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Thank you Larry Womack. This said it all. This crazy double standard and the warped views of 60 % of our country make me believe that the US is a genuinely f 'd up place. Yes we have countless great things here but we have ignorant folks in every nook and cranny and pointing out the problem will merit a shrug at best. Because everyone's drunk grandfather belittled their amazing grandmother. This crazed mentality not only became accepted, it became the norm.

In my book... our lowest moments include: treatment of American Indians, Slavery and subsequent bad actions, and last - the degradation of the gender who delivered each one of us into this world..... raised us and often did much more.

I realize that often didn't compare to the immense value of the payroll check from the nearby factory. Just listen to grandpa..... that old unimportant woman is crazy.

Chet Ruminski

2016-09-29 10:59:11 AM

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Pensacola, FL

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Schmidt, You asked me to read and comment on Hillary's plan for coal communities. In that discussion I said they were special people. You acknowledged my comment. There is nothing in Hillary's plan for coal communities that deals with the specialty of the situation. Her plan is a generic plan that appears to be written by somebody that has never stepped foot in the coal communities. It can be applied to any town or area. There are multiple special problems in coal communities. In the first place the problem areas are in the mountainous regions which the plan does acknowledge but it does not deal with the special conditions that has created. The coal community is not a town per se but an area. That is because of the hilly terrain. Because of the terrain there are no businesses or can there be. The coal miners are typically very poorly educated and working in the mines was always looked down upon. The educated and otherwise skilled moved out due to limited socialization, no job opportunities and all the other reasons like poor cell communications that cause people to move out of comparative wilderness conditions. That creates a very delicate to talk about "community". A type of business that might work is a call center. It doesn't need access to rail or high way transportation or easy access to raw materials or supplies. But it is still remote slow transportation poor communication weather challenged mobility. I haven't spent much time thinking about a solution other than Federally subsidizing these families to maintain the wilderness areas to a park like status. Due to attrition of the adaptable population what remains are communities of low potential, low education, firmly rooted, low socialized almost tribal resistance to change. If you drive through one of the groupings of houses you approach through windy twisty roads at 20 to 30 mph. What happens is your approach is called ahead and people come out and sit on their porches to look at you as you drive by. So their is no plan to help these people. But there is a plan for the millions of voters.

jaredsxtn

2016-09-29 03:42:53 PM

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jaredsxtn

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Seriously Chet - try to stay on topic for once.

You're basically proving Schmidt's point that it is impossible to have a rational discussion with Hillary haters because they aren't rational to begin with. They hate her because (fill in the blank).

It is not Hillary Clinton's fault that coal country has been decimated and anyone in coal country who thinks Donald Trump will make their lives better is going to be sorely disappointed after he is sworn in and leaves them to fend for themselves.

I don't blame coal workers for the predicament that they are in, but blaming Hillary Clinton for it is sheer nonsense. At least she has a plan on paper that will try to help them find new jobs.

Populations have had to migrate for thousands of years due to drought, conflict, and a plethora of other reasons. Former coal miners aren't the exception to this rule. If the jobs aren't there anymore and aren't coming back then maybe it's time to move on. Humans have been able to do it for thousands of years. Why can't former coal miners?

lonely bird

2016-09-29 07:39:52 PM

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lonely bird

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jaredsxtn Wrote:
Seriously Chet - try to stay on topic for once.
You're basically proving Schmidt's point that it is impossible to have a rational discussion with Hillary haters because they aren't rational to begin with. They hate her because (fill in the blank).
It is not Hillary Clinton's fault that coal country has been decimated and anyone in coal country who thinks Donald Trump will make their lives better is going to be sorely disappointed after he is sworn in and leaves them to fend for themselves.
I don't blame coal workers for the predicament that they are in, but blaming Hillary Clinton for it is sheer nonsense. At least she has a plan on paper that will try to help them find new jobs.
Populations have had to migrate for thousands of years due to drought, conflict, and a plethora of other reasons. Former coal miners aren't the exception to this rule. If the jobs aren't there anymore and aren't coming back then maybe it's time to move on. Humans have been able to do it for thousands of years. Why can't former coal miners?

Migration? Oh, yes very simple and easy. Humans do not migrate easily. Especially in the context of psychological inputs. Why do people stay when a hurricane is coming? Why do they stay when flood waters are rising? Yes, many do leave. And many do not. So it is with home. Generations in one place yet jobs are gone.

TJ

2016-09-29 07:56:06 PM

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Central, FL

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Jared made a good point. Coal was used too damned long. In Ohio you have to eat locally caught fish only on occasion because of mercury and other pollutants. Yes, stay in West Virginia if you like. There's gas stations, fast food restaurants, and convenience stores at the freeway exits. Replacing black lung... you're on your own there.

Chet Ruminski

2016-09-29 09:12:55 PM

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The title of the thread was what I was addressing jaredsxtn in regards to staying on topic. The title should be why politicians are disliked. I pointed out the problem with Hillary and politicians. Schmidt told me a while back to read her plan for coal communities and comment on it. I did at the time but chose not to comment because I would have to listen to the subjective drivel which I have to anyways now that I have pointed out the obvious with the coal communities. Hillary as a typical politician expounded not on objectivity but simply related generic answers to a unique situation. That is why politicians get bad reputations. The coal communities pose a problem beyond the comprehension of most people. I have described the people yet there is no attempt to understand them only generic answers applicable to average socialized average intelligence people. A poor person is not a broke rich person. A poor person is of unique special characteristics that are denied by a certain element. The poor are judged inferior by that same element. Educate them, train them. Doesn't work can't work.

lonely bird

2016-09-29 10:09:02 PM

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lonely bird

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TJ Wrote: Jared made a good point. Coal was used too damned long. In Ohio you have to eat locally caught fish only on occasion because of mercury and other pollutants. Yes, stay in West Virginia if you like. There's gas stations, fast food restaurants, and convenience stores at the freeway exits. Replacing black lung... you're on your own there.

tj, i get the point. but go where? do what? how is any president going to make jobs magically appear? yes, spending on infrastructure would help immensely. but there are only so many jobs the private sector will employ as that is to their purpose. direct jobs as minsky noted is necessary.

TJ

2016-09-29 10:32:59 PM

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Central, FL

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If I lived in WV I would go to OH or PA where there are jobs. Not ideal but close enough. He'll Virginia also. If you're an ex miner these states have entry level jobs and a weekend drive back home is manageable.

lonely bird

2016-09-29 11:19:46 PM

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lonely bird

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Hillary Clinton’s Plan for Revitalizing Coal Communities

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TJ Wrote: If I lived in WV I would go to OH or PA where there are jobs. Not ideal but close enough. He'll Virginia also. If you're an ex miner these states have entry level jobs and a weekend drive back home is manageable.

ok, you're a miner who has been making how much? i don't know the wages. are you going to drive and stay somewhere for an entry level job?

Schmidt

2016-09-29 11:40:47 PM

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Schmidt

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I will certainly acknowledge that Hillary Clinton is not very popular in coal country...or maybe the more appropriate word is "hated". Yet she is the only candidate that has put forth a plan to help these folks out. Chet I'm not sure what part of the plan you do not like. It may not be specific enough for you, but it is a $30 billion plan and there are real benefits to coal mining families.

In case many of you are not familiar with her plan, here is the link:

I have looked at it again and again. Sure it cannot guarantee that every citizen in coal country can have what they had in "King Coal" days. Many people migrate into others areas where jobs are more plentiful as market conditions change. The United States is full of communities where natural resources have been depleted or market conditions change and plants close. Some have been revitalized and some are looking like ghost towns. It really depends on the entrepreneurial spirit of those who chose to stay.

For those who choose to stay in coal country, she is offering a rebuilding of the infrastructure to attract other industries while also emphasizing education and job retraining. I just don't know what more she can offer. One thing she cannot do is promise to reopen the coal mines and bring coal mining back to its heydays. That what Trump has promised and can never deliver on. But he gives coal miners false hope.

Hillary is hated for telling the truth. Trump is loved for telling the people what they want to hear.

Dutch

2016-09-30 09:02:05 AM

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Dutch

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Schmidt Wrote:
I will certainly acknowledge that Hillary Clinton is not very popular in coal country...or maybe the more appropriate word is "hated". Yet she is the only candidate that has put forth a plan to help these folks out. Chet I'm not sure what part of the plan you do not like. It may not be specific enough for you, but it is a $30 billion plan and there are real benefits to coal mining families.
In case many of you are not familiar with her plan, here is the link:
Hillary Clinton’s Plan for Revitalizing Coal Communities
I have looked at it again and again. Sure it cannot guarantee that every citizen in coal country can have what they had in "King Coal" days. Many people migrate into others areas where jobs are more plentiful as market conditions change. The United States is full of communities where natural resources have been depleted or market conditions change and plants close. Some have been revitalized and some are looking like ghost towns. It really depends on the entrepreneurial spirit of those who chose to stay.
For those who choose to stay in coal country, she is offering a rebuilding of the infrastructure to attract other industries while also emphasizing education and job retraining. I just don't know what more she can offer. One thing she cannot do is promise to reopen the coal mines and bring coal mining back to its heydays. That what Trump has promised and can never deliver on. But he gives coal miners false hope.
Hillary is hated for telling the truth. Trump is loved for telling the people what they want to hear.

Schmidt, yes your last line says it all. Why? because this is the most uneducated country in the world; look at the 42% voting for Trump. You can't be educated if you live on an "island" with "island" mentality. Here you can get only educated if you bring lots of money; thus the lower classes here get their education in the "pub". But if you have an Trump University certificate, then at least you know on how to start an law suit; very educational. All of this affects elections; lack of EDUCATION. Also for coal miners this counts; but again this cost money to educate them to get other jobs.

Chet Ruminski

2016-09-30 09:51:59 AM

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Pensacola, FL

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Schmidt said:

"I have looked at it again and again. Sure it cannot guarantee that every citizen in coal country can have what they had in "King Coal" days."

Schmidt, You must not have read it correctly because here is what it says:

"That’s why Clinton announced a $30 billion plan to ensure that coal miners and their families get the benefits they’ve earned and respect they deserve, to invest in economic diversification and job creation, and to make coal communities an engine of US economic growth in the 21st century as they have been for generations."

Like I said, they don't know the people they are talking about. Coal communities can't develop into anything. It is not profitable and logistics prevent it. And it doesn't say some people will be left out.

TJ

2016-09-30 10:26:38 AM

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Central, FL

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lonely bird Wrote:
TJ Wrote: If I lived in WV I would go to OH or PA where there are jobs. Not ideal but close enough. He'll Virginia also. If you're an ex miner these states have entry level jobs and a weekend drive back home is manageable.
ok, you're a miner who has been making how much? i don't know the wages. are you going to drive and stay somewhere for an entry level job?

Not a daily drive. That is insane. You would get an apartment. Work your low wage job. Drive back to WV on a weekend visit. Thus you're maintaining family and friends. You're admitting that you got all that you could from your previous situation. You quit blaming Hillary for the fact that you're not trained and under educated and you take the lemons that life handed you and you make some lemonade. Then you go to the library. .... do a Google search for companies desperate to reduce labor costs and e mail every single one and suggest your hometown in coal country. That's how adult humans deal with a bad situation.

Chet Ruminski

2016-09-30 10:48:27 AM

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