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Punishment fit the crime.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    What level of punishment should be applied to people coming to the USA to improve their lives?

    Trump should add a clause to the statue of liberty inscription that says "So we can pick out the ones we want and send the rest back".

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    What level of punishment should be applied to people coming to the USA to improve their lives?

    Trump should add a clause to the statue of liberty inscription that says "So we can pick out the ones we want and send the rest back".

    A free ride back, it is not a right to emigrate to any country you choose, you must first found out if you have permission unless of course you might be a refugee.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    johnnycee, Unless you are independently wealthy all transgressions against the poor and minorities work their way up to affect everybody. The old addage people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Unless you are immune through wealth or birthright the worst treatment works it way up. I would advise good treatment for everybody.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: johnnycee, Unless you are independently wealthy all transgressions against the poor and minorities work their way up to affect everybody. The old addage people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Unless you are immune through wealth or birthright the worst treatment works it way up. I would advise good treatment for everybody.

    Don't hold your breath Chet - It's pretty difficult for many Republicans to treat everyone nicely and show compassion. It's just not in their DNA.

    The irony is that the vast majority of them are religious yet choose to not listen to the words of their supposed savior who instructed them to love and accept everyone.

    No, they tend to go to church on Sundays, pat themselves on the back for being holier than thou, and then walk right past the homeless family begging for food on the street on their way home to watch their favorite NFL team.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Yes Jared right on absolutely the truth. Like I said before; just "confess" and all your lies and bullying are forgiven.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: A free ride back, it is not a right to emigrate to any country you choose, you must first found out if you have permission unless of course you might be a refugee.

    What about the children who were brought here when they were infants? Did they choose to emigrate here?

    Or what about the citizen children of undocumented immigrants? How do you propose we take care of them after Donald gives them a free ride (or should I say American taxpayer subsidized ride) back to whatever country they came from?

    Does the United States have the legal right to just drop people off in foreign countries? What if they have no passport and can't get through customs in whatever country Donald sends them back to?

    I'm not sure you understand how international diplomacy works. We can't just load millions of people on planes and dump them off in another country.

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: A free ride back, it is not a right to emigrate to any country you choose, you must first found out if you have permission unless of course you might be a refugee.

    What about the children who were brought here when they were infants? Did they choose to emigrate here?

    Or what about the citizen children of undocumented immigrants? How do you propose we take care of them after Donald gives them a free ride (or should I say American taxpayer subsidized ride) back to whatever country they came from?

    Does the United States have the legal right to just drop people off in foreign countries? What if they have no passport and can't get through customs in whatever country Donald sends them back to?

    I'm not sure you understand how international diplomacy works. We can't just load millions of people on planes and dump them off in another country.

    So if you had a vacation home ,say up in the mountains, a little cabin , to get away from the city , you only use it maybe 2 or 5 weeks a year, you go up there and find a family of undocumented people living there for about 6 or 7 months, they have nowhere else to go , do you let them stay there and if so , for how long, and are you now held liable for them because you have let them stay there and where does your responsibilty end, do you ask the sheriff and the courts to begin eviction proceedings against them even though they say they have no where else to go, and do you continue to pay for the utilities for your vacation home while they live there, being aware of course that your planned vacation is now shot to hell. Now I am not saying you round up millions of people and dump them anywhere , what I am saying is that you have to start somewhere, and I think with the criminal element it is a good start, after them, are those who couldn't bother with getting their Visa's extended or renewed, offer them the choice , if they choose not to, back they go, in answer to to your question of does the United States have the legal right to drop people off in other foreign countries, should I assume that you mean other than their country of birth,probably not, but if it's to their own country of birth , most certainly, I now ask you a question, does the United States have the legal right and responsibilty to accept or deny any immigrant entrance to the nation.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: So if you had a vacation home ,say up in the mountains, a little cabin , to get away from the city , you only use it maybe 2 or 5 weeks a year, you go up there and find a family of undocumented people living there for about 6 or 7 months, they have nowhere else to go , do you let them stay there and if so , for how long, and are you now held liable for them because you have let them stay there and where does your responsibilty end, do you ask the sheriff and the courts to begin eviction proceedings against them even though they say they have no where else to go, and do you continue to pay for the utilities for your vacation home while they live there, being aware of course that your planned vacation is now shot to hell. Now I am not saying you round up millions of people and dump them anywhere , what I am saying is that you have to start somewhere, and I think with the criminal element it is a good start, after them, are those who couldn't bother with getting their Visa's extended or renewed, offer them the choice , if they choose not to, back they go, in answer to to your question of does the United States have the legal right to drop people off in other foreign countries, should I assume that you mean other than their country of birth,probably not, but if it's to their own country of birth , most certainly, I now ask you a question, does the United States have the legal right and responsibilty to accept or deny any immigrant entrance to the nation.

