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Trump Voters Will be Hit Hardest After Obamacare Repeal

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    conservativecat Wrote: The US has national health care - its called the VA and it sucks, ask a vet. Its also called medicare/medicaid and its a billion dollar sucking machine that the Govt has botched as they botch everything. Double examples of failures for you

    Ask someone on Medicare if they would rather have that or be left on their own devices that allows a for profit insurance company to pick and choose their health care options.

    Ready. Set. Go...

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    Jared you can always tell a Con, particularly one from Arkansas (you just can't tell 'em much 'cuz they know everything from all that hard working'".
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    The government doesn't botch anything. Good ideas are compromised to ruination because conservative live with the idea that no matter how they accumulate wealth it is theirs to manage unilaterally, taxing is wrong and people are expendable.

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    I'm a guy on Medicare. I had emergency surgery a couple of years ago. The total cost that the hospitals, doctors, etc. wanted to charge was $79,000. That's what I would have had to pay without insurance. However, Medicare disallowed many of the charges reducing it to less than $20,000 of which I was out of pocket for less than $1,000. I also have a high deductible AARP supplementary plan.

    The point I will make is that the quality of care I received was A++. I owe my life to the doctors and nurses who treated me.

    I love Medicare....much more than my previous Aetna coverage with my employer. And I love my Medicare doctor who gives me my annual physical. Another A++.

    Of course, I am just one patient living in Colorado Springs. Maybe if I lived in a rural area with minimal medical facilities I would not be here writing this. And if Trumpcare passes, from what I have read thus far, those rural hospitals will be closing down as well. You know it's the profit thing.

    Oh I forgot to mention. My A++ Medicare doctor is an Indian immigrant.

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    Dutch why the hell are you here in the US then if this is such a crap place to live?

    You know what the best system in the world is? Nobody works, everyone gets $500,000 a year, we all get to live in million dollar mansions and have ferraris ....... wouldn't that be great? We all deserve that don't we ?

    You listed countries that have have national health plans true - what's the cost? NOTHING is free .... so who's paying for it and how and then also what things do those countries NOT have that the US does?

    The US has national health care - its called the VA and it sucks, ask a vet. Its also called medicare/medicaid and its a billion dollar sucking machine that the Govt has botched as they botch everything. Double examples of failures for you

    Yes the "billionaires" like Trump never worked like you and me; did not even pay taxes as far as I know. Got it all from his Daddy.

    Yes I had an Ferrari and now an Porsche, but worked for it.

    I guess you don't understand "economics"; in Europe the "rich" pay up to 75% taxes (sliding scale) no "loopholes". The VAT is 21% on everything you buy. Also Europe and Canada did not start any wars and did spent trillions on it (except may be Britain with the Falk Lands) Thus those governments had plenty of money to pay for an great healthcare system. Furthermore "costs are controlled for doctors and "drugs" No lobbyists are allowed either. Thus such structure works.

    Here it is an "mess" because nothing is coherent (or corrupted everyone wants an piece of the "pie") or being looked at as an "total" picture. Budgets here have no meaning ask the Pentagon. I could go on and on. The reason I'm still here is because of the Florida "sunshine" not because of what they do in this country. But shortly I'l be moving back to the South of France; just waiting to get an good price for my house here.

    Thus all of this is an self inflicted wound in this country.

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    PR you're going to have to stop the hate and name calling if you want any response. All you are doing is showing your true colors, and very well I might add and that's NOT a positive for you or the left.

    The government doesn't botch anything. Good ideas are compromised to ruination because conservative live with the idea that no matter how they accumulate wealth it is theirs to manage unilaterally, taxing is wrong and people are expendable.

    Chet Ruminski really ? I can't think of anything the Govt does better than the private sector. Ever.

    Schmidt my experience has been just the opposite. A Doctors visit paid in cash is far cheaper than one paid with insurance. Obviously cash goes right into the meat of things, while insurance has to be claimed and fought over. That was something Obamacare was a disaster on - small practices had to hire people just to fill out forms and do paperwork.

    I think there should be some standard to pricing on medical services, but then how to accomplish that is very complex. Someone pays a lot for your medicare/medicaid expenses .... your surgeries, medications etc. Who pays all that? Its not cheap .... now multiply that times 25 million or 50 million people which is how Bernie Sanders people wants to do things (Medicare for everyone)

    The cost is trillions in projections. Its simply unsustainable.

