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Is the stock market rigged ?

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Is the stock market rigged and should something be done about it ? I think it is not only rigged but actually legally rigged. Should it be fixed or is it just the "American Way". Here is what is happening at the expense of worker's retirement money:

    "How 401(k) Plans Are Losing and Will Lose Your Money by Investing in Mutual Funds" **

    In order to manage huge sums of money mutual funds are the likely answer for 401k plans. So retirement money is put into funds which are large slow targets. Legalized front running allows select investors to take billions of dollars from these large slow targets. Select investors are allowed to see market information before it becomes public and select investors are allowed to see stock orders before they are placed and these select investors are allowed to use this information to place and have orders executed first. Then the mutual fund order comes in and buys the same stocks at a higher price. Then the select investors sell their just purchased stock for a profit. All in milli seconds. Is the market rigged? Yes and they brag about it.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    Rigged by the rich and big banks, Wall Street is responsible for creating the great depression.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dockadams Wrote: Rigged by the rich and big banks, Wall Street is responsible for creating the great depression.
    They create a depression for a select group of people every 3 to 12 years or so.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dockadams Wrote: Rigged by the rich and big banks, Wall Street is responsible for creating the great depression.

    This is a wildly over simplistic way to view the Great Depression.

    Yes, Wall Street played a roll in that and every other depression and recession. But so did a do-nothing Congress and President, a massive drought, Jim Crow laws and the subsequent migration of millions of African-Americans from the south to other areas of the country, and new technologies that began replacing workers in urban factories and farmlands...just to name a few.

    The reason I scoff at blaming Wall Street for everything that ever goes wrong in this country is because it's just plain ignorant and belies the actual facts. I am a firm proponent of strong regulations that will protect American citizens from being taken advantage of by the big financial institutions, but you lose me when you succumb to nonsense conspiracy theories and blame rich people and banks for everything that ever goes wrong in this country.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: They create a depression for a select group of people every 3 to 12 years or so.
    This is an absurd statement.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dockadams Wrote: Rigged by the rich and big banks, Wall Street is responsible for creating the great depression.

    This is a wildly over simplistic way to view the Great Depression.

    Yes, Wall Street played a roll in that and every other depression and recession. But so did a do-nothing Congress and President, a massive drought, Jim Crow laws and the subsequent migration of millions of African-Americans from the south to other areas of the country, and new technologies that began replacing workers in urban factories and farmlands...just to name a few.

    The reason I scoff at blaming Wall Street for everything that ever goes wrong in this country is because it's just plain ignorant and belies the actual facts. I am a firm proponent of strong regulations that will protect American citizens from being taken advantage of by the big financial institutions, but you lose me when you succumb to nonsense conspiracy theories and blame rich people and banks for everything that ever goes wrong in this country.

    Who was responsible for the last recession? Big banks and Wall Street. And then, our great government loaned banks and Wall Street large sums of money. Small banks failed too, lot's of them. That was just the tip of the bigger ice berg, think about the people who lost large sums of money who had invested in 401k's. During the 1980's s&l crisis, my spouse lost around $5,500 in her 401k because of it.

    You can't admit to yourself that big banks and Wall Street is rigged or they were 98% responsible for the great depression or the great recession? You think it's overly simplistic? I hope you're not a small time investor or have 401k stock investments.

    rollingstone.com/politics/news/secret-a...

    "465 failed banks from 2008 to 2012"

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bank_fail...

    "•During the Great Depression, there were several major run on banks, times during which panic struck and Americans tried to withdraw all of their money from banks."

    "•An estimated 9,000 banks failed during the 1930s and the Great Depression.

    •In 1933 alone, people who had money deposited in banks lost approximately $140 billion."

    thegreatdepressioncauses.com/facts/fact...

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Wall Street exists from fees. More and more Wall Street is stagnating more money to provide a larger principal to Take fees from. These fees are more increasingly made up not from dividends from companies but more money being invested in the name of working money but deviated to stagnation. Fees are more being paid from invested money instead of earned money. When fees equal invested money then another great depression. Fees are fast approaching invested money as the influence to invest is exaggerated by the inflated DOW which bares no resemblance to the actual avaverage of the stocks in the DOW portfolio. Compare 20,000 to an actual number lower than 238. Simply inflation to attract more money to manage and take fees from.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn said:

    "The reason I scoff at blaming Wall Street for everything that ever goes wrong in this country is because it's just plain ignorant and belies the actual facts."

    That is a total denial of who controls the laws and how they are made. Compare how who and to what extent benefits from laws. Compare the ACA to CFMA. The ACA was aimed at the middle class. The CFMA was aimed at the upper class. The ACA was immediately attacked and now trying to be destroyed. The CFMA which almost destroyed our financial system while transferring wealth from the lower to upper classes stands unscathed. A very myopic naive view to not see that the world is controlled by Wall Street. Look at the effects on the climate by deforestation and surface mining as well as the water supply by underground mines. In the little town I grew up in there was a little stream flowing through the edge of town called "Blackcrick" because it was totally black carrying the wash water away from the coal cleaning plant. Another creek joined it and it was called "Copper Creek" because of all the sulfur water drawing from shut down mines. Not a living thing in either creek. Wall Street made the black and red creeks. Everybody bows and says yes sir to Wall Street.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    "nonsense conspiracy theories and blame rich people and banks"

    jaredsxtn, What is one of those conspiracy theories?

