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An alternative perspective on Bernie Sanders

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    Dutch Wrote: Jared; thanks until now you have only "school bench" knowledge; just wait till you get my age then you will think differently about the world. Hopefully you start an job in Europe, Asia, Africa etc. even better in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia (not via the army please) and learn a few things. Write me back once you hit 75. I've got probably a lot more education than you, and can even fix Trumps plane if needed, with its "imported" Rolls Royce engines, but I don't know anything about the Oregon "health care" nursing job like you have. Ha ha.

    I just hope human civilization is still around when I reach your age considering your generation raped the planet of her natural resources, sent trillions upon trillions of tons of carbon dioxide and other pollutants into the air, killed our oceans and coral reefs, decimated our fresh water supply, and then left my generation to figure out how to deal with it because the only thing your generation cared about was yourselves.

    Thanks a bunch.

    Dutch Wrote: Anyway this is an discussion site; so don't feel like you're attacked, but learn to look at an overall picture of the world and the US position in it. You should wake up related to our foreign policies, which "stink" and bite us in the butt continuously.

    I never suggested I was attacked and I am more than able to hold my own if I am. I simply said that you make uneducated assumptions about anyone who disagrees with anything you say. Instead of stating your opinions, you typically go into attack mode and call people stupid for having the audacity to not agree with every word that comes out of your mouth.

    I also have tried to explain in a million different posts that I do look at the overall picture, but you have convinced yourself that I haven't. There's no way I can ever prove otherwise considering you think you are right about everything.

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    TJ Wrote: I entirely disagree. Too many complain about everything and offer no ideas of better solutions.
    That's my problem with just about every Bernie supporter I've come across.
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    TJ Wrote: I entirely disagree. Too many complain about everything and offer no ideas of better solutions.
    That's my problem with just about every Bernie supporter I've come across.
    Very simple TJ and jaredsxtn , Put an increasing penalty tax on derivatives and bonus tax credits on living wage producing investments. That will move money to incredible jobs producing. Increased tax revenue will pay the bills.
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Very simple TJ and jaredsxtn , Put an increasing penalty tax on derivatives and bonus tax credits on living wage producing investments.

    That alone will pay for every single thing Bernie has promised? You are living in an alternative universe if you believe that.


    Congress passes tax laws. President Bernie Sanders wouldn't be able to waive a magic wand and "poof" increase taxes on derivatives. That, and derivatives are a hell of a lot more complicated than just levying a carte blanche tax on them. Even Warren Buffet has walked back much of his criticism of them because they can be a net positive if companies "use restraint and hold a “limited amount” of them.

    And I'm not sure I follow your statement on "bonus tax credits on living wage producing investments." Are you saying that people who earn a living wage should also get an additional tax credit or tax credits? I'm not necessarily opposed to tax credits, but why would people need additional tax credits if they are already earning enough money to make a living wage?

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: That will move money to incredible jobs producing. Increased tax revenue will pay the bills.

    How would taxing derivatives lead to incredible job growth? A minimum wage that automatically adjusts with inflation is one thing, but taxing derivatives is another.

    What Bernie refuses to admit is that he will need to tax the middle class at an exponentially higher rate than they are used to if any of his proposals are going to become a reality. Increased tax revenue will pay the bills, but that increased tax revenue is going to come from the lower and middle classes, not the upper class.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    What Bernie refuses to admit is that he will need to tax the middle class at an exponentially higher rate than they are used to if any of his proposals are going to become a reality. Increased tax revenue will pay the bills, but that increased tax revenue is going to come from the lower and middle classes, not the upper class.

    If you consider our savings on healthcare and education a "tax credit," Bernie is one of the all-time greatest Middle Class net-tax cutters even with his payroll Medicare tax hikes, which are completely unnecessary.

    Taxes regulate aggregate demand, they don't give the CURRENCY ISSUING government the funds it has to spend.

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    "How would taxing derivatives lead to incredible job growth? "

    Two parts, the other part is tax credits for living wage jobs. Velocity of money. And you believe people will use restraint with derivatives as Buffet alludes? The biggest, easiest and fastest way to profits by stagnating money?

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    Taxing derivatives is not for income but to discourage investing in derivatives. By their nature derivatives require huge amounts of collateral in order for it to be profitable for brokers to make meaningful profits on small rates of return. Derivatives nationally and globally stagnate quadrillions of dollars. Denying industry to produce jobs. Derivatives are the ultimate example of getting paid without working. Giving tax credits is for new industries producing jobs.
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    Carlitos Wrote: If you consider our savings on healthcare and education a "tax credit," Bernie is one of the all-time greatest Middle Class net-tax cutters even with his payroll Medicare tax hikes, which are completely unnecessary.

