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Why do the poor have no hope?

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Polling poor people reveals they think the govetnment can't help them:

    "Finally, the poor and those not in poverty share a fatalism about ever eliminating poverty through government programs. Seventy-one percent of those in poverty and 76 percent of the nonpoor do not think the government knows enough about how to eliminate poverty to accomplish that goal “even if the government were willing to spend whatever is necessary.” The 1985 responses to this question were similar."

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Something this poll didn't address is the various different types of poor - especially the rural poor versus the urban poor. It also didn't say a word about the breakdown of their opinions by race or age.

    My alarm bells also go off whenever I see any polling conducted by the LA Times because they are known for dramatically oversampling right of center white people and under sampling left of center people of any race. I also tend to look at a single poll on a single topic by a single organization with a grain of salt.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    This might help them if they have too much money. No over time pay.

    bipartisanreport.com/2016/11/21/breakin...

  • Independent
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    Poverty goes hand in hand with free market capitalism. Some have claimed capitalism is a zero sum game. Not so. Regulated economies can provide for the broad mass of society. Free market capitalism has far more losers than winners due to the issue of wage-driven (those who seek the security of a wage and are risk averse) vs profit-driven (so-called entrepreneurs). The problem with the profit-driven is how profit is realized. Producing goods and providing services is one method. Another is financialization. Late stage free market economies will tend to financialization. Abandonment of production as well as focusing on services which tend to be a combination of low wage and superstar means that poverty will tend to increase. Social costs are ignored in free market theology. As is psychology, the environment, sociology, biology etc.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.”

    — Article I, Section 8, Clause 1

    So what exactly is meant by the "general welfare" of the United States? At one extreme, does the US government have a responsibility to ensure that there are no poor by redistributing wealth on a regular basis through taxation? Or is it more about providing equal opportunity through public education, subsidized healthcare, and no employment discrimination...all things liberals strive for. However, even with the latter, there will always be poor people.

    I maintain that even if we redistributed wealth once in a big way, it wouldn't take long before the resourceful entrepreneurs got rich again while others became poor again. We are not all created equal nor should we pretend that is the case. All we can really ask for is equal opportunity. That is what we strive for. With equal opportunity, many more will succeed...and many still won't. Often it's the result of the life choices that they made along the way.

    Then what more do we owe to the welfare of those who do not succeed and by definition are poor?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    You don't distribute wealth by taxation. That is dead end. You create wealth by turning resources into products for sale. Outlaw speculative trading. The upper classes will still own every thing and their wealth will be in real estate and the equity of their businesses . The real eastate will be the means of production. There are enough resources to provide every human a good healthy life. The choice to remove money from industry harms the national interest.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    "Then what more do we owe to the welfare of those who do not succeed and by definition are poor?"

    An opportunity to make a living wage by providing jobs in producing products for sale ot through govetnment service.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Chet --- If I follow you, then outlawing speculative trading is the solution to lift the poor out of poverty. Is that what you are saying. Outlawing speculative trading creates wealth? Huh?

    So what do you mean by speculative trading? Isn't all trading somewhat speculative? When I buy stocks in the market I'm speculating that they will go up. When farmer or rancher sells his products at a set price in the future that is speculative trading. When an airline buys fuel on the futures market they are speculating on future prices. When a business locks in a currency rate for a future investment, they are speculating and minimizing their risk. When an insurance company sells you insurance they are speculating that you will not have to make a claim.

    Of course there is much more...people and organizations minimizing risk by buying derivatives. In a sense it's transferring the risk (at a price) from firms that cannot afford to take the risk to firms that make it their business to understand and quantify risk. That is speculative trading...and it's good for the economy.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Schmidt, Let me make this as simple as possible. You are coming from a position that says the ultimate reason and guiding authorIuty for existence is hoarding. I am saying the ultimate reason and guiding authority for existence is existance. You give profit as the absolving end that justifies means. I say that life is the absolving end that justifies means. You say people have a right to alter life for profit. I say people have a right to alter life to promote life. I am against speculation that has no interest in the underlying entity. There are futures and derivative contracts that serve a purpose of providing stability and existence to an entity. But with the advent of profit justifies the means creation of the CFMA engineered and rushed through by Senator Grahm et al an industry was created that has the potential to absorb the operating capital of product and jobs producing segment of the financial system. There are derivative contracts that exist only to create incomes by pure disinterested non related gambling about object entities. They are identical to off track betting. The attraction is the simplicity and ease of generating income with no involment in, to or with the underlying entity. Consequently this practice has attracted and accumulated an enabling securitising that dwarfs the GDP of the world. It has strangled and deprived the world of working capital for true economies. The consensus of the Democratic and Republican establishment is "great system". The consequence and undeniable consequence is a "derivative" president. He has no interest in the country only what the "country can do for him". People must replace profit as the prime motivation. Off market betting has to be recriminalized. Buy stocks that support jobs and live off the earnings and dividends as most of the lower class believes is the stock market. Making profits and living off investments that deprive people of a livelihood is counter to the national interest. The entire existence of entitlements and rules and regulations comes from the violation of US money leading to the crash of 29. Money has to be put to work and not used as the quadrillion dollar bank for derivative gambling. Having skin in the game is working at a job in the economy that produces consumables creating sustainability. Go to work !!

