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Confusion and obstruction to gun safety.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    The anti gun movement is about preventing all people from having guns. It is or never was about mass murders. Anti gun people use the sensationalism to build anti gun sentiment. The problem is there is no kind of legislation other than unwarranted search and seizure to confiscate all guns. So now the issue is guided by the mass murders. jaredsxtn should have identified this a long time ago as the fallacy of a strawman argument. If framed in the parameter or reducing gun ownership and access then reasonable arguments could be made to convince people of the dangers of certain types of armament. But since the anti gun people rely on the mass murders tragedy for their argument, and the only way to stop mass murders in a timely fashion is to confiscate all guns: then there is no solution. And the worse part is it is a growing polarizing mechanism. There are no more serious, long term punishments and aggressive prosecution as in the drug laws. And the drug culture and use is expanding!! What chance do "reasonable gun laws" have in controlling citizens who have shown they have no fear or respect for laws that contradict their personal choices?
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    The average person that doesn't like or want to own a gun is not motivated by mass murders. They just don't like the imminent danger that guns present. If all murders were stopped these people would still dislike guns and wouldn't have one even if only for personal protection. Instead of using the sensationalism of mass murders, the anti gun element should be directed by the personal feelings of citizens.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The average person that doesn't like or want to own a gun is not motivated by mass murders. They just don't like the imminent danger that guns present. If all murders were stopped these people would still dislike guns and wouldn't have one even if only for personal protection. Instead of using the sensationalism of mass murders, the anti gun element should be directed by the personal feelings of citizens.
    Chet, absolutely right; my view is the same as yours; no "bandaid" will help; the "wound" is already "infected" so badly that the patient is near death. Only an drastic "surgery" may help the patient.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The anti gun movement is about preventing all people from having guns.

    Who exactly is spearheading this movement to prevent all people from having guns?


    It's these types of logical fallacies that drive me nuts. People who want to pass sensible gun laws and legislate the type of weapons of war you can own have never said they want to prevent all people from having guns.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The anti gun movement is about preventing all people from having guns.

    Who exactly is spearheading this movement to prevent all people from having guns?


    It's these types of logical fallacies that drive me nuts. People who want to pass sensible gun laws and legislate the type of weapons of war you can own have never said they want to prevent all people from having guns.

    Jared; my guess is; there is no such movement. Just about one in in three households have guns. All the owners will object, so forget such movement. The NRA is here to stay, and the daily killing will continue; of the 350,000,000 plus guns around and about 100,000,000 mentally "weak" people on Prozac or other drugs, then things will continue as before.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: The anti gun movement is about preventing all people from having guns.

    Who exactly is spearheading this movement to prevent all people from having guns?


    It's these types of logical fallacies that drive me nuts. People who want to pass sensible gun laws and legislate the type of weapons of war you can own have never said they want to prevent all people from having guns.

    Hillary said it is a good idea to look at the Australian gun confiscation program.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    "It's these types of logical fallacies that drive me nuts."

    "Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton told an audience in New Hampshire last month that “Australia is a good example” of gun-control laws, so much so that it “would be worth considering” the Antipodean solution here in the United States. She, too, neglected to mention the obligatory nature of the gun buyback scheme."

    jaredsxtn, Present any scenario you want that would prevent mass murders by guns within 5 years. I say you cannot. The only way to prevent mass murders by guns is to confiscate all guns.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I have to laugh; now the Democrats want to start an discussion about gun control. This is an total joke!! In the meantime, everyone who wants assault riffles or large clips of ammunition have already purchased those; these are selling like hotcakes!! So how does the government control such? I doubt if they dare to take these away from the owners. So this "show" in our government is one big joke!!! In the Netherlands they call that: Offering mustard after the meal.

    The elections are an joke and gun control is an joke as well our foreign policies. What else?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Hillary said it is a good idea to look at the Australian gun confiscation program.

    What's so wrong with what Australia did? They passed a series of laws that specified what type of gun someone can own, makes the owner register it so there is no black market, and makes everyone who owns a firearm to obtain a firearm license. They also had a gun buyback program for the weapons that were determined to be illegal after the law passed.

    And guess what? It actually worked!

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: jaredsxtn, Present any scenario you want that would prevent mass murders by guns within 5 years. I say you cannot. The only way to prevent mass murders by guns is to confiscate all guns.

