Forum Thread

No historian can write this campaign.

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 1 - 15 of 21 1 2 Next
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    The dynamics, contradictions, lies, emotions, covert, subvert, humor, surprises ....... of presidential election 2016 are beyond the scope of any historian to capture and memorialize. Too many events took place that will be ignored or denied based on politics, personal bias, incredibility, social awareness or elitism. Unless somebody like Guy Ritchey writes the history of 2016 it will be lost. Memory is already distorted trying to rationalize to preconceived ideas and ideals and beliefs. A Democratic candidate that is openly supported by prominent established Party Republicans. A Republican candidate at odds with the Republican Party. A Republican candidate that demeans and demonizes the sought after Office. Even writing history for the sake of history will not immunize from attack the historian that dares pin down 2016.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Yes there are many lies, distortions and misinformation being thrown about, especially by Donald Trump. What is harder to grasp, however, is whether Trump is trying to create false memories in his supporters or whether he himself is a victim of false memories. Scouring the professional literature, there is no shortage of papers on falsifying memories. Much of it is related to how one's own memory can be falsified, but the concepts can be extended to creating false memories in others. Here is one paper that addresses the topic.

    Susan Krauss Whitbourne Ph.D., February 17, 2015: Psychology Today: Why We Remember Things the Way We Want to Remember Them

    My more sinister view of Trump is that he hates Barack Obama so much, that he is trying to create false memories in others of who Barack Obama is. It started with his championing the birther movement that Obama is not being a legitimate president because of his birth. But it hasn't stopped there. He says false negative things about Obama again and again in an authoritarian way that makes his followers really believe him no matter how preposterous. He doesn't give a shit about the fact checkers calling him out. His followers don't read the fact checkers.

    He's doing the same to Hillary Clinton now...the same pattern that he has been using against Obama. It is one thing to do this for political gain counting on the low information voter to be sucked in. However, even more bothersome is the possibility that Trump is delusional and believes his own lies.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Trump accusing Obama of personally founding ISIS is one of the contradictons that deserves to both be wiped from history and permanently engraved in history. The first for how childishly irrational it is and the latter for how dangerous uncorrected 1st amendment abuses could be absorbed.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Trump is a sociopath exaggerated by success. Consider the delusion supported by a commercial jet liner branded with "Trump". That goes beyond promoting a brand. That creates a delusion.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    The ultimate transfixation is emerging from Trump. He is posturing a considerate sensitive person assessing his position. Pretending having done and given his best he does not see the support deserving of his effort. He is facing himself with a decision that he probably should withdraw in total denial that he had nothing to offer in the first place. He has achieved his goal of being chosen and now he has other duties. He exhibited great unity of family and family values probably never considering how indebted family devotion may have isolated him from reality.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The dynamics, contradictions, lies, emotions, covert, subvert, humor, surprises ....... of presidential election 2016 are beyond the scope of any historian to capture and memorialize.

    As someone who has spent many hours of their life studying American history, I can guarantee you that this election doesn't come close to the top five crazy elections our country has ever gone through. Democracy has always been extremely messy and this year is no exception.

    My favorite election to study is the 1800 election between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. That should be required studying for anyone lamenting dirty politics.

    The 1824 election where the House handed the Presidency to John Quincy Adams comes in a distant second in my opinion. That's when Andrew Jackson won the popular vote, but John Quincy Adams made a deal with Speaker Henry Clay and promised him the position of Treasury Secretary if the House gave the Presidency to him.

    The fact is that more than enough historians have seen this play before and we will see it again.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Trump is like a house guest who left their room a total mess.

    Most recently he's stated that he's in the position that he's in and It's not his fault.

    The media is evil and they're painting a bad portrait of him. There's no freaking way he did that himself. This is fine. I too believe there are many bad things to be said about the media.

    He is now talking about how it's all rigged. He's suggesting that there should be election monitors at polling places because again, if he doe's badly, there's no way it's his fault. This sounds like thugs intimidating voters. Just like his typical style. Most importantly is that it plants a seed in the shallow minds of his followers that you can just steal an election. That's something that will be discussed in back yards for many years to come. Like who you want. The process is not bad. Studies show that voter fraud happens in a percentage near 0%. If you make the stupid more stupid...... you have to live with them going forward. Sad times that we live in.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    I am looking forward to the moment when the name Trump disappears completely!

    .

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The dynamics, contradictions, lies, emotions, covert, subvert, humor, surprises ....... of presidential election 2016 are beyond the scope of any historian to capture and memorialize.

    As someone who has spent many hours of their life studying American history, I can guarantee you that this election doesn't come close to the top five crazy elections our country has ever gone through. Democracy has always been extremely messy and this year is no exception.

    My favorite election to study is the 1800 election between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. That should be required studying for anyone lamenting dirty politics.

