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Muslim ban

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    answer the question

    you were fine with Obama banning illegals from Cuba as was the DNC and GOP - deportation immediately for anyone coming to the US from Cuba illegally, that's what Obama did. Nobody challenged it in court, it was fine and dandy

    apply that same exact EO to Mexico. You have to agree that if Trump did that it would be ok, right ?

    c'mon .... tough question isn't it because you know the answer. If Trump did that, the snowflakes would go bonkers wouldn't they ? Simply because its Trump, not because of the policy

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    They are picking a fight with the judiciary. This is how you get the coup started. Attack the media ,attack the judiciary , align yourself with the military , create a new mititary authority and use it as a weapon against anyone who opposes you. We have seen this all before. Iether he is stopped or we will all be dead soon.
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    conservativecat Wrote: you were fine with Obama banning illegals from Cuba as was the DNC and GOP - deportation immediately for anyone coming to the US from Cuba illegally, that's what Obama did. Nobody challenged it in court, it was fine and dandy

    Here's where you begin to let your right wing dogma take control.

    You are comparing Obama ending the wet foot, dry foot policy that allowed any Cuban to enter the United States and immediately be given legal status to live here ad infinitum with Trump decreeing that anyone who lives in seven countries isn't allowed to enter the United States no matter what.

    Obama's order still allowed Cuban's to enter the United States via legal means (just like we mandate for every other country!); Donald's order said that no one - even those with a green card - were allowed to enter the United States.

    Do you understand that difference?

    conservativecat Wrote:apply that same exact EO to Mexico. You have to agree that if Trump did that it would be ok, right ?

    c'mon .... tough question isn't it because you know the answer. If Trump did that, the snowflakes would go bonkers wouldn't they ? Simply because its Trump, not because of the policy

    It's not a tough question at all.

    Impeachment would be the best case scenario if Donald issued an executive order banning Mexicans from entering the United States. A trade war would be the second best scenario and the United States will lose big league (as Donald likes to say) if we get sucked into that.

    Seriously. You really don't seem to understand history, political science, or pretty much anything else outside of the current Republican dogma. That is so dangerous.

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    Oh I see - Obama banning illegal Cubans is good, Trump banning illegal Mexicans is call for impeachment

    It is the exact same thing - legally it would be identical, you know it and I know it. You don't mind Obama doing it because you don't care about all the Cuban's being deported and because it was Obama who did it.

    Tell the truth - you would grill Trump and call for his head if he re instituted wet/dry policy wouldn't you? Because its all about hate and division towards Trump and nothing else. isn't it ?

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    Oh I see - Obama banning illegal Cubans is good, Trump banning illegal Mexicans is call for impeachment

    It is the exact same thing - legally it would be identical, you know it and I know it. You don't mind Obama doing it because you don't care about all the Cuban's being deported and because it was Obama who did it.

    Tell the truth - you would grill Trump and call for his head if he re instituted wet/dry policy wouldn't you? Because its all about hate and division towards Trump and nothing else. isn't it ?

    You don't know me at all, so I encourage you to not tell me what I do or don't feel or believe.

    To be honest - I have no problem with wet foot, dry foot. I also have no problem with Muslims coming to America. And I sure and shit don't have any problems with Latinos and Mexicans living here. I actually believe that America is and always should be a melting pot who welcomes all races and religions - especially those races that we slaughtered and stole land from in the first place.

    And how in the world did Mexico get lumped into this thread anyway? This is about Donald's Muslim ban; not about Donald's infatuation with Mexico.

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    Given the timing of reversing the Cuban policy, just days before Trump took Office, I tend to think it was move to put something in place that was the lesser of two evils than what was anticipated Trump would likely planning. Based on what we've seen Trump do so far, Cuban refugees would have specically targeted for mass deportation.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    conservativecat Wrote:

    Oh I see - Obama banning illegal Cubans is good, Trump banning illegal Mexicans is call for impeachment

    It is the exact same thing - legally it would be identical, you know it and I know it. You don't mind Obama doing it because you don't care about all the Cuban's being deported and because it was Obama who did it.

    Tell the truth - you would grill Trump and call for his head if he re instituted wet/dry policy wouldn't you? Because its all about hate and division towards Trump and nothing else. isn't it ?

    You don't know me at all, so I encourage you to not tell me what I do or don't feel or believe.

    To be honest - I have no problem with wet foot, dry foot. I also have no problem with Muslims coming to America. And I sure and shit don't have any problems with Latinos and Mexicans living here. I actually believe that America is and always should be a melting pot who welcomes all races and religions - especially those races that we slaughtered and stole land from in the first place.