    Do you understand what sentences and paragraphs are? It's damn near impossible to figure out where one of your rants end and another begins.

    And it's telling that you just went off on your own rant about a family vacation rather than answer my very simple and direct questions that actually had to do with the discussion at hand.

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: So if you had a vacation home ,say up in the mountains, a little cabin , to get away from the city , you only use it maybe 2 or 5 weeks a year, you go up there and find a family of undocumented people living there for about 6 or 7 months, they have nowhere else to go , do you let them stay there and if so , for how long, and are you now held liable for them because you have let them stay there and where does your responsibilty end, do you ask the sheriff and the courts to begin eviction proceedings against them even though they say they have no where else to go, and do you continue to pay for the utilities for your vacation home while they live there, being aware of course that your planned vacation is now shot to hell. Now I am not saying you round up millions of people and dump them anywhere , what I am saying is that you have to start somewhere, and I think with the criminal element it is a good start, after them, are those who couldn't bother with getting their Visa's extended or renewed, offer them the choice , if they choose not to, back they go, in answer to to your question of does the United States have the legal right to drop people off in other foreign countries, should I assume that you mean other than their country of birth,probably not, but if it's to their own country of birth , most certainly, I now ask you a question, does the United States have the legal right and responsibilty to accept or deny any immigrant entrance to the nation.

    Do you understand what sentences and paragraphs are? It's damn near impossible to figure out where one of your rants end and another begins.

    And it's telling that you just went off on your own rant about a family vacation rather than answer my very simple and direct questions that actually had to do with the discussion at hand.

    So you are also the grammar police as well, so be it, since you have such a command of English grammar perhaps you missed the purpose of an analogy, which I used to describe the situation when uninvited people come into your life, which is exactly the discussion at hand. I also noted that you did not answer any of my questions but chose to deflect and criticize my grammar. Interesting.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: A free ride back, it is not a right to emigrate to any country you choose, you must first found out if you have permission unless of course you might be a refugee.

    What about the children who were brought here when they were infants? Did they choose to emigrate here?

    Or what about the citizen children of undocumented immigrants? How do you propose we take care of them after Donald gives them a free ride (or should I say American taxpayer subsidized ride) back to whatever country they came from?

    Does the United States have the legal right to just drop people off in foreign countries? What if they have no passport and can't get through customs in whatever country Donald sends them back to?

    I'm not sure you understand how international diplomacy works. We can't just load millions of people on planes and dump them off in another country.

