person doesn't always work in this day and age. People these days don't seem to give a shit. As far as paying more and people will want to protect their employment more doesn't work either. I have seen well compensated individuals who could care less about their jobs, some viewed their employment as a stepping stone to something better, and some are in whatever because the pay is good.

    In a small western town of New Mexico, a few years ago, the starting wage for a sheriff's deputy, non certified was around $8.55 per hour, the state/federal minimum wage was $7.25 an hour. They since have raised their minimum wage standard for a non cert deputy, but it's still low. Certified deputies earn about $11.80 an hour, first or second year. A couple of the certified deputies were unloaded after it was found they were involved in criminal activity.

    I still believe that the police culture has to change from being us versus them attitude to a more helping type police, the we serve and protect motto isn't working too well for police departments in black neighborhoods. The cops are supposed to be public servants, and need to learn that using a gun is always the last resort.

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Paying a person more money may not make a more responsible person but it will attract a different class of person. Pay more and people will want to protect their employment more.

    There is literally zero empirical or peer reviewed evidence to back this claim up. None whatsoever.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. But, hell...why should facts matter when your feelings are more important?!


    Social workers aren't social workers because they enjoy making $10/hour; they are social workers because they want to help people. Sure, they would love to make more money, but they will continue to be social workers regardless. The same goes with teachers. They are teachers because they love teaching kids.

    I'm all for dramatically increasing social workers and teachers incomes (you seem to forget I was a social worker for five years), but social workers and teachers aren't doing what they do because they are a "different class of person." They are doing what they do because they want to make a difference in peoples lives.

    Why do coal miners and plumbers make more than social workers and teachers? Shouldn't the real question be figuring out where our nations priorities lie? Is someone who unclogs your toilet more valuable than someone who teaches our nations youth?

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    Here's a doozy, a Chicago cop punches a teen in the face, twice, broke his jaw, and the teen's lawyer file a lawsuit, he won $300,000 from the city, and the cop was promoted to a detective. Yes, promoted.

    chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/...

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    Where I came from (Columbus, Ohio) they play college football at The Ohio State University. At a camp this week a highly sought after recruit wore a T Shirt that read - I hope I don't get killed for being black today. There was a short article and then the comments exploded. Well over 500 comments in a short amount of time. It's a topical issue with persons on each side. I hoped for more positive comments but this country is what it is. My mental pictures of America 12 months ago were nicer than what I typically see currently.

    elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football-...

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    I also should say worked with a guy who married a woman who was previously married to a cop, and she was routinely beaten by her ex-husband. She was a very nice person, non confrontational, he'd beat her for not reason at all, such as forgetting to put the cap back on the toothpaste, didn't matter really, if he was going to beat her, he'd find some stupid reason. He did get fired at some point because he was arresting far too many people who needed hospitalization for trivial crimes like traffic stops. It just became too much of a pattern that people who never had a ticket in their life were being arrested for significant crimes that escalated from traffic stops.
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    Exactly, a traffic stop in a ghetto usually turns into a cop saying to the motorist, I think I smell marijuana coming from your car, things go downhill after that. I believe cops have a quota for writing traffic tickets, and whatever happens along the way is a feather in their hats.
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    There's a thing I follow on Facebook. It's called Police The Police. I often find their content to be interesting. I think others may enjoy checking them out as well.

    facebook.com/policethepoliceACP/

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Paying a person more money may not make a more responsible person but it will attract a different class of person. Pay more and people will want to protect their employment more.

    There is literally zero empirical or peer reviewed evidence to back this claim up. None whatsoever.

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. But, hell...why should facts matter when your feelings are more important?!


    Social workers aren't social workers because they enjoy making $10/hour; they are social workers because they want to help people. Sure, they would love to make more money, but they will continue to be social workers regardless. The same goes with teachers. They are teachers because they love teaching kids.

    I'm all for dramatically increasing social workers and teachers incomes (you seem to forget I was a social worker for five years), but social workers and teachers aren't doing what they do because they are a "different class of person." They are doing what they do because they want to make a difference in peoples lives.