    Taxes regulate aggregate demand, they don't give the CURRENCY ISSUING government the funds it has to spend.

    How are you suggesting we actually save money by having universal free college? I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's disingenuous at best to claim that it's actually going to be "free." Buildings have to be maintained, teachers and administrators have to be paid, etc.

    The same goes with healthcare. Other countries tax their citizens at far higher rates in order to pay for the services their citizens are promised. What Bernie is promising is that he will be able to pay for everything just by taxing the rich. That is either willful ignorance or outright lying.

    The only way to pay for the things he has promised is by dramatically increasing taxes on everyone, not just the wealthy. I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but Congress writes the tax laws. And if you believe the Republican dominated House of Representatives will ever hike taxes to that extent then let me know what you're smoking because I want some.

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Taxing derivatives is not for income but to discourage investing in derivatives. By their nature derivatives require huge amounts of collateral in order for it to be profitable for brokers to make meaningful profits on small rates of return. Derivatives nationally and globally stagnate quadrillions of dollars. Denying industry to produce jobs. Derivatives are the ultimate example of getting paid without working. Giving tax credits is for new industries producing jobs.

    Many people get paid without working.

    An example would be someone who inherited $5,000 from their grandparents when they passed away in 1980. The individual didn't really need that $5,000 so they invested it in a company called Apple when it went public. That $5,000 is now worth $1,290,784.51 today.

    There are countless other examples of people getting paid for not working, but for taking a risk and being either rewarded or losing everything.

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    Bernie also said he would tax derivatives. There is no easy solution to the 1.2 Trillion Dollars that college students owe.

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    "There are countless other examples of people getting paid for not working, but for taking a risk and being either rewarded or losing everything."

    Rush Limbaugh made that a point of contention describing UAW workers benefits.

    Taking a risk and being rewarded or losing everything is gambling. It used to be illegal and it should be illegal again. That would be a step in the right direction.

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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    Bernie also said he would tax derivatives. There is no easy solution to the 1.2 Trillion Dollars that college students owe.

    Bernie can ask to tax derivatives, but the Congress is responsible for the tax code.
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Taking a risk and being rewarded or losing everything is gambling. It used to be illegal and it should be illegal again. That would be a step in the right direction.

    Are you suggesting we get rid of the stock market?

    Union benefits and the stock exchange are entirely different things.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Carlitos Wrote: If you consider our savings on healthcare and education a "tax credit," Bernie is one of the all-time greatest Middle Class net-tax cutters even with his payroll Medicare tax hikes, which are completely unnecessary.

    Taxes regulate aggregate demand, they don't give the CURRENCY ISSUING government the funds it has to spend.

    How are you suggesting we actually save money by having universal free college? I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's disingenuous at best to claim that it's actually going to be "free." Buildings have to be maintained, teachers and administrators have to be paid, etc.

    The same goes with healthcare. Other countries tax their citizens at far higher rates in order to pay for the services their citizens are promised. What Bernie is promising is that he will be able to pay for everything just by taxing the rich. That is either willful ignorance or outright lying.

    The only way to pay for the things he has promised is by dramatically increasing taxes on everyone, not just the wealthy. I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but Congress writes the tax laws. And if you believe the Republican dominated House of Representatives will ever hike taxes to that extent then let me know what you're smoking because I want some.

    Jaredsxtn, see my second sentence. As crazy as it might sound, the federal government does not tax to spend. That's not how it works. They have to spend or lend the currency that they issue FIRST or we wouldn't be able to pay taxes.

    That doesn't mean the government can purchase infinite quantities of "stuff." The economy is limited by real resources.

    Given the sized output gap, the number of hidden unemployed, and the world's willingness to send us real stuff, the government deficit can be much, much larger, and it needs to be to restore "normal" economic growth.

    So we can cut taxes and increase government spending at Sanders' levels. The objection to doing so is entirely political and has absolutely nothing to do with economics. While it won't answer all of your likely questions, please see my post on National Income Accounting 101.

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    Get rid of gambling in the stock market and restore it to the definition that the public is led to believe it is. An alternate source of funding for start ups, new and existing budinesses. There is not the slightest resemblance between derivatives and the stock market as it is professed to be. Non interested parties betting on the outcome of random businesses is not a stick market. In fact you can't even buy into the most significant trading in a stock market.