    So if you had a vacation home ,say up in the mountains, a little cabin , to get away from the city , you only use it maybe 2 or 5 weeks a year, you go up there and find a family of undocumented people living there for about 6 or 7 months, they have nowhere else to go , do you let them stay there and if so , for how long, and are you now held liable for them because you have let them stay there and where does your responsibilty end, do you ask the sheriff and the courts to begin eviction proceedings against them even though they say they have no where else to go, and do you continue to pay for the utilities for your vacation home while they live there, being aware of course that your planned vacation is now shot to hell. Now I am not saying you round up millions of people and dump them anywhere , what I am saying is that you have to start somewhere, and I think with the criminal element it is a good start, after them, are those who couldn't bother with getting their Visa's extended or renewed, offer them the choice , if they choose not to, back they go, in answer to to your question of does the United States have the legal right to drop people off in other foreign countries, should I assume that you mean other than their country of birth,probably not, but if it's to their own country of birth , most certainly, I now ask you a question, does the United States have the legal right and responsibilty to accept or deny any immigrant entrance to the nation.

    johnnycee, remove undocumented from your analogy and how would you answer ?

    Your analogy is nowhere near analogous to the immigration problem. It is an example of a strawman fallacy.

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Oh boy Chet, I guess an explanation is needed for you to understand my post: an analogy is more often than not "undocumented", and using the term uninvited is quite on point regarding illegal immigration.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: So you are also the grammar police as well, so be it,

    I am when I can't follow a posting because I can't tell when one thought ends and another begins.

    johnnycee Wrote: since you have such a command of English grammar perhaps you missed the purpose of an analogy, which I used to describe the situation when uninvited people come into your life, which is exactly the discussion at hand.

    Yea, but I asked you three very simple and direct questions and you went off on some diatribe about someone breaking into a log cabin.

    So no, your diatribe about a cabin in the woods had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That is unless you have convinced yourself that it does just because you think it does.

    johnnycee Wrote: I also noted that you did not answer any of my questions but chose to deflect and criticize my grammar. Interesting.

    And I noticed that you didn't answer my three very simple ones.

    1. What about the children who were brought here when they were infants? Did they choose to emigrate here?

    2. Or what about the citizen children of undocumented immigrants? How do you propose we take care of them after Donald gives the parents a free ride (or should I say American taxpayer subsidized ride) back to whatever country they came from?

    3. Does the United States have the legal right to just drop people off in foreign countries? What if they have no passport and can't get through customs in whatever country Donald sends them back to?

    Interesting.


    To answer your diatribe though - I think that comparing undocumented immigrants who are just trying to survive to people who physically break into your private property shows your true colors and the type of so called "Christian" man you are.

    (I also criticize your grammar because a page long reply with no sentence or paragraph breaks is impossible to follow. How do you expect solid responses to your posts when people can't figure out when one of your thoughts ends and another begins?)

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: So you are also the grammar police as well, so be it,

    I am when I can't follow a posting because I can't tell when one thought ends and another begins.

    johnnycee Wrote: since you have such a command of English grammar perhaps you missed the purpose of an analogy, which I used to describe the situation when uninvited people come into your life, which is exactly the discussion at hand.

    Yea, but I asked you three very simple and direct questions and you went off on some diatribe about someone breaking into a log cabin.

    So no, your diatribe about a cabin in the woods had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That is unless you have convinced yourself that it does just because you think it does.

    johnnycee Wrote: I also noted that you did not answer any of my questions but chose to deflect and criticize my grammar. Interesting.

    And I noticed that you didn't answer my three very simple ones.

    1. What about the children who were brought here when they were infants? Did they choose to emigrate here?

    2. Or what about the citizen children of undocumented immigrants? How do you propose we take care of them after Donald gives the parents a free ride (or should I say American taxpayer subsidized ride) back to whatever country they came from?

    3. Does the United States have the legal right to just drop people off in foreign countries? What if they have no passport and can't get through customs in whatever country Donald sends them back to?

    Interesting.


    To answer your diatribe though - I think that comparing undocumented immigrants who are just trying to survive to people who physically break into your private property shows your true colors and the type of so called "Christian" man you are.

    (I also criticize your grammar because a page long reply with no sentence or paragraph breaks is impossible to follow. How do you expect solid responses to your posts when people can't figure out when one of your thoughts ends and another begins?)

