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An alternative perspective on Bernie Sanders

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Robin Alperstein: On Becoming Anti-Bernie

    Trying to have a rational discussion with Bernie supporters is difficult. About a good third of them are so entrenched in his political revolution that they have lost all touch with reality. They live in La La Land. My own views of Bernie have evolved from being okay and supportive to being negative on him as I have seen how he has conducted his campaign in the closing months.

    I was going to post a blog article a while ago on my observations, but now I don't have to do that. Robin Alperstein has done considerable more research on Bernie than I have, and she has written a long article about her misgivings...being pretty blunt at times. I read her article twice and have to say, her sentiments about Bernie are my sentiments. Read it if you have time. I'll only extract two words that describe her depiction of Bernie: "intellectually dishonest".

    