    And how in the world did Mexico get lumped into this thread anyway? This is about Donald's Muslim ban; not about Donald's infatuation with Mexico.

    Absolutely correct Jared; however I think all of this turmoil is "divide and rule" as well an"deviation" tactic of other things which can't stand the "daylight"
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    its very relevant

    first of all - you have to quit calling it a muslim ban - that's not what it was or is. You do that to create a sense of hate and fear. Good try though.

    second - you have to acknowledge that its criminal to be in the US illegally, laws are broken. As Obama said, we are a nation of laws, of immigrant, but legally attained. Being here illegally is a crime.

    third - the relevancy of Obama's Cuban policy reversal. Its specifically targeting Cuban's. Not sure why other than Obama has recently been meeting with Castro and buddying up there which I have no problem with. I actually like the reversal - because it clearly sends a message that the US isn't going to allow illegals.

    Now lets extend that to all countries - no illegals allowed, ever, period.

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    conservativecat Wrote: its very relevant

    No, it's not. It's a red herring meant to muddy a conversation.

    conservativecat Wrote: first of all - you have to quit calling it a muslim ban - that's not what it was or is. You do that to create a sense of hate and fear. Good try though.

    I know Fox "News" wants you to believe that it's not a Muslim ban, but anyone with a functioning brain understands that banning everyone from seven vastly majority Muslim countries is a Muslim ban.

    If Donald sprinkled in Germany and Sweden then you might have a better leg to stand on, but he did no such thing.

    conservativecat Wrote: second - you have to acknowledge that its criminal to be in the US illegally, laws are broken. As Obama said, we are a nation of laws, of immigrant, but legally attained. Being here illegally is a crime.

    You are conflating undocumented immigration with the Muslim ban. They are two entirely different things.

    The Muslim ban says no one from those seven countries - even Green Card holders! - are allowed to enter the United States for any reason. They can't come for work, vacation, school, or any other reason. That's why it was thrown out in court just as soon as it was implemented.

    President Obama ended the wet foot, dry foot policy that allowed people from one country and one country only to enter the United States illegally and immediately be given legal status no questions asked.

    Now - this is not a discussion about general immigration reform and if you want to start one about that then have at it, but this website doesn't allow people to hijack any thread and make it about whatever they want to talk about because they think it's relevant. General immigration reform is not relevant to Donald's Muslim ban because they are two entirely different topics.

    conservativecat Wrote: third - the relevancy of Obama's Cuban policy reversal. Its specifically targeting Cuban's. Not sure why other than Obama has recently been meeting with Castro and buddying up there which I have no problem with. I actually like the reversal - because it clearly sends a message that the US isn't going to allow illegals.

    Again - it's not relevant to this discussion.

    conservativecat Wrote: Now lets extend that to all countries - no illegals allowed, ever, period.

    How cruel.

    What goes around comes around and if we are ever in a position as a country where a mass migration takes place then you'd be begging for other countries to take you in.


    You also seem to have little to zero understanding of American history. Every single person (other than native peoples) in this country are decedents of immigrants or immigrants themselves. There was no such thing as legal or illegal immigration for hundreds of years. People just came - with millions of them being forced to come against their will.

    It wasn't easy and people from various European countries were stigmatized (see the Irish), but the melting pot eventually smoothed out. Then us white people started getting nervous that too many Chinese were moving to the west coast and the government passed the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882. That brought about a long succession of discriminatory and racist acts meant to keep non-Anglo Saxon's out of the United States.

    So what you're calling for is nothing new at all. History always repeats itself. I just thought we had finally moved on as a country and accepted that people of all religions and races are welcome here, but Donald's election and the hate coming from his millions of supporters shows that we still have a very long way to go.

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    Jared, I'm amazed that you put in so much effort into convincing an Trump supporter. You are doing an great job and I fully agree related to your comments.

    My comment is that:

    1) Trump wants to undo anything and I mean "anything" Obama did, just out of pure "hate.

    2) He hates anything (like Bannon) what is not "christian white" and tries to play/acts an "cover up" with "Jews" and "blacks" but openly hates Muslims ( I've not seen him visiting an Mosque)

    The biggest joke is that he sent Pence to "help" with repairing the toppled gravestones at an Jewish cemetery. ( He stood there for an"photo-op" with an rake), raking leaves. An pure laugh.

    The whole Trump circus consists of "hypocrites".

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    I know Fox "News" wants you to believe that it's not a Muslim ban, but anyone with a functioning brain understands that banning everyone from seven vastly majority Muslim countries is a Muslim ban.

