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9/11, 15 years ago

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Fifteen years ago to day.

    The major problem with it is, that we have not learned from it; that occasion was caused due to our forever meddling in the world with our arrogance and military actions, which is still or even worse today.

    Our revenge did cost us double the US lives than the one's who got killed on 9/11 ; more than 6000 military dead a hundred thousand or more either nuts or crippled, let alone the trillions of cost. What did we get back for our revenge? Answer: only more wars and enemy's!! Are we any safer now than before 9/11; absolutely not!!

    Hitler also thought he could run the world; he was badly mistaken. Since we've got now an candidate who want to expand our military power, then I guarantee that indeed we will follow Hitlers path. All the signs are there the same as in 1936.

    Sorry 9/11 did not happen because we were friends with the whole world; due to our greed attitude we think the world is there for us alone and we can just use the world for our well being as we like. Buying "dictators", stealing their resources and using their cheap labor so we can profit, that always has been our goal. Slowly the world will wake up and will no longer accept American "meddling" into their affairs. 9/11 should have been an wake up call; however the buzzer stopped working.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    I hate what was done on that day. It was hateful violence and nothing else. I will not go the rest of my life giving major thought to the evil act. In some ways the people who did this wanted attention. They are not important and I will not give them attention. I will hold thoughts of sadness and respect to those who were lost but you don't get national holiday status for being well funded evil jerks. They don't deserve that and thus they won't get it from me.

    Dutch, in a new area, you decided this happened because the US are bad with our actions. What about Belgium ? France ? Turkey ? They and others who've suffered terrorist acts ?.... were they trying to rule the world ? NO.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    The enemy of terrorist is everybody else. Viewing the world through an ISIS perspective sees success in the last holy war.

    "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He excitedly called the Americans’ 2003 intervention “the Blessed Invasion."

    Who they kill and how they bring about the holy war is all reaching the prophecy of the "Last Holy War". It is obvious from any perspective that ISIS is challenging war. There is no amicable solution that I can see.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote:

    I hate what was done on that day. It was hateful violence and nothing else. I will not go the rest of my life giving major thought to the evil act. In some ways the people who did this wanted attention. They are not important and I will not give them attention. I will hold thoughts of sadness and respect to those who were lost but you don't get national holiday status for being well funded evil jerks. They don't deserve that and thus they won't get it from me.

    Dutch, in a new area, you decided this happened because the US are bad with our actions. What about Belgium ? France ? Turkey ? They and others who've suffered terrorist acts ?.... were they trying to rule the world ? NO.

    Tony, I thought you were smarter than that. Sorry but those attacks were the result of our wars as well dragging NATO into it, while these countries actually were not involved or approved our invasion into Iraq. Due to the US liberating Europe after WWII, NATO was formed with an agreement that if either party "is attacked" the other will help. Sorry but we were, nor NATO was attacked by Iraq. Thus it is not as you think but kind of forced down NATO's throat, to help the US with their stupid wars Result known. I repeat: Belgium, France and Turkey as part of NATO were the victim of US foreign policies, which dragged them into US created wars.

    Also I did not decide what I wrote but the rest of the world did; except the US of course. Thus you think all our "egoistic" stance in the world does not have an effect? Guess who said that we wanted the oil for us out of Iraq; our friendly M. Bush I guess. Does the US give anything for free anywhere? Of course not; we rather steal from others or corrupt their governments. There is always an catch; as long as we get better from it.

    Tony , I have the idea that you did not read what I wrote at all. The US won't learn from it, but you don't either seem to understand the background of things.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Dutch, I agree our being in Iraq never made any sense - the second time. First time Hussein had invaded Kuwait and needed his ass kicked but we should have only been a participant among 30 other nations. The last invasion.... It should never have happened. Afganistan was not smart either but I understand and agree with hunting down and killing Bin Laden. My point is Belgium didn't attack anyone. Turkey didn't attack anyone. France didn't attack but is part of NATO. Terrorist are bad people/extremists who are going to do bad things. We should be 95% out of the middle east. We should tell any US citizen who's there "You're on your own, we will not come save you so go back to Arkansas and take your bibles with you". That's my suggestion.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote: Dutch, I agree our being in Iraq never made any sense - the second time. First time Hussein had invaded Kuwait and needed his ass kicked but we should have only been a participant among 30 other nations. The last invasion.... It should never have happened. Afganistan was not smart either but I understand and agree with hunting down and killing Bin Laden. My point is Belgium didn't attack anyone. Turkey didn't attack anyone. France didn't attack but is part of NATO. Terrorist are bad people/extremists who are going to do bad things. We should be 95% out of the middle east. We should tell any US citizen who's there "You're on your own, we will not come save you so go back to Arkansas and take your bibles with you". That's my suggestion.
    Good thinking T.J. now I agree.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Hitler also thought he could run the world; he was badly mistaken. Since we've got now an candidate who want to expand our military power, then I guarantee that indeed we will follow Hitlers path. All the signs are there the same as in 1936.