    Dutch you don't have to like Trump, but only an idiot would say he's not a masterful businessman. What he's accomplished few others in US history has. we can make every excuse for it ... but the man is ranked as one of the top 20 entrepreneurs of all time.

    I wonder how you'll like life in another country after living in the US and having what we offer here. I don't disagree there are flaws and I agree with some of the ones you point out - and every one has Fed Govt attached to them.

    The core reason is money. They don't earn it, they're not accountable for it, and so they spend it in crazy ways no sane person ever would.

    Trump is a money man ... I hope he can restore some sanity to it all.

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    Sorry Trump is not an "money"man; ( may be Mr. Wonderful of Shark Tank) he had people work for him who did understand the "business" he's just an "user". (Just uses "people" for his own gain) How many times did he go bankrupt? How many lawsuits?How many liens on his properties? What does he owes on taxes? His billions of loans ( Deutsche Bank etc./ Russia etc.?) No he did run his business as "messy" as he's running the government now. You can't change an 70 year old man. He inherited millions, so an easy start if you can find the right people to help increase that wealth. You and I probably could do it much better. I'm still amazed that this country did not check his total "money trail" before he started the "primary". He's not "clean" from shady deals, as well the New York "mob". So I absolutely don't see that an person like you who worked hard, looks up to an "crook" as Trump.

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    conservativecat Wrote: Chet Ruminski really ? I can't think of anything the Govt does better than the private sector. Ever.

    Ever?

    Did the private sector build the interstate highway system? How about the Hoover Dam?

    What about fire departments and police forces? Would you trust a for profit fire company to save your house or a private security force to protect your civil and human rights?

    conservativecat Wrote: Schmidt my experience has been just the opposite. A Doctors visit paid in cash is far cheaper than one paid with insurance. Obviously cash goes right into the meat of things, while insurance has to be claimed and fought over. That was something Obamacare was a disaster on - small practices had to hire people just to fill out forms and do paperwork.

    You pay for all of your doctors visits in cash? Do you meet him in a back alley too?

    I'm also not sure you understand how insurance works. Health insurance agents and claims adjusters were around long before Obamacare was ever passed. In fact, they were even more prevalent back then because insurance companies needed teams of people to decide whether or not someone deserved coverage. Or, if they did have coverage, whether or not the services the individual needed were billable.

    Obamacare addressed that by outlawing the practice of denying people based on preexisting conditions, ending lifetime limits, and expanding Medicaid for the poor. Unfortunately the Republican states decided that they would rather screw their own citizens over rather than implementing the Medicaid expansion in their states. That's why it's no surprise that the states who expanded Medicaid greatly expanded coverage while states that didn't only saw modest increases in coverage.

    conservativecat Wrote: I think there should be some standard to pricing on medical services, but then how to accomplish that is very complex.

    Have you ever heard of Medicare or Medicaid?

    They tell a hospital how much they will pay for a service. Period. End of sentence.

    conservativecat Wrote: Someone pays a lot for your medicare/medicaid expenses .... your surgeries, medications etc. Who pays all that? Its not cheap .... now multiply that times 25 million or 50 million people which is how Bernie Sanders people wants to do things (Medicare for everyone)

    The cost is trillions in projections. Its simply unsustainable.

    In other words - the same system the rest of the industrialized world has.

    They have figured it out while still having thriving economies. They also have far lower mortality rates, better quality of life, and a longer average lifespan compared to the United States.

    Don't you think that we should have better statistics if our system were so awesome? If our system is so great then why do we constantly rank towards the bottom in every metric compared to the rest of the world?

    conservativecat Wrote: Dutch you don't have to like Trump, but only an idiot would say he's not a masterful businessman. What he's accomplished few others in US history has. we can make every excuse for it ...

    Anyone can be a "masterful businessman" if they inherited billions of dollars from daddy.

    What, exactly, has he accomplished? His name is on a bunch of hotels. So is Conrad Hilton's. And Hilton didn't file for corporate bankruptcy six times or use daddy's money to build his empire.

