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Block Everything

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  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    Any elected Democrat that supports anything that Trump or the Republicans put out will be Primaried. After what they did to Obama and what kind of a person Trump is, that cannot be allowed. If you think that by justifying or being weak in the face of tyranny it will be better for you think again. The man is obviously opposed to everything we believe in.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Keith Hays Wrote: Any elected Democrat that supports anything that Trump or the Republicans put out will be Primaried. After what they did to Obama and what kind of a person Trump is, that cannot be allowed. If you think that by justifying or being weak in the face of tyranny it will be better for you think again. The man is obviously opposed to everything we believe in.

    We have to think in the big picture here and not reflexively say we will block any and everything throughout the next four years.

    I am mortified that Donald Trump is our President-elect, but we can't stoop to the level that Republicans have gone to throughout his Presidency. We have to use our limited minority power in the Senate to try to convince some more moderate Republicans to not follow him in lock-step and shutting those moderate Senators will walk away in a heartbeat if we just refuse to compromise on anything at all.

    The only way we will regain the majority in either house of Congress is by coming forward with concrete counter proposals that will resonate with the majority of the country.

  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Keith Hays Wrote: Any elected Democrat that supports anything that Trump or the Republicans put out will be Primaried. After what they did to Obama and what kind of a person Trump is, that cannot be allowed. If you think that by justifying or being weak in the face of tyranny it will be better for you think again. The man is obviously opposed to everything we believe in.

    We have to think in the big picture here and not reflexively say we will block any and everything throughout the next four years.

    I am mortified that Donald Trump is our President-elect, but we can't stoop to the level that Republicans have gone to throughout his Presidency. We have to use our limited minority power in the Senate to try to convince some more moderate Republicans to not follow him in lock-step and shutting those moderate Senators will walk away in a heartbeat if we just refuse to compromise on anything at all.

    The only way we will regain the majority in either house of Congress is by coming forward with concrete counter proposals that will resonate with the majority of the country.

    That is not going to work. You get no brownie points for being nice. The big picture is that this guy is going to take a lot of peoples rights away and he going to try to make it look like he doing you some favors to get it. He won't be. This is not a time for Democrats to rollover and take it, that ship sailed and sank. The Republicans held the entire government hostage for 6 years. They block an elected president from doing his constitutional duty of appointing a supreme court justice. We are outside the norms now. Whatever can be done to block him needs to be done at all levels.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    They are strong and able. We are disorganized, weak and pitiful. We can do next to nothing. MAYBE if we get new leadership in the party, maybe they can start to rebuild and hope for limited success in 2 years and maybe more in 4 years. I just wonder what damage a conman, his evil VP, Republican Senate and Congress as well as a cabinet of fools, a slanted supreme court and an uneducated populace can do in the next 4 - 7 3/4 years. Throw in a greed ridden religious community and, well hell, I am feeling optimistic already. NOT.
  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    TJ Wrote: They are strong and able. We are disorganized, weak and pitiful. We can do next to nothing. MAYBE if we get new leadership in the party, maybe they can start to rebuild and hope for limited success in 2 years and maybe more in 4 years. I just wonder what damage a conman, his evil VP, Republican Senate and Congress as well as a cabinet of fools, a slanted supreme court and an uneducated populace can do in the next 4 - 7 3/4 years. Throw in a greed ridden religious community and, well hell, I am feeling optimistic already. NOT.

    We are very organized, but older Democrats are used to playing too nice. We have the majority, we have the country, we have the next generation, and now we have the demographics. They can't do anything about that, they know they are on the way back into the wilderness. This will be the height of the power and they want to do the most damage they can on the way out. We can't let them do it.

    ...and we have the best community organizer in the world.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    If you have informed specific details about why anyone should feel any optimism at all I would love to hear about it. Just not wanting bad things to happen falls far short of reality. I am listening and very curious. Bad people will certainly do bad things.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    The nice guy always comes in second. It's about time the Dems learned how to fight for what they want instead of trying to make everyone like them. Some people will never like you, just get over it and fight ;)
  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    Primarily what you want to do is find out what they want you to do and not do it. Keep finding out what they want and then don't do it. If they want you to vote for something that you really like, don't. If they want you to move off the street sit down. If they want you to believe a Authoritarian racist who hangs out with white nationalist is not really all that bad, DON'T.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Think about (or look it up) how government works. Then find a dictionary and look up the words: majority, partisan, and supremacy.

    We have a Bingo in the second row. These politicians actually believe that they know how well over 300 million people should live their lives. To help us they will attempt to change as many laws as they can to take making choices out of the equation.

    In spirit you sound like you have good intentions but I am suspecting youth may have limited your exposures. If I am wrong (again) I will listen if you have any workable ideas.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Keith Hays Wrote: That is not going to work. You get no brownie points for being nice. The big picture is that this guy is going to take a lot of peoples rights away and he going to try to make it look like he doing you some favors to get it. He won't be. This is not a time for Democrats to rollover and take it, that ship sailed and sank. The Republicans held the entire government hostage for 6 years. They block an elected president from doing his constitutional duty of appointing a supreme court justice. We are outside the norms now. Whatever can be done to block him needs to be done at all levels.

    There are areas where we absolutely have to stand firm and refuse to negotiate and others where we will have to work with moderate Senators on the other side of the aisle to thwart or rewrite legislation that would be more favorable to the left.

    The House will try to shove their far-right legislation down our throats, but it is imperative for Democratic Senators to try to persuade a handful of Senators on the right side of the aisle to be a check on the legislative process. Refusing to work with potentially moderate Senators who, by the way didn't even vote for Trump, out of spite will only push them to fall in line with the far right.