    You guarantee it?

    Hitler annexed Austria and invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland. Then he declared war on the rest of Europe and Russia. Hundreds of millions of people were killed in a handful of years.

    We surely have some issues when it comes to our military industrial complex, but comparing us to the Nazi's who killed hundreds of millions of people because they wouldn't conform to their ideology is a bit (and I mean a big bit) of a stretch.

    Dutch Wrote: Sorry 9/11 did not happen because we were friends with the whole world; due to our greed attitude we think the world is there for us alone and we can just use the world for our well being as we like. Buying "dictators", stealing their resources and using their cheap labor so we can profit, that always has been our goal. Slowly the world will wake up and will no longer accept American "meddling" into their affairs. 9/11 should have been an wake up call; however the buzzer stopped working.

    Will you be singing the same tune if China becomes the new superpower and imposes their stringent communist ideology on the entire world? What if Russia becomes the new superpower and annexes all of Europe because they need Western Europe's lands for agriculture purposes?

    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Be very careful what you wish for Dutch. The world is far more complicated than blaming us stupid Americans for everything that goes wrong.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Hitler also thought he could run the world; he was badly mistaken. Since we've got now an candidate who want to expand our military power, then I guarantee that indeed we will follow Hitlers path. All the signs are there the same as in 1936.

    You guarantee it?

    Hitler annexed Austria and invaded Czechoslovakia and Poland. Then he declared war on the rest of Europe and Russia. Hundreds of millions of people were killed in a handful of years.

    We surely have some issues when it comes to our military industrial complex, but comparing us to the Nazi's who killed hundreds of millions of people because they wouldn't conform to their ideology is a bit (and I mean a big bit) of a stretch.

    Dutch Wrote: Sorry 9/11 did not happen because we were friends with the whole world; due to our greed attitude we think the world is there for us alone and we can just use the world for our well being as we like. Buying "dictators", stealing their resources and using their cheap labor so we can profit, that always has been our goal. Slowly the world will wake up and will no longer accept American "meddling" into their affairs. 9/11 should have been an wake up call; however the buzzer stopped working.

    Will you be singing the same tune if China becomes the new superpower and imposes their stringent communist ideology on the entire world? What if Russia becomes the new superpower and annexes all of Europe because they need Western Europe's lands for agriculture purposes?

    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Be very careful what you wish for Dutch. The world is far more complicated than blaming us stupid Americans for everything that goes wrong.

    Jared; it is better that you go on "vacation" again; may be you don't realize what is happening in the world around you; things work different now but the end result is always the same, however read your history books; "empires" come and "go". I don't know what school you went to; Trump University?

    I absolutely think you are only an "black" and "white" book reader; you can't compare what Hitler did with these times, but the "big" picture ( and I'm not the only one who says that) points to the same situation as in 1936. As example: Germany won most of the Olympic medals, Germany's military built up, all the flag waving, militarism etc., the market crash. All we need is an enormous market crash as well an world which wakes up and no longer accepts the bullying of the US around the world.

    The Philippines right now wants to kick out all the US military personal; other countries will over time follow and want their independence back. Of course we did not invade countries all over the place; only Hitler did that, right?

    Powerblocks will change; even Trump realizes such.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared; it is better that you go on "vacation" again; may be you don't realize what is happening in the world around you; things work different now but the end result is always the same, however read your history books; "empires" come and "go". I don't know what school you went to; Trump University?

    I'm well aware of world events. I also tend to focus on learning the facts and not conspiracy theories.

    Yes. Empires do come and go and history teaches us that America will be no different. However, empires tend to crumble when they over play their hands. Hate America all you want, but you have never once explained who will fill the vacuum if we exit the world stage. That's because you know, deep down, that the world would fall into chaos if we just vanished.

    Dutch Wrote: I absolutely think you are only an "black" and "white" book reader; you can't compare what Hitler did with these times, but the "big" picture ( and I'm not the only one who says that) points to the same situation as in 1936. As example: Germany won most of the Olympic medals, Germany's military built up, all the flag waving, militarism etc., the market crash. All we need is an enormous market crash as well an world which wakes up and no longer accepts the bullying of the US around the world.

    Since when did reading books and other policy papers become a Scarlet Letter? I'm sorry, but I have a job and can't just up and go visit Syria to see what the war is like for myself. I can't just drop everything and backpack around Asia to see what people living in Shanghai, Karachi, and Mumbai think of me and my government.

    I absolutely can compare what Hitler did because it exposes your hypocrisy and inability to think outside of your disdain for American policies.

    We have been working our way out of a historic market crash of biblical proportions for the past seven plus years. What came of it? Well - the United States is still the only country that investors want to put the majority of the money in. The state of California has the worlds six largest economy and is quickly catching up to the United Kingdom and Germany. Those are facts. I know you tend to deal more with your feelings, but facts are irrefutable.


    Did our government make all the right decisions after 9/11? Absolutely not. I have lost friends - good friends - in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts. I have witnessed first hand the emotional toll war takes on people. Don't ever try to talk to me like I am some naive flag waiving idiot who blindly adheres to everything my government says.

    In the same breath, I can't stand it when people just bitch about everything just to bitch about it. It's impossible to have a legitimate debate with you because you immediately go to attacking anyone who has the balls to disagree with anything you say.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared; it is better that you go on "vacation" again; may be you don't realize what is happening in the world around you; things work different now but the end result is always the same, however read your history books; "empires" come and "go". I don't know what school you went to; Trump University?

    I'm well aware of world events. I also tend to focus on learning the facts and not conspiracy theories.

    Yes. Empires do come and go and history teaches us that America will be no different. However, empires tend to crumble when they over play their hands. Hate America all you want, but you have never once explained who will fill the vacuum if we exit the world stage. That's because you know, deep down, that the world would fall into chaos if we just vanished.

    Dutch Wrote: I absolutely think you are only an "black" and "white" book reader; you can't compare what Hitler did with these times, but the "big" picture ( and I'm not the only one who says that) points to the same situation as in 1936. As example: Germany won most of the Olympic medals, Germany's military built up, all the flag waving, militarism etc., the market crash. All we need is an enormous market crash as well an world which wakes up and no longer accepts the bullying of the US around the world.

    Since when did reading books and other policy papers become a Scarlet Letter? I'm sorry, but I have a job and can't just up and go visit Syria to see what the war is like for myself. I can't just drop everything and backpack around Asia to see what people living in Shanghai, Karachi, and Mumbai think of me and my government.

    I absolutely can compare what Hitler did because it exposes your hypocrisy and inability to think outside of your disdain for American policies.

    We have been working our way out of a historic market crash of biblical proportions for the past seven plus years. What came of it? Well - the United States is still the only country that investors want to put the majority of the money in. The state of California has the worlds six largest economy and is quickly catching up to the United Kingdom and Germany. Those are facts. I know you tend to deal more with your feelings, but facts are irrefutable.


    Did our government make all the right decisions after 9/11? Absolutely not. I have lost friends - good friends - in the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts. I have witnessed first hand the emotional toll war takes on people. Don't ever try to talk to me like I am some naive flag waiving idiot who blindly adheres to everything my government says.

    In the same breath, I can't stand it when people just bitch about everything just to bitch about it. It's impossible to have a legitimate debate with you because you immediately go to attacking anyone who has the balls to disagree with anything you say.

    Sorry, I don't bitch; just give "facts" which you like so much, as well suggestions to improve things here; I gave enough examples to make this an great country, but arrogance prevails, like I can help that. I'm certainly not the only one who has exactly the same points; European newspapers confirm this; as well Trump points to some of the anomaly's here. If you are so "studied; then you should have observed that I was talking about BEFORE the "war" in 1936. But you can't read; thus your studies are useless.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Sorry, I don't bitch; just give "facts" which you like so much, as well suggestions to improve things here; I gave enough examples to make this an great country, but arrogance prevails, like I can help that. I'm certainly not the only one who has exactly the same points; European newspapers confirm this; as well Trump points to some of the anomaly's here. If you are so "studied; then you should have observed that I was talking about BEFORE the "war" in 1936. But you can't read; thus your studies are useless.