    Trump would be much richer if he invested daddy's money in index funds and just sat on his ass for the rest of his life. So he's actually the exact opposite of a successful businessman because he has lost more money than his daddy gave him.

    That's what's so weird about Donald supporters. You have convinced yourselves that he's some awesome businessman when in fact he's a massive failure who has declared bankruptcy multiple times. What's terrifying though is that bankrupting a private business is a hell of a lot different than bankrupting a country.

    conservativecat Wrote: but the man is ranked as one of the top 20 entrepreneurs of all time.

    Have you lost your damn mind? Top 20 entrepreneurs of all time? He wouldn't even crack the top 200.

    You do know that "all time" is longer than the past couple decades, right? Railroad and oil titans would make Donald Trump look like a poor person. And they actually did something other than placing their names on a handful of hotels and golf courses with the money that daddy gave them.

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    PR you're going to have to stop the hate and name calling if you want any response. All you are doing is showing your true colors, and very well I might add and that's NOT a positive for you or the left.

    What makes you think I want or expect a response from you? You have nothing of value to contribute here or anywhere else for that matter.

    I learned many, many years ago that you can't have a debate with a Con. They have no idea of reality and no desire to ever learn only reinforce their lifelong biases.

    PS - I don't hate you, I despise your ignorance, lack of intellect, arrogance, self-serving way of thinking about yourself and trying to blame your faults on others but, that's the mark of a Con.

    Actually we eat up Cons like you and spit them out constantly here. You are no better or worse than any of the others, just the latest rendition. If I thought you were capable of being convinced of anything other than the lies, half-truths and BS you have digested and thrown up your whole life I would try but I'm way past that stage in life.

    No, I don't hate you just your uneducated and narrow minded beliefs.

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    Getting back to the subject.

    Right now I don't have an clue what the GOP will do. Trump invited an whole bunch of these "loony's" to go "bowling" with them in the White House. He is using every dirty trick in the book including threats to get them to approve the "Trump care" plan. I don't call that Democracy. You may as well appoint the "mob" to run this country. The point is that all these "weasels" are afraid to loose their job. So they continue being super hypocrites as well learned in the Army to say "Yes" Sir! as an bunch of "robots"

    Already most health organizations are against the bill such as AARP, Doctors, Hospitals, Pill makers etc.

    It is time again to have an huge demonstration all over to torpedo this bill. I hope that the DNC now finally shows that they have an backbone.

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    conservativecat said:

    "Chet Ruminski really ? I can't think of anything the Govt does better than the private sector. Ever."

    Strawman and subjective. I never compared the govt to private sector. Subjective because the government does everything better you just don't want to pay for it. Constant conservative budget cuts are the only limiting factor of government programs. Conservativecat you are getting extremely cordial treatment for your pattern of challenging axioms and making remedial statements. Why don't you try stating your idea about something instead of sitting in the audience and criticising thought out ideas. I can't remember the last time constant subjective bantering was tolerated. Say something original for once instead of constantly bickering about the foundation of this country "United We Stand". For instance strike out the mandate penalty and pay for it out of the defense budget. The most defensive action a country could have is a healthy citizenry.

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    conservativecat Wrote:

    I highly doubt my premiums triple, my deductible skyrockets and my coverages go down at the rate it did since Obamacare.

    I'm curious to see people pick apart what the GOP has proposed. Is it good, bad, ugly ....

    The republican plan will kill more poor people.

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    Cut and kill. Cut taxes and kill more poor people. That is natural selection isnt it? Remember Trump's campaign promise, insurance for everybody???
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    conservativecat, How is this going to turn out:

    "Jan 17, 2017 - Repealing Obamacare: Trump says fast, Congress says slow ... "We're going to have insurance for everybody," Trump told The ...

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    CNN)President-elect Donald Trump is putting the finishing touches on an Obamacare replacement plan that aims to provide "insurance for everybody," he told The Washington Post.
    Also, he will demand that drug companies negotiate directly with Medicare and Medicaid and lower their prices, saying they will no longer be "politically protected."
    Trump did not reveal any details of how he'd accomplish this daunting task, noting that he is waiting for his health secretary nominee, Tom Price, to be confirmed. Price is appearing before the Senate Health, Education, Labor & Pensions Committee on Wednesday, but his hearing before the crucial Senate Finance Committee has yet to be scheduled.