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Kenosha, WI
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    The horrible truth about all of this is that history will repeat itself over and over.

    e.g. gas shortages of the 1970's, automakers were building those gas guzzlers, then they went little - Plymouth Horizons,

    today, they're still making those gas guzzlers, 15 m.p.g. that nobody will want if we run into a shortage, sometimes brought on by wars because our military will need those precious gallons. Americans have such short memories.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    "nonsense conspiracy theories and blame rich people and banks"

    jaredsxtn, What is one of those conspiracy theories?

    Huh? Your first two sentences in this thread read "Is the stock market rigged and should something be done about it ? I think it is not only rigged but actually legally rigged."

    The article you linked is interesting and gives pretty sage advice, but it's definitely not suggesting that the stock market is legally rigged. The whole crux of the article is to inform people how to choose the right 401(k) plan from their employer and encourages individuals to do their due diligence.

    "It is absolutely crucial that you have sound advice and guidance to navigate these troubled waters, and that you see through the smokescreen that allows mutual fund managers to make a killing while putting their investors’ money in danger."

    After reading the entire article I genuinely don't understand how you somehow came to the conclusion that it was suggesting that the market is legally rigged.


    All I'm pointing out is that facts are vastly different than conjecture. I'm a firm proponent of regulating Wall Street, but to claim that the system is legally rigged is, by definition, a conspiracy theory because it is based off your feelings and not any facts.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dockadams Wrote: Who was responsible for the last recession? Big banks and Wall Street.

    A massive international trade imbalance, two wars on the credit card, unfunded tax cuts, and irresponsible lending and borrowing were also major factors. The Congressional repeal of Glass–Steagall in 1999 also played a major factor. Simply blaming Wall Street is naive and belies the facts.

    Dockadams Wrote: Small banks failed too, lot's of them. That was just the tip of the bigger ice berg, think about the people who lost large sums of money who had invested in 401k's. During the 1980's s&l crisis, my spouse lost around $5,500 in her 401k because of it.

    I think about them all the time and I don't blame them one bit for being angry.

    Dockadams Wrote: You can't admit to yourself that big banks and Wall Street is rigged or they were 98% responsible for the great depression or the great recession? You think it's overly simplistic?

    I can't admit it because it's not true. Congress has oversight authority over our financial sector, so I blame them just as much as I do the big banks. We get the legislation (or lack thereof) that we vote for in this country.

    Businesses sole purpose is to make money and it's on the government to ensure they don't screw over the common man. If we keep electing people whose sole focus is to break apart the regulatory state then we shouldn't be surprised we the regulatory state is broken up.

    Maybe Americans should look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves why they are so willing to vote for people who promise to gut consumer protections. I know that comes across as crass, but I have a hard time feeling sympathy for someone who voted straight party ticket Republican and then gets angry when regulation meant to reign in Wall Streets practices is repealed. What did they think they were voting for?

    Dockadams Wrote: I hope you're not a small time investor or have 401k stock investments.

    I'm considered a private contractor and have a roth IRA, traditional IRA, and a high yield savings account. My wife and I also meet with our financial adviser **who has signed a fiduciary duty agreement with us** on a quarterly basis.

    Our investments are spread out across bonds, stocks, the money market, and index funds, but I'll admit that we are currently investing in higher risk areas since we are both still fairly young. Once we get closer to retirement or if there is an economic downturn then we will change our investment plan accordingly and go after the much lower risk investments.

    Here's the thing - I'm not a socialist; I'm a quasi-socialist. I firmly believe in a single-payer healthcare system, an expanded Social Security program, a livable wage, guaranteed income, and programs that make it so every person in this country has food on the table.

    What I don't believe in is allowing the government to determine how much money I can make or allow them to tell me how to invest that money. I have zero problem paying more in taxes, but I have a huge problem when the government comes in and says "we're going to tell you how much money you get to have."

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    "What I don't believe in is allowing the government to determine how much money I can make or allow them to tell me how to invest that money. I have zero problem paying more in taxes, but I have a huge problem when the government comes in and says "we're going to tell you how much money you get to have.""

    jaredsxtn,

    1. How does the government determine how much money you make?

    2.How do they tell you how to invest it?

    3. How does the government tell you how much money you get to have?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Cheect et Ruminski Wrote:

    "nonsense conspiracy theories and blame rich people and banks"

    jaredsxtn, What is one of those conspiracy theories?

    Huh? Your first two sentences in this thread read "Is the stock market rigged and should something be done about it ? I think it is not only rigged but actually legally rigged."

    The article you linked is interesting and gives pretty sage advice, but it's definitely not suggesting that the stock market is legally rigged. The whole crux of the article is to inform people how to choose the right 401(k) plan from their employer and encourages individuals to do their due diligence.

    "It is absolutely crucial that you have sound advice and guidance to navigate these troubled waters, and that you see through the smokescreen that allows mutual fund managers to make a killing while putting their investors’ money in danger."

    After reading the entire article I genuinely don't understand how you somehow came to the conclusion that it was suggesting that the market is legally rigged.


    All I'm pointing out is that facts are vastly different than conjecture. I'm a firm proponent of regulating Wall Street, but to claim that the system is legally rigged is, by definition, a conspiracy theory because it is based off your feelings and not any facts.

    The CFMA is a perfect example of legally rigged.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn, Since you have broad and extensive holdings in the stock market and have placed your plans in their hands I will factor that in responding to your Wall Street posts.