    The 1824 election where the House handed the Presidency to John Quincy Adams comes in a distant second in my opinion. That's when Andrew Jackson won the popular vote, but John Quincy Adams made a deal with Speaker Henry Clay and promised him the position of Treasury Secretary if the House gave the Presidency to him.

    The fact is that more than enough historians have seen this play before and we will see it again.

    Well, as difficult as it is to convey the difference between normal actions and outlandish actions then those earlier elections must have in reality been super mind blowers.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The dynamics, contradictions, lies, emotions, covert, subvert, humor, surprises ....... of presidential election 2016 are beyond the scope of any historian to capture and memorialize.

    As someone who has spent many hours of their life studying American history, I can guarantee you that this election doesn't come close to the top five crazy elections our country has ever gone through. Democracy has always been extremely messy and this year is no exception.

    My favorite election to study is the 1800 election between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. That should be required studying for anyone lamenting dirty politics.

    The 1824 election where the House handed the Presidency to John Quincy Adams comes in a distant second in my opinion. That's when Andrew Jackson won the popular vote, but John Quincy Adams made a deal with Speaker Henry Clay and promised him the position of Treasury Secretary if the House gave the Presidency to him.

    The fact is that more than enough historians have seen this play before and we will see it again.

    Well, as difficult as it is to convey the difference between normal actions and outlandish actions then those earlier elections must have in reality been super mind blowers.
    Jared/Chet, I think things nowadays are done differently because of all the media and international happenings compared to the 1800's. Everything is known now immediately; in 1800 the horse and buggy had to spread the news; let alone that common folks knew what was happening in Washington; they were too busy tending the slaves. I guess at that time it was much easier to "play games" with the elections.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Dutch, Very good point. Modern communications and coverage bring actions to the public very quickly with judgements soon to follow. The old days gave a person a lot of time to benefit or suffer from news. No recordings made defending and or denying positions relatively easy. Now an entire lifetime's public pronouncements can be researched and published in a nano second.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote: Jared/Chet, I think things nowadays are done differently because of all the media and international happenings compared to the 1800's. Everything is known now immediately; in 1800 the horse and buggy had to spread the news; let alone that common folks knew what was happening in Washington; they were too busy tending the slaves. I guess at that time it was much easier to "play games" with the elections.

    There were the Napoleonic Wars, Taiping Rebellion, Dungan Revolt, War of the Triple Alliance, and countless other wars happening throughout the world during the 1800's that dwarf the wars going on in modern day.

    The telegraph also instantly sent communication throughout all areas of the world, so things were known immediately even back in the 1800's.

    If anything, people in the 1800's were far more knowledgeable about domestic and foreign happenings than the vast majority of people are now.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    That is very true . People weren't bombarded by entertainment of all sorts aimed at the right side of the brain. Entertained passively shutting off the left side, maybe even losing some of the analytical functioning.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared/Chet, I think things nowadays are done differently because of all the media and international happenings compared to the 1800's. Everything is known now immediately; in 1800 the horse and buggy had to spread the news; let alone that common folks knew what was happening in Washington; they were too busy tending the slaves. I guess at that time it was much easier to "play games" with the elections.

    There were the Napoleonic Wars, Taiping Rebellion, Dungan Revolt, War of the Triple Alliance, and countless other wars happening throughout the world during the 1800's that dwarf the wars going on in modern day.

    The telegraph also instantly sent communication throughout all areas of the world, so things were known immediately even back in the 1800's.

    If anything, people in the 1800's were far more knowledgeable about domestic and foreign happenings than the vast majority of people are now.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared/Chet, I think things nowadays are done differently because of all the media and international happenings compared to the 1800's. Everything is known now immediately; in 1800 the horse and buggy had to spread the news; let alone that common folks knew what was happening in Washington; they were too busy tending the slaves. I guess at that time it was much easier to "play games" with the elections.

    There were the Napoleonic Wars, Taiping Rebellion, Dungan Revolt, War of the Triple Alliance, and countless other wars happening throughout the world during the 1800's that dwarf the wars going on in modern day.

    The telegraph also instantly sent communication throughout all areas of the world, so things were known immediately even back in the 1800's.

    If anything, people in the 1800's were far more knowledgeable about domestic and foreign happenings than the vast majority of people are now.

    Jared, your last line I doubt; especially foreign news travelled slowly; they did not have telegraph lines until the mid 1800's .

    You are forgetting like Chet said that nowadays we get bombarded by news and info. In the 1800's everything was much more relaxed and people could concentrate on the issues in the newspapers a piece at the time. I guess you are also forgetting that the news nowadays is much more manipulated than ever; in past at least they tried to give "facts" not as now with all kinds of "sideshows" to make things "exiting".