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We need better education

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Dutch has made numerous posts on how our education system has failed us. I don't necessarily agree with everyone of his points, but certainly knowledge of civics is sorely lacking.

    Huffington Post: America’s Schools Could Be Partly To Blame For Donald Trump’s Rise

    “This shock to our system, I think, requires a comparable investment in civics education,” said Kahlenberg. “We have to teach kids a love of democratic values because the point isn’t that Trump had a certain position on trade or abortion or any other issue, but he was running against what had been broadly accepted constitutional norms.”

    "The report argues that students must learn to think critically and make informed decisions as citizens and future voters. They need to appreciate the factors critical to a functioning democracy, like civil rights."

    In canvassing for both Obama and Clinton, I was almost shocked how little people knew about how our government functions. And the younger they were, the less knowledgeable they were on government. For many of the older generation, I was appalled how they hated government, blaming them for their circumstances in life. They are fodder for people like Trump to feed them anger and hate for their own political gain. Ignorance was a big factor in the election.

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Yes, but it has been a conscious decision by those in power (the Republicans particularly) to keep the electorate dumb and misinformed. As Trumpy said many time while campaigning "I like dumb supporters".

    As long as the majority of americans believe the Bible is a factual text, everyone needs to carry a gun, whites are superior to all other races and Bud Light is good beer we are in deep shit.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Consider the right wing propaganda machine condemning government, saying the problem is government, big government, government is in the way, praising deregulation and on.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    "americans believe the Bible is a factual text"

    And that is just the beginning. There is no limit on private interpretations, exaggeration ad infinitum declaring how God will intervene in specific instances e.g. god will punish you for that.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote:

    Yes, but it has been a conscious decision by those in power (the Republicans particularly) to keep the electorate dumb and misinformed. As Trumpy said many time while campaigning "I like dumb supporters".

    As long as the majority of americans believe the Bible is a factual text, everyone needs to carry a gun, whites are superior to all other races and Bud Light is good beer we are in deep shit.

    Schmidt and P.R. I of course fully agree; however the schools should have also psychology classes related to human behavior and human interface as well " the issue of cause and effect" . Here they just "do" things, but seldom look at the consequences; like this election and its "odd" way of electing in which the people here are too "uneducated" to differentiate between "facts" and "fiction" The biggest thing is lacking knowledge of the world and other cultures. By pumping in only how great this country is, without comparing it to other countries, that creates an "island" mentality. I did give classes in the far east about aircraft logistics and interfaces which gave me great pleasure because they were eager to learn. Down here I have the idea that football, baseball, basketball have the priorities instead of learning what the world and its inhabitants is all about. In other words they lack here the basic knowledge of human interface in work, politics, and the world around us.

    P.R.'s remark about "Bibles" is right on; "believing" without scrutinizing either "facts" or "fiction" puts the "brakes" on open minded/analytic thinking, also during the rest of their lives..

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Dutch, I completely agree. However, regarding Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Fishing, I don't think anyone believes those are of great importance except that laws, wages, wealth imbalance and many other factors have left so many in a miserable place. Therefore a 3 hour period of time where one can escape their misery makes it welcome. Of course a great book or a walk in nature could do the same but a simple people need a loud major distraction so the negative thoughts in their heads shut up for a while.

    Tremendous talent exists all over this country. It's a huge battle to get them to chose "your college" because good talent wins. IT AMAZES ME, That these racist people are alright with Young blacks attending because it will bring some sports joy. IT AMAZES ME MORE that young men being offered a free education, medical coverage, etc. Choose to go to Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Oklahoma, or other southern schools where they want you to thrive in football but not enjoy a meal or a piece of pie at the diner.

    An escape is what all fans are looking for.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Human rights is the solution to all problems. Once it is accepted that people have a right to live without suffering then progress will be made.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote:

    Dutch, I completely agree. However, regarding Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Fishing, I don't think anyone believes those are of great importance except that laws, wages, wealth imbalance and many other factors have left so many in a miserable place. Therefore a 3 hour period of time where one can escape their misery makes it welcome. Of course a great book or a walk in nature could do the same but a simple people need a loud major distraction so the negative thoughts in their heads shut up for a while.

    Tremendous talent exists all over this country. It's a huge battle to get them to chose "your college" because good talent wins. IT AMAZES ME, That these racist people are alright with Young blacks attending because it will bring some sports joy. IT AMAZES ME MORE that young men being offered a free education, medical coverage, etc. Choose to go to Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Oklahoma, or other southern schools where they want you to thrive in football but not enjoy a meal or a piece of pie at the diner.

    An escape is what all fans are looking for.

    Tony, yes you are right. I saw this morning an statement of Pence where of course he thanked "god" and mentioned "prayers"to help him and we should "pray" a lot to help this "dictatorship" etc. Sure "god" interfered in the elections.Wow, No it was not "God" but the worldly "Jesus" freaks who did it. I guess if this Pence makes mistakes and will "pray" then everything will be "fixed" again by an never seen never talked to "ghost" who could care less about Pence or the "Bible belt" Shaking my old head, what an ignorant/naive asshole is that Pence. ( "Pens" means in Dutch, "fat belly")
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Those persons think God controls everything and so no man should worry about climate change. In that world you are not responsible. God is.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Economics.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: In canvassing for both Obama and Clinton, I was almost shocked how little people knew about how our government functions. And the younger they were, the less knowledgeable they were on government. For many of the older generation, I was appalled how they hated government, blaming them for their circumstances in life. They are fodder for people like Trump to feed them anger and hate for their own political gain. Ignorance was a big factor in the election.