    Why do coal miners and plumbers make more than social workers and teachers? Shouldn't the real question be figuring out where our nations priorities lie? Is someone who unclogs your toilet more valuable than someone who teaches our nations youth?

    "There is literally zero empirical or peer reviewed evidence to back this claim up. None whatsoever."

    So think a place that pays more to social workers than other institutions won't get better social workers. You totally contradict the thinking of executive compensation committees that think paying more gets better executives. How can you make rediculous observations like that and then actually post them. Money is an incentive. Period.

    Plumber or teacher they both deserve the opportunity to have employment that provides for fulfilling lifestyles. Should people be punished for a lack of skills.

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    "A recent field study from development economist Frederico Finan and colleagues provides an answer: Their research offers the first-ever experimental evidence that higher wages attract workers who are highly skilled and who hold a true interest in the organization's cause."***

    See jaredsxtn, You don't have to research to learn, just listen to me.

    *** gsb.stanford.edu/insights/frederico-fin...

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    TJ Wrote:

    The most recent case of severe injustice took place and too few are acknowledging that it happened. Maybe if we don't discuss it ...

    The NRA should be losing their God damned minds and they would be if he was white.

    As mentioned in the link, the man was a legal gun owner who was with his family. He committed no crime. He's dead and the cop is not charged. It may be fine in your neighborhood but much of America doesn't live in the same comfort zone. Many roll their eyes and quickly scroll past.

    Houston, we have a problem.

    vox.com/culture/2017/6/20/15838472/trev...

    I think when Mr. Castile told the officer he had a gun, the officer's fight or flight response went completely haywire.

    You can hear his adrenaline taking off: "Okay...okay. Don't reach for it then...Don't Pull it out..DON'T PULL IT OUT."

    Instead of saying "don't reach for it" and "don't pull it out", his command should have been more direct, e.g. "put your hands where I can see them" or "put your hands on the steering wheel."

    Not only can you hear the fear in his voice, but you can visibly see the officer begin to reach for his weapon after saying "okay" the second time.

    If he felt the need to touch his weapon, he should have taken a step back and ordered Castile out of the vehicle at gun point. He didn't try to take control of the situation, and instead reacted very poorly to say the least. He never saw a weapon. He saw a black man who said they were in possession of a gun; and that made the officer jump.

    It looks as if the officer reaches in to grab Castile just before he fires his weapon. Both Castile and his girlfriend announce that he is not reaching for his weapon before he's shot. It's possible that Castile reacted defensively to this aggression; but that doesn't justify being shot.

    There's a combination of something upstairs in the officer's head not being there, poor training, and a broader systemic problem.

    At minimum, the most minimum point this is still manslaughter.

    These type of trials need to be handled independent of the local district attorney. District attorney offices and police departments must work together, if they are to serve any public purpose. Because of that, they are not impartial to one another.

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    All I can say that all of this is an self inflicted wound; 45 Presidents and none of them had the guts to "amend" the "second amendment" to read " this applies to flintlocks and muskets only. Second never employ ex military in the police force; their training does not match the civil "serving" part. They've learned everyone is the enemy and shoot to kill. Furthermore if an suspects runs away, don't immediately shoot them in the back, but how about the leg? Anyway the police training is deplorable and missing to learn to be decent and polite and to the point. Not the bully army training.
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    The same attitude applies to vehicle chases. Police will chase a vehicle because the driver takes off. The chase endangers multiple innocent other drivers and pedestrians. Chase may end in dangerous crashes and then violent arrests. Probably in a couple of hours the runner is released and back on the street. After dangerous life threatening chases because a suspect set off the fight or flight emotion.
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    Carlitos Wrote:
    TJ Wrote:

    The most recent case of severe injustice took place and too few are acknowledging that it happened. Maybe if we don't discuss it ...

    The NRA should be losing their God damned minds and they would be if he was white.

    As mentioned in the link, the man was a legal gun owner who was with his family. He committed no crime. He's dead and the cop is not charged. It may be fine in your neighborhood but much of America doesn't live in the same comfort zone. Many roll their eyes and quickly scroll past.