    So for someone who couldn't follow my posting you seemed to understand it quite well, so that blows your specious { having a false look of truth or genuineness} argument of not understanding, and although you don't appear to understand exactly what a "rant" is, I will try to explain it, a rant is a long, noisy, angry, or an excited talk, (note not written) , in a declamatory manner, my posting was more in the interrogatory category, so now you what a rant is, but you just couldn't resist being critical of anything that I post, now it's my grammar, but that's okay if you feel the need to bolster your confidence prior to any reply to me with being critical first, that's okay also, that's my christian side showing, . Now onto your questions, my answer is that they knew when they arrived of the possible consequences if they were caught, as for the legal question, I did post that dropping them off in a country other than their own was probably not legal. I did not say anything about breaking in although you did mention it, but I did say not invited and I did add that upon discovery they were allowed to stay, and my next question, which you did not ,or could not or just won't answer is the legal ramifications of that decision. BTW, a comma ( , ) is considered a break or a pause in a sentence, just thought you like to know.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: So for someone who couldn't follow my posting you seemed to understand it quite well, so that blows your specious { having a false look of truth or genuineness} argument of not understanding, and although you don't appear to understand exactly what a "rant" is, I will try to explain it, a rant is a long, noisy, angry, or an excited talk, (note not written) , in a declamatory manner, my posting was more in the interrogatory category, so now you what a rant is, but you just couldn't resist being critical of anything that I post, now it's my grammar, but that's okay if you feel the need to bolster your confidence prior to any reply to me with being critical first, that's okay also, that's my christian side showing, .

    Look who pulled up Dictionary.com! Good for you. I have a friend who works for the company. He will be happy to hear that you used them for help.

    Now I encourage you to read up on how to write a paragraph. Don't fret. The link comes with pictures and everything.

    johnnycee Wrote: Now onto your questions, my answer is that they knew when they arrived of the possible consequences if they were caught, as for the legal question, I did post that dropping them off in a country other than their own was probably not legal.

    A six month old knew the consequences of entering the United States without the correct paperwork?

    johnnycee Wrote: I did not say anything about breaking in although you did mention it, but I did say not invited and I did add that upon discovery they were allowed to stay, and my next question, which you did not ,or could not or just won't answer is the legal ramifications of that decision.

    "So if you had a vacation home ,say up in the mountains, a little cabin , to get away from the city , you only use it maybe 2 or 5 weeks a year, you go up there and find a family of undocumented people living there for about 6 or 7 months, they have nowhere else to go , do you let them stay there and if so , for how long,"

    How did this fictional family get into this fictional log cabin without breaking in?


    I fully understand the legal ramifications of your rant. If someone was living in my private property then I would call the police and ask them to be removed. That's just a tad bit different than an undocumented immigrant living in a house or apartment that they own or rent.

    Are you able to understand the fallacy of your argument?

    johnnycee Wrote: BTW, a comma ( , ) is considered a break or a pause in a sentence, just thought you like to know.

    A period (.) is considered the end of a sentence. A pilcrow (¶) is considered a paragraph break.

    Just thought you'd like to know.

  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Of course the child did not know, but the parents did, so the responsibility lies with the parents, and unfortunately the child suffers for it, so it's upon the parents to find friends or relatives to assist them, and as a last resort the Social Agencies that are already tasked with finding homes for affected children of other domestic issue should be able to step in. As for gaining entrance other than breaking in, which is something you are assuming, there have been occasions when owners of such mountain cabins do leave the doors closed but unlocked for the lost hiker, or an injured hunter to be able to get in from the weather while awaiting help, I know this for a fact because a friend of does just that, it also prevents someone from breaking out the windows or breaking down the door to gain access. I used the analogy of a cabin ( the USA ) and the owner ( the citizen) and the illegal ( uninvited) and as you stated if you find someone living on your private property uninvited you would call the authorities and have them removed, why? They said that they had no other place to go and they did not destroy your property, I ask again why would you have them removed? But I did notice that true to your form you cannot help yourself from being critical or sarcastic when it comes to my postings.