    This last paragraph stood out to me because it reminded me of how little I was taught about civics and government during my K-12 education. Hell, if it weren't for one teacher that made it his mission to teach his pupils about civics then I may have graduated high school with the most rudimentary understanding of civics and government.

    I constantly remind myself how lucky I am for that one teacher though. He sparked my interest in civics, government, and history. If it weren't for him then I would have never picked up Howard Zinn's "A People's History Of The United States," a book that changed my life forever. Unfortunately, far too many people in this country haven't been as lucky as I was.


    I can't speak for older generations, but I do lament how so many people in my generation have decided to just not participate in our democracy because they have convinced themselves that it just doesn't matter. To them Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are one in the same and no amount of facts will ever get them to change their minds.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    I was appalled how they hated government, blaming them for their circumstances in life.

    Not lack of education but the result of incessant right wing propaganda decrying government.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Arizona
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    "The American education system has focused on “market values” over “democratic values” for the past several decades, according to a new report from the public policy research center. Rather than preparing students to be responsible members of society, the report argues, schools have chiefly taught them to compete in a global marketplace. "

    This was the most alarming part. Not that market competition should be swept under the rug, but Trump has already exploited these kinds of values in the younger electorate. We now have a partial explanation for why the internet crawls with Trump supporters, in contrast with the left-leaning norms of tech-savvy people in their mid-20s.

    I agree with Dutch as well. If younger voters had a stronger grasp of cause and effect, they could have seen Hillary as, at the very least, a preventative measure against DJT.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote: In canvassing for both Obama and Clinton, I was almost shocked how little people knew about how our government functions. And the younger they were, the less knowledgeable they were on government. For many of the older generation, I was appalled how they hated government, blaming them for their circumstances in life. They are fodder for people like Trump to feed them anger and hate for their own political gain. Ignorance was a big factor in the election.

    This last paragraph stood out to me because it reminded me of how little I was taught about civics and government during my K-12 education. Hell, if it weren't for one teacher that made it his mission to teach his pupils about civics then I may have graduated high school with the most rudimentary understanding of civics and government.

    I constantly remind myself how lucky I am for that one teacher though. He sparked my interest in civics, government, and history. If it weren't for him then I would have never picked up Howard Zinn's "A People's History Of The United States," a book that changed my life forever. Unfortunately, far too many people in this country haven't been as lucky as I was.


    I can't speak for older generations, but I do lament how so many people in my generation have decided to just not participate in our democracy because they have convinced themselves that it just doesn't matter. To them Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are one in the same and no amount of facts will ever get them to change their minds.

    Jared, "history of the United States" Wow; that changed your life forever? shaking my head. An history of only 300 years??

    What about the history of the world and all its inhabitants and cultures? Millions of years instead of only 300 years?

    No wonder that they preach in church here that the earth is only 6000 years old. If your "thread" is correct that means that this country is totally "UNEDUCATED", but they know all about "football" Don't make me laugh.

  • Independent
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    Scytale Wrote:

    "The American education system has focused on “market values” over “democratic values” for the past several decades, according to a new report from the public policy research center. Rather than preparing students to be responsible members of society, the report argues, schools have chiefly taught them to compete in a global marketplace. "

    This was the most alarming part. Not that market competition should be swept under the rug, but Trump has already exploited these kinds of values in the younger electorate. We now have a partial explanation for why the internet crawls with Trump supporters, in contrast with the left-leaning norms of tech-savvy people in their mid-20s.

    I agree with Dutch as well. If younger voters had a stronger grasp of cause and effect, they could have seen Hillary as, at the very least, a preventative measure against DJT.

    Your first sentence is very telling. It underscores what I call the Von Hayekization of society. You (not you personally) are no longer a citizen, you are a consumer. I got the idea from Wolfgang Streeck's book "Buying Time: The Delayed Crisis of Democratic Capitalism" in which he posits that the EU is Von Hayek's Dream. The economies of the various nations become controlled by unaccountable econo-technocrats (my term) and away from the democratic process. The goal of free market capitalism is to prevent the people from having any say in the single most critical aspect of the organization of society. Capitalism requires government to exist but needs authoritarian control to truly thrive. During the golden age of capitalism (the post war era) capitalism didn't thrive in the eyes of these zealots because there were fewer millionaires created even though the people as a whole did better.

    as for civics again the impact of the consumer society requires workers to work and those same workers must be consumers. That wages would not balance required consumption is managed by constantly extending credit. So we see schools shifted from education to drone creation via nonsense espoused by free market think tanks. We see for profit "colleges" honing the drones evermore. The end game which is already here can be seen in what Dalton Conley calls the red shift in his book "Elsewhere, U.S.A." which describes not simply inequality between the 1% and the 99% but also within the 1%. In addition constant connectivity, home offices, the gig economy have all contributed to increased economic anxiety. And of course lower down we gave a combination of the servant economy (as discussed by Jeffrey Faux in his book of the same name) and the superstar economy where particular members of the service economy can command high fees due to a combination of talent and networking. But those superstars will service the plutocrats who will pay. The rest of the service economy will service the servants. Neo-feudalism is here and it is likely here to stay.