    According to the Pew Research Center in 2010, there were 50 Muslim-majority countries

    Trump used 7 countries Obama’s administration identified as high threat levels. If this were a muslim ban like the alt-left is saying, why didn’t Trump ban all 50 countries?

    Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. If a country put a temp ban on USA, would that be a Christian ban? No – you wouldn’t call it that at all would you?

    Trump specifically said it’s NOT a ban on anyone’s religious choice, he’s banning all the muslims and Christians and Hindu’s and Buddhists and atheists equally and fairly until there is a better vetting system. That’s what it is, calling it anything else is a lie.

    Democrats cannot say illegal - they say undocumented. They can't say a temp ban on heavily infested ISIS countries, they have to say muslim ban. They do this to create division, hate, to keep the anger going from losing the election the media swore Hillary couldn't lose.

    The Muslim ban says no one from those seven countries - even Green Card holders! - are allowed to enter the United States for any reason. They can't come for work, vacation, school, or any other reason. That's why it was thrown out in court just as soon as it was implemented.

    I suspect Trump threw it out there, let the left use their resources to identify flaws so his next one they’ll have to accept based on the decisions of the first. People with authorized legal entry should be allowed - and that number should be few.

    President Obama ended the wet foot, dry foot policy that allowed people from one country and one country only to enter the United States illegally and immediately be given legal status no questions asked.

    You would therefore call it a Catholic ban right? Stay consistent.

    How cruel.

    What goes around comes around and if we are ever in a position as a country where a mass migration takes place then you'd be begging for other countries to take you in.

    1 in 6 kids hungry, 20 trillion in debt, 40% of working age people don’t work, Veterans homeless ….. we cannot take in the world’s problems until we solve our own.

    other countries wouldn't take a mass migration of US citizens. Go to Mexico illegally, how are you treated? Have you went to Canada? Illegally?

    The Unites States is the #1 place people want to come to - we are a country of laws that have to be followed. If you stop following laws (allowing illegals to cross borders, partake in social care etc) then why have any laws at all? Laws HAVE to be followed or there is civil chaos.

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    Show me in the wording of Trumps EO that identifies anything to do with religious affiliation. If you can't - then its not a muslim ban, its a ban on a country and all the people of that country regardless of religion.

    Obama's repealing of wet foot/dry foot wasn't toward Catholicism but towards the legalities of Cuban's coming to America legally.

    Trump should build an EO based on exactly what Obama did with Cuba and expand it to every country in the world. Come here legally, immigrate legally, be vetted properly .... and welcome to your new country when your'e accepted with open arms. being here illegally isn't acceptable anymore, that crime needs stopped now

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    conservativecat Wrote: According to the Pew Research Center in 2010, there were 50 Muslim-majority countries

    Trump used 7 countries Obama’s administration identified as high threat levels. If this were a muslim ban like the alt-left is saying, why didn’t Trump ban all 50 countries?

    Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. If a country put a temp ban on USA, would that be a Christian ban? No – you wouldn’t call it that at all would you?

    Trump specifically said it’s NOT a ban on anyone’s religious choice, he’s banning all the muslims and Christians and Hindu’s and Buddhists and atheists equally and fairly until there is a better vetting system. That’s what it is, calling it anything else is a lie.

    Democrats cannot say illegal - they say undocumented. They can't say a temp ban on heavily infested ISIS countries, they have to say muslim ban. They do this to create division, hate, to keep the anger going from losing the election the media swore Hillary couldn't lose.

    First of all - Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million more votes than Donald, but we already have a few threads discussing how undemocratic the Electoral College is so please respond to those if you want to keep talking about that.


    Donald can say it's not a Muslim ban all he wants, but banning people from countries whose population is overwhelmingly Muslim is pretty cut and dry to any logical thinking person.

    It's also interesting how Donald supporters just blindly follow whatever he says. Donald left out Saudi Arabia - you know, the country where fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were from, in his Muslim ban. Could that be because he has business dealings there? Egypt and the UAE - two more countries he has business dealings with, but whose citizens have killed many Americans - were also eerily absent from his decree.

    So maybe we "alt-lefties" should rephrase it to "Donald's Muslim ban minus the countries he has business dealings in."

    conservativecat Wrote: I suspect Trump threw it out there, let the left use their resources to identify flaws so his next one they’ll have to accept based on the decisions of the first. People with authorized legal entry should be allowed - and that number should be few.

    As Donald likes to say - wrong!!

    It's now public knowledge that Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller wrote the ban in secret without coordinating with the various departments that would be tasked with implementing the ban. The White House has already admitted that Donald didn't even read the damn thing before signing it.

    conservativecat Wrote: You would therefore call it a Catholic ban right? Stay consistent.