    You have to start somewhere. Saying that there's so many weapons out there already so we might as well just keep the status quo is one way to look at it, but I think of things in the long term. Five years is a blink of an eye.

    We can pass a law that makes it illegal to own an automatic weapon whose sole purpose is to kill as many human beings as possible. We can then pass laws mandating that smart guns must be the only guns sold in the United States in 'X' number of years and then stop selling guns and bullets that aren't smart.

    It will take longer than five years, but it's a hell of lot better than what we're dealing with now.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote: jaredsxtn, Present any scenario you want that would prevent mass murders by guns within 5 years. I say you cannot. The only way to prevent mass murders by guns is to confiscate all guns.

    You have to start somewhere. Saying that there's so many weapons out there already so we might as well just keep the status quo is one way to look at it, but I think of things in the long term. Five years is a blink of an eye.

    We can pass a law that makes it illegal to own an automatic weapon whose sole purpose is to kill as many human beings as possible. We can then pass laws mandating that smart guns must be the only guns sold in the United States in 'X' number of years and then stop selling guns and bullets that aren't smart.

    It will take longer than five years, but it's a hell of lot better than what we're dealing with now.

    Jared, I guess you forget that we have an NRA as well idiots in our government (like Cruz) who never will agree to anything related to guns. Sorry the damage is already done and can't be reversed, unless someone has the guts to tear up the "second amendment" and confiscate all guns in civilian hands. This will never happen, I guarantee that. Thus the killing will continue; regardless of "smart guns" since non-smart guns will remain to be readily available world wide. Plus some "smart guy" will likely sell "kits" to remove or bypass the smart thing. This country has dug that hole itself, as so many... "holes" here. The biggest joke is Obama visiting Orlando and giving an speech, which is forgotten in no time. In the meantime Scott and Rubio crawled up his butt here; while they smeared the hell out of Obama. What an bunch of hypocrites.

    Also read my "thread" above; it clearly shows that only more assault weapons are sold; not less!!!

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared, I guess you forget that we have an NRA as well idiots in our government (like Cruz) who never will agree to anything related to guns. Sorry the damage is already done and can't be reversed, unless someone has the guts to tear up the "second amendment" and confiscate all guns in civilian hands. This will never happen, I guarantee that. Thus the killing will continue; regardless of "smart guns" since non-smart guns will remain to be readily available world wide. Plus some "smart guy" will likely sell "kits" to remove or bypass the smart thing. This country has dug that hole itself, as so many... "holes" here. The biggest joke is Obama visiting Orlando and giving an speech, which is forgotten in no time. In the meantime Scott and Rubio crawled up his butt here; while they smeared the hell out of Obama. What an bunch of hypocrites.

    Also read my "thread" above; it clearly shows that only more assault weapons are sold; not less!!!

    So we should just do nothing? Should we keep letting anyone buy whatever guns they want because so many people have guns already?

    I'm someone who believes we can actually change the status quo. Mass shootings are a relatively new thing in America. Why don't we get together and figure out a way to prevent them from happening?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    jaredsxtn, Doing something and doing something that has an effect are two different things. Hillary et al have been doing something for 30 years and what we have is more guns and freedom of movement of guns and almost all states have concealed carry laws and some have open carry laws. All the result of politicians who only care about mouthing off about gun laws and doing absolutely nothing to make the country safer or better for the lower classes. That's what politicians do. Find ways to get re-elected. Not make the country safer, get re elected. Mass murders will never be stopped. The fact that a huge segment of people openly supported a Democratic Socialist is fair warning that people have had enough of being lied to and trampled on. And that group is probably the most sensible responsible group that feels disenfranchised. I would think the next group to feel betrayed will be more reactive.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    And I'll bet Bernie becomes a controling Democrat or starts a third party. He might give them a pass on this election but I'll be he either takes control of the Democratic Party or starts a third party.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    "Why don't we get together and figure out a way to prevent them from happening?"

    The only way to prevent mass murders is to expand on Hillary's Lone Wolf idea as I outlined earlier. You have now realized that no sensesible law is going to stop mass murders so it is time to deal with the problem. Lone Wolf Patrolling squads. Algorithms to process see something say something data would be very easy to write and identify and locate potential murderers. Establishing probable cause warrants could be issued to search operations. Mass murdering could be stopped within a year, as well as a lot of other murders. Facebook, Google and others already have the algorithms that they use for data mining and connecting advertising to potential customers. They probably already have data on potential felons of all types including murderers.