    We have to work with the system we have and I'd much rather get 40 percent of something I want over zero percent.

  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Keith Hays Wrote: That is not going to work. You get no brownie points for being nice. The big picture is that this guy is going to take a lot of peoples rights away and he going to try to make it look like he doing you some favors to get it. He won't be. This is not a time for Democrats to rollover and take it, that ship sailed and sank. The Republicans held the entire government hostage for 6 years. They block an elected president from doing his constitutional duty of appointing a supreme court justice. We are outside the norms now. Whatever can be done to block him needs to be done at all levels.

    There are areas where we absolutely have to stand firm and refuse to negotiate and others where we will have to work with moderate Senators on the other side of the aisle to thwart or rewrite legislation that would be more favorable to the left.

    The House will try to shove their far-right legislation down our throats, but it is imperative for Democratic Senators to try to persuade a handful of Senators on the right side of the aisle to be a check on the legislative process. Refusing to work with potentially moderate Senators who, by the way didn't even vote for Trump, out of spite will only push them to fall in line with the far right.

    We have to work with the system we have and I'd much rather get 40 percent of something I want over zero percent.

    If Republican senators are 100% on our side then yes, but if not then no. The compromise thing will not work in this case. First Democrats suck at it. We lost this election in no small measure because we created a market based system when every Democrat wanted single payer with price negotiation. Obama Care is a 40% (really more like 10%) of what we wanted. Is it in anyway useful to anyone now. No, no, no. We will not compromise any more.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Keith Hays Wrote: If Republican senators are 100% on our side then yes, but if not then no. The compromise thing will not work in this case. First Democrats suck at it. We lost this election in no small measure because we created a market based system when every Democrat wanted single payer with price negotiation. Obama Care is a 40% (really more like 10%) of what we wanted. Is it in anyway useful to anyone now. No, no, no. We will not compromise any more.

    Well then you are going to be even more angry than you are now when moderate Republicans are forced to side with the more radical forces in their party.

    There are many ways we can make it difficult for Trump to ram his legislation through. We can filibuster legislation on a whole host of issues, but that isn't going to work when McConnell moves to eliminate the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices. That's when Democrats are going to have to figure out a way to peel away three Republicans and convince them to vote against that. Democrats will have a far better hand to play if they are willing to negotiate with some moderate Republicans in the Senate.

    I get your anger, but now is not the time to stop thinking rationally. Don't let your perfect be the enemy of the good.

  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Keith Hays Wrote: If Republican senators are 100% on our side then yes, but if not then no. The compromise thing will not work in this case. First Democrats suck at it. We lost this election in no small measure because we created a market based system when every Democrat wanted single payer with price negotiation. Obama Care is a 40% (really more like 10%) of what we wanted. Is it in anyway useful to anyone now. No, no, no. We will not compromise any more.

    Well then you are going to be even more angry than you are now when moderate Republicans are forced to side with the more radical forces in their party.

    There are many ways we can make it difficult for Trump to ram his legislation through. We can filibuster legislation on a whole host of issues, but that isn't going to work when McConnell moves to eliminate the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices. That's when Democrats are going to have to figure out a way to peel away three Republicans and convince them to vote against that. Democrats will have a far better hand to play if they are willing to negotiate with some moderate Republicans in the Senate.

    I get your anger, but now is not the time to stop thinking rationally. Don't let your perfect be the enemy of the good.

    Lets play this from the fully cynical and political way of thinking. I don't care what McConnell does. I fully expect that he will do exactly what you say regardless of what we do. I expect that Trump will do exactly all of the things he said he was going to do while he was campaigning(and not what he is saying at the moment)...also regardless of what we do. We can be complicit in that or not. The results of all of Trumps actions will be an unmitigated disaster for him, the country...and especially the very people who voted for him. McConnell will have lifted the filibuster and its possible that Roe will be overturned. Which all sounds really horrible (and it will be) which it will be until the next election at which time Trump will not be reelected(or if its 8 years he will be gone), the Republican party will be synonymous with Trump-ism. Roe will not be there to motivate the remaining true conservatives to the polls. By this time, this backlash from the overreach will be I expect on a level that is unimaginable. Anyone who was complicity with the thing they will do will fall with them. Whomever remains standing on the battlefield will have the chance to truly bring the country together and actually help those in need which will most certainly be great by that time. So, no I am not angry at least not in sort of unstable way that you intended it, but there is someone who is at the head of a party that will make every attempt to tear apart the fabric of this country for his own purposes and we need to make anyone who would do that pay for there actions both legally when it is over and politically for the next 50 to 60 years.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I read all of the arguments; however my feeling is Trump will fall flat on his face way before that governing decisions are being made, because of his own business and the appointments he made. The Dem's have to be keen on catching him on unlawful practices (right now already) and nail him , then impeach him. So who is going to watch the "hen" house and catch him in the act. That should be the main priority of the Dem's.
  • Democrat
    Tennessee
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    Dutch Wrote: I read all of the arguments; however my feeling is Trump will fall flat on his face way before that governing decisions are being made, because of his own business and the appointments he made. The Dem's have to be keen on catching him on unlawful practices (right now already) and nail him , then impeach him. So who is going to watch the "hen" house and catch him in the act. That should be the main priority of the Dem's.
    I share that belief. There is even a possibility he gets impeached by the Republicans who would prefer Mike Pence. I am not holding out a lot of hope for that; they have not shown that they actually hold any real values, but we will see.