    You are either willfully ignorant or just unable to understand basic facts.

    conservativecat Wrote: 1 in 6 kids hungry, 20 trillion in debt, 40% of working age people don’t work, Veterans homeless ….. we cannot take in the world’s problems until we solve our own.

    The Unites States is the #1 place people want to come to - we are a country of laws that have to be followed. If you stop following laws (allowing illegals to cross borders, partake in social care etc) then why have any laws at all? Laws HAVE to be followed or there is civil chaos.

    That's what endless and pointless wars on the credit card will do.

    The 40% statistic is woefully inaccurate, but when have Donald supporters ever cared about actual facts or statistics when their "feelings" are more important?

    Maybe we shouldn't spend billions of dollars on the credit card on pointless wars and then tell the people we sent to go fight in those pointless wars to not let the door hit them in the ass when they return. It's ironic how Donald's supporters always waive their American flag and scream "support our troops!!!" while simultaneously having zero problem slashing the VA budget.

    conservativecat Wrote: other countries wouldn't take a mass migration of US citizens. Go to Mexico illegally, how are you treated? Have you went to Canada? Illegally?

    I don't have to go there illegally.

    I have this crazy awesome thing called a passport that allows me to visit there quite easily. I drive up to Canada to visit friends in Vancouver quite often and have never had any issues whatsoever and I've visited Mexico more than a handful of times with no issues either.

    Maybe it's an added benefit of my white privilege or maybe it's just because Canada and Mexico aren't as openly hostile to "the others" as Donald's supporters are.

    conservativecat Wrote: The Unites States is the #1 place people want to come to - we are a country of laws that have to be followed. If you stop following laws (allowing illegals to cross borders, partake in social care etc) then why have any laws at all? Laws HAVE to be followed or there is civil chaos.

    This is what drives me nuts about Donald supporters.

    "Illegals" aren't crossing our borders via foot. They come here legally and then overstay their visas. Just as countless Americans do in other countries. That's why your Great Wall of America won't do a damn thing to keep anyone out.

    There is no civil chaos. That's just something Donald supporters say to convince themselves that your xenophobic tendencies aren't because you're racist, but rather because you just want "law and order." Not surprisingly, the right wing has used that term for decades now and rationally minded people understand that it has nothing to do with law and order, but making sure "the others" aren't welcome here.

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    Donald can say it's not a Muslim ban all he wants, but banning people from countries whose population is overwhelmingly Muslim is pretty cut and dry to any logical thinking person.

    Its not permanent, and it doesn't include 43 other mostly muslim countries. If it was a muslim ban, it would have said NO MUSLIMS .... or like you said, it would have included ALL muslim countries.

    It didn't. He didn't put Saudi on there because he was using the 7 countries Obama's administration identified. You at least know that as fact, right? I'd be all for temp ban's on all nations world wide until we get a really good vetting system - I don't trust my country to anyone anymore, do you?

    On the election - we don't live in a pure Democracy. Never have.

    That's what endless and pointless wars on the credit card will do.

    We agree on that - I wish Obama hadn't kept us in war/conflict for 8 years, the cost is very high. I'll be very disappointing if we're in it for 4-8 more too. Withdraw, get out and let the UN fight it and we'll contribute only out % share. Let them police the world.

    Hey you asked a good question - why don't all the 12 million illegals in the US just have Mexican passports and have them stamped as they come across? If they all came here legally and overstayed - then that's ILLEGAL and they need to get out. We can't have a lawless society can we?

    which brings me to the last point ... when the protesters on inauguration day burned cars and broke windows in starbucks .... that's civil unrest/rioting. When they burned Berkeley campus to stop a man's 1st amendment rights, that too is civil unrest/rioting. The calling for assassinations - calling for a military coup ... what would you call that?

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    which brings me to the last point ... when the protesters on inauguration day burned cars and broke windows in starbucks .... that's civil unrest/rioting. When they burned Berkeley campus to stop a man's 1st amendment rights, that too is civil unrest/rioting. The calling for assassinations - calling for a military coup ... what would you call that?

    Bad, and those involved should be arrested and charged for whatever crimes they committed.

    That behavior does not represent anywhere near the vast majority of demonstrators\demostrations. Can't suggest the worst behavior is how it should be evaluated. Just like the pro-life movement\individuals should not be defined by the murdering OBGYNs doctors and\or the fire bombing of clinics.

    Extremist liberals are no different than Extremist Conservatives. How they think, and how the act are the same. Only difference is their polarizing political\policy views. They are willing to harm people and commit crimes because they believe "the cause" justifies whatever action they individually beleive is required... And I suspect mental health problems can play a huge factor with some extremists.