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    Schmidt, Let me make this as simple as possible. You are coming from a position that says the ultimate reason and guiding authorIuty for existence is hoarding. I am saying the ultimate reason and guiding authority for existence is existance. You give profit as the absolving end that justifies means. I say that life is the absolving end that justifies means. You say people have a right to alter life for profit. I say people have a right to alter life to promote life. I am against speculation that has no interest in the underlying entity. There are futures and derivative contracts that serve a purpose of providing stability and existence to an entity. But with the advent of profit justifies the means creation of the CFMA engineered and rushed through by Senator Grahm et al an industry was created that has the potential to absorb the operating capital of product and jobs producing segment of the financial system. There are derivative contracts that exist only to create incomes by pure disinterested non related gambling about object entities. They are identical to off track betting. The attraction is the simplicity and ease of generating income with no involment in, to or with the underlying entity. Consequently this practice has attracted and accumulated an enabling securitising that dwarfs the GDP of the world. It has strangled and deprived the world of working capital for true economies. The consensus of the Democratic and Republican establishment is "great system". The consequence and undeniable consequence is a "derivative" president. He has no interest in the country only what the "country can do for him". People must replace profit as the prime motivation. Off market betting has to be recriminalized. Buy stocks that support jobs and live off the earnings and dividends as most of the lower class believes is the stock market. Making profits and living off investments that deprive people of a livelihood is counter to the national interest. The entire existence of entitlements and rules and regulations comes from the violation of US money leading to the crash of 29. Money has to be put to work and not used as the quadrillion dollar bank for derivative gambling. Having skin in the game is working at a job in the economy that produces consumables creating sustainability. Go to work !!

    I'm an bit surprised at all of this. If you have an sliding scale on taxes as in Europe, then there can be equal distribution of wealth. But down here the "begging" country of the world, individuals or food drives etc. have to collect money and take care of the poor. In the Netherlands for instance all the refugees get support as soon as they arrive and EU 2600 to start as well monthly support including kids support money, until they find an job. I don't see the US doing that, we rather spent it on "wars" or "defense" and make our billionaires even richer. But yeah socialism here is an dirty word, ask Bernie.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Not to belabor the point, buy since we're on the topic of poor, I thought some of you might find this article of interest especially if you are seniors...

    Have You Ever Heard The Term ‘Piss Poor?’ I Had No Idea It Comes From THIS! Fascinating!

    Of course, I cannot attest to the accuracy of any of the statements. You decide.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Not to belabor the point, buy since we're on the topic of poor, I thought some of you might find this article of interest especially if you are seniors...

    Have You Ever Heard The Term ‘Piss Poor?’ I Had No Idea It Comes From THIS! Fascinating!

    Of course, I cannot attest to the accuracy of any of the statements. You decide.

    Nice pictures and story; but yeah the homeless in 2016 don't live much better; except "plastic" sheeting instead of straw. As well dumpsters you can dive in, or rip an ATM machine from its foundations or grab an "bag" from an old lady etc. But Trump will give them jobs in the re-opened coal mines. So who is complaining? Ughe , ughe
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    People, party of the people.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Ohio ensures minimum wage doesn't go up. Hold the poor down because they're not bright enough to notice and they may vote for you as well.

    m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_584aff42e4b0...

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote:

    Ohio ensures minimum wage doesn't go up. Hold the poor down because they're not bright enough to notice and they may vote for you as well.

    m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_584aff42e4b0...

    Yes Tony; they love Trump there; so let's see if his "promises" improve life there. I doubt it. The "billionaires" will profit, not them. Keep them "dumb" that works. If you did not noticed yet, this is an "capitalistic" country; thus only "prepared" for the rich.