    Houston, we have a problem.

    vox.com/culture/2017/6/20/15838472/trev...

    I think when Mr. Castile told the officer he had a gun, the officer's fight or flight response went completely haywire.

    You can hear his adrenaline taking off: "Okay...okay. Don't reach for it then...Don't Pull it out..DON'T PULL IT OUT."

    Instead of saying "don't reach for it" and "don't pull it out", his command should have been more direct, e.g. "put your hands where I can see them" or "put your hands on the steering wheel."

    Not only can you hear the fear in his voice, but you can visibly see the officer begin to reach for his weapon after saying "okay" the second time.

    If he felt the need to touch his weapon, he should have taken a step back and ordered Castile out of the vehicle at gun point. He didn't try to take control of the situation, and instead reacted very poorly to say the least. He never saw a weapon. He saw a black man who said they were in possession of a gun; and that made the officer jump.

    It looks as if the officer reaches in to grab Castile just before he fires his weapon. Both Castile and his girlfriend announce that he is not reaching for his weapon before he's shot. It's possible that Castile reacted defensively to this aggression; but that doesn't justify being shot.

    There's a combination of something upstairs in the officer's head not being there, poor training, and a broader systemic problem.

    At minimum, the most minimum point this is still manslaughter.

    These type of trials need to be handled independent of the local district attorney. District attorney offices and police departments must work together, if they are to serve any public purpose. Because of that, they are not impartial to one another.

    Can you imagine the officers explanations IF there wasn't a smart phone ??? He did this and that and there was absolute chaos. Thanks to the video we can see all of the chaos was in your head.
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    First , there are far too many police. Far too many bad laws , dumb laws . Like arresting people for drugs. It's crazy. Imagine if the police did not arrest people for drugs. They would not have anything to do. Imagine , in the future , self driving cars eliminate the need for traffic police. Imagine , there are no desperate poor people because in a democratic society , we decide everyone deserves a home and food to eat and preventive healthcare so no one suffers alone. Imagine that we don't sell guns to anyone who cannot behave themselves and must adhere to some kind of sensible rules like say mentally ill people can't have on or domestic abuser can't have one.

    Imagine the police , only have to solve crimes and catch criminals . There would be no drug dealers if they just made all drugs legal and then restricted their use like we do alcohol and tobacco. Why is it ok to kill your self with one and not the other? Imagine we did not live in a crazy world where we lie to our children , lie to each other to purpitrate the same old tired myths that we have for so long clung to like a baby blanket.

    Some towns are getting rid of their corrupt police forces. Why are we using our tax money to persecute one another ? Too many cops . That is the problem.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    TJ Wrote:

    The most recent case of severe injustice took place and too few are acknowledging that it happened. Maybe if we don't discuss it ...

    The NRA should be losing their God damned minds and they would be if he was white.

    As mentioned in the link, the man was a legal gun owner who was with his family. He committed no crime. He's dead and the cop is not charged. It may be fine in your neighborhood but much of America doesn't live in the same comfort zone. Many roll their eyes and quickly scroll past.

    Houston, we have a problem.

    vox.com/culture/2017/6/20/15838472/trev...

    Yes TJ, big problem for 3 more cops in Chicago who conspired to cover up the shooting of Laquan McDonald, here's a news story from ABC7 Chicago:

    abcnews.go.com/US/chicago-police-office...

    "March, Walsh, Gaffney and others allegedly conspired in the "critical early hours and days" following the shooter "to conceal the true facts of the events surrounding" McDonald's death "to shield their fellow officer… from criminal investigation and prosecution," the indictment states.

    Prosecutors also accuse the officers of coordinating their activities to protect each other and other members of the department by furnishing false information, making false police reports, failing to report or correct false information, ignoring contrary information or evidence, obstructing justice, failing to perform a mandatory duty and performing acts each knew he was forbidden to perfect."

    But will the indictments stick, so far the police union in Chicago is mum.