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The Iran debacle

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I guess this country will never learn!!! On the news an US battleship opened fire on some small Iranian high speed boats, who the US claimed were harassing them. However the opposite is the case. What is the US battleship doing there close to Iran in the Persian Gulf? Already in the past an group of sailers was held captive by the Iranians for the same thing. The US has to learn that not the whole world belongs to them. We are asking for wars due to our attitude; irritating the Chinese; irritating the Russians by placing missiles in Romenia; irritating Iran over and over again while giving them 1,4 billion, 2 days after giving them 400 million. What an strange foreign policy; if you look at the whole picture. On top of that our total stupidity to place nukes in Turkey. What is wrong with this country on top of all the other stupidities. Unbelievable for the simple mind.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Do you understand the difference between warning flares and actually firing on a vessel?

    I think it's safe to say we would have actually hit the Iranian vessels had we open fire on them.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Dutch, I have not yet heard about todays events. Don't believe all that you hear though. The 400 million (at least) was Iranian money being returned to them. Fox new will tell you it was very different. Ransom. Sad how stations can out right lie for political reasons.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Do you understand the difference between warning flares and actually firing on a vessel?

    I think it's safe to say we would have actually hit the Iranian vessels had we open fire on them.

    No Jared again you refuse to see the big picture and focus only on details; the point I'm making is how the US continously manages to irritate others by acting if they own all the world seas and waterways. On top of that we create more and more enemy's with our influence peddling as well of course our drone actions all over the world. Like Trump says our "nation building" is an disaster; like why have an American University in Kabul; I can understand that they want education, but why the horrible American education? Is n't it time we fix our own education system here, instead of in Kabul?. Also what is irritating is the name of the place; why not just the Kabul University instead of adding the word "American" It shows our arrogance in the world. It is time that the US concentrates on all the things which need improvement here instead of daily screaming "terrorists" while that is the least of our problems.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    Do you understand the difference between warning flares and actually firing on a vessel?

    I think it's safe to say we would have actually hit the Iranian vessels had we open fire on them.

    Jared the news said they "fired" on them ( I did not see "flares ' on this recording); thus call the news stations that they had it wrong. Also these speedboats are very fast and they would likely not hit them anyway. The issue is what is the right of this US vessel to be there in the first place; the Iranians have the same rights I presume to be there, because their country borders that piece of water. So who is at fault here? Who is provoking who?
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared the news said they "fired" on them ( I did not see "flares ' on this recording); thus call the news stations that they had it wrong. Also these speedboats are very fast and they would likely not hit them anyway. The issue is what is the right of this US vessel to be there in the first place; the Iranians have the same rights I presume to be there, because their country borders that piece of water.

    Well the "news" you watch was wrong. The ship fired warning flares and then shot three warning shots directly into the water per international law. Trust me - if the US wanted to hit the Iranian ships then they would have.

    Dutch Wrote: So who is at fault here? Who is provoking who?

    Iran was provoking the United States. You see Dutch - there are international waters and territorial waters.

    Countries get to control their territorial waters and have the legal authority to fire on any ship that enters it and refuses to leave.

    International waters are different. International waters are just that - international.

    Do you understand the difference?

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared the news said they "fired" on them ( I did not see "flares ' on this recording); thus call the news stations that they had it wrong. Also these speedboats are very fast and they would likely not hit them anyway. The issue is what is the right of this US vessel to be there in the first place; the Iranians have the same rights I presume to be there, because their country borders that piece of water.

    Well the "news" you watch was wrong. The ship fired warning flares and then shot three warning shots directly into the water per international law. Trust me - if the US wanted to hit the Iranian ships then they would have.

    Dutch Wrote: So who is at fault here? Who is provoking who?

    Iran was provoking the United States. You see Dutch - there are international waters and territorial waters.

    Countries get to control their territorial waters and have the legal authority to fire on any ship that enters it and refuses to leave.

    International waters are different. International waters are just that - international.

    Do you understand the difference?

    Jared, you are an sick patriot; I know the difference; but you don't know our country's attitude; they think here that the "international waters" belong to the US, and we can do on such water as we please We think we have an "right" we don't. That irritates China, Iran, and many others. IT IS OUR ATTITUDE!!! get it. What about if an Russian warship enters the Gulf here (without notification); stays away 18 miles of the coast at New Orleans; they will be screaming like crazy here. Who is the hypocrite?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    People can disagree without making it a personal battle. Agree to disagree but don't make this a competition. If another has a different opinion - so be it.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote: People can disagree without making it a personal battle. Agree to disagree but don't make this a competition. If another has a different opinion - so be it.
    Tony, this is an discussion site; if an person looks at things through indoctrinated colored glasses and each time attacks me, then I try to tell it the way it is. In this case we are the cause to get us into all kind of wars with just about everyone. It is the "we can do as we please because we are the US and dictate the world what to do" that arrogant attitude will get us into trouble (and new wars) all the time.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/world/mid...l
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/world/mid...l
    Thanks Chet; indeed what the hell are our battle ships doing there; protecting Iran? If they know when they are close to the Iran 18 mile zone then they know that they are provoking Iran. Why? I guess because of our arrogance; like the example I gave if an Russian warship would enter the Gulf here but stayed outside the 18 miles zone; then they would scream blue murder here.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    It all goes back to US exceptionalism. And Career military people don't stay in the service to spread and keep peace. Just like fitness trainers don't develop high calory enticing meals. Here is something I heard about a long time ago. I will look it up, but a Russian submarine had an incident in a harbor where it should not have been.I was discussing it with a guy that had been stationed on a fast attack submarine. I asked him why the incident appeared to be downplayed. He said that our subs are in places where they shouldn't be either. Generals and Admirals aren't good contenders for the Nobel Peace prize.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Link to downplayed Russian sub incident.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarin...

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    The narrow Strait of Hormuz is an important and strategic international waterway. Iranian military ships are harassing commercial ships as well as American military ships in that waterway. Iran has threatened to shutdown that waterway on occasions. The United States routinely patrols that strait and even escorts commercial freighters from being harassed by Iran. You can see from the map below how Iran might think that the strait is "theirs" to control, much like the Chinese are laying claim to much of the South China Sea. It is only the American military presence that is stopping them.

    map of the straight of hormuz, straight of hormuz maps

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Back in 2011 Iran threatened to close the Strait of Hormuz. From the New York Times:

    "Rear Adm. Habibollah Sayyari, Iran’s naval commander, said that “Iran has total control over the strategic waterway,” and that “Closing the Strait of Hormuz is very easy for Iranian naval forces,” in remarks carried by Press TV, an official Iranian news site.

    "Both the Defense Department and the United States Navy’s Fifth Fleet, which is based in Bahrain and patrols the Strait of Hormuz, responded to Admiral Sayyari’s remarks in statements that suggested American warships would stop the Iranians if necessary.

    “The free flow of goods and services through the Strait of Hormuz is vital to regional and global prosperity,” Lt. Rebecca Rebarich, a spokeswoman for the Fifth Fleet command in Manama, Bahrain, said in an emailed response. “Anyone who threatens to disrupt freedom of navigation in an international strait is clearly outside the community of nations; any disruption will not be tolerated.”

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    And that's the way it's been year after year. Iranians keep harassing ships in the Strait and American military keeps them from taking full control. It's like continual war games going on. The question is, would Iran take full control of the Strait and decide which ships can go though and which ships cannot if the American military left the area entirely?