    I assure you that I can read.

    I can also say, without a hint of doubt, that facts are not your strong points.


    Bitching about America is your Modus operandi. It's impossible for you to write a single post without attacking the country that gave you everything you have. There isn't a single day that goes by that you can't bitch about something. You ignore the rampant racism that permeates throughout Europe and rather put the blame squarely on America and not many European countries policies of subjugating their Islamic population.

    You blame America for every damn thing that goes wrong in this world regardless if it is true or not. Facts don't matter to you because facts might go against what you feel and the only thing that matters to you is how you feel.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Sorry, I don't bitch; just give "facts" which you like so much, as well suggestions to improve things here; I gave enough examples to make this an great country, but arrogance prevails, like I can help that. I'm certainly not the only one who has exactly the same points; European newspapers confirm this; as well Trump points to some of the anomaly's here. If you are so "studied; then you should have observed that I was talking about BEFORE the "war" in 1936. But you can't read; thus your studies are useless.

    I assure you that I can read.

    I can also say, without a hint of doubt, that facts are not your strong points.


    Bitching about America is your Modus operandi. It's impossible for you to write a single post without attacking the country that gave you everything you have. There isn't a single day that goes by that you can't bitch about something. You ignore the rampant racism that permeates throughout Europe and rather put the blame squarely on America and not many European countries policies of subjugating their Islamic population.

    You blame America for every damn thing that goes wrong in this world regardless if it is true or not. Facts don't matter to you because facts might go against what you feel and the only thing that matters to you is how you feel.

    Sorry, Jared. Your reaction shows exactly that you can't read or analyze things. They call that an one track mind.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Sorry, Jared. Your reaction shows exactly that you can't read or analyze things. They call that an one track mind.
    What are you asking me to read or analyze? Your conspiracy theories and hatred of this country? Your blaming America for any and everything that goes wrong in this world regardless of the facts? What, exactly, are you asking me to analyze?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Sorry, Jared. Your reaction shows exactly that you can't read or analyze things. They call that an one track mind.
    What are you asking me to read or analyze? Your conspiracy theories and hatred of this country? Your blaming America for any and everything that goes wrong in this world regardless of the facts? What, exactly, are you asking me to analyze?
    Forget it Jared; You are just an indoctrinated person, so you never will accept things which are looked at different from outside the US, you are just an "island" occupant in Oregon, nothing else. You still have to learn an awful lot about the world beyond the US. Ireland does not cut it either, because it is also an "island" which fights within itself about religion for an long time and does not have the mainland European views. I said many times ( but you don't read that) that I don't hate this country but consider this country "backwards" in many ways; for which I mentioned solutions,but the arrogance here does not want those solutions. Just look at these elections; in Europe they are laughing at this corrupt system. On MSNBC they showed an chart of of places where they have voter restrictions, brought on by the churches etc. Like in N. Carolina. You call all of that "honest"; what has that to do with "hatred"? So you consider all of the world wide "murders" by the US with their drones "peaceful" All the "wars for trillions" the right thing? Sure I bitch and rightfully so!! Guess what could have been done with all this money; indeed then if that money did not disappear in someone's pocket, then this could have been "paradise" Just open your eyes for an change, like Schmidt, T.J., Chet, P.R. and others are able to do. Forget your little protected world in Oregon. Wake up and see the world and the US as it is.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    You're just upset that I don't see the world in the same way that you see it. And instead of having a constructive debate about it, you just resort to personal name calling and trying to prove that you are right and I am wrong when in fact there's no such thing as right and wrong when it comes to how people think.

    Every thread you contribute to turns into a diatribe against America. What do voting patterns in Europe and voter restriction laws in red states have to do with 9/11? Hell - you even started this thread and still can't stay on topic.

    I agree with many things you say Dutch, but it seems like you have some need to attack people who don't agree with everything you say. Anyone who has the audacity to have a different perspective is immediately disqualified from participating in a conversation because they must be a stupid flag waiving indoctrinated idiot who lives on an island.

    That's what frustrates me about you. Learn to disagree with people without being disagreeable. I have many right of center friends and (gasp) I don't consider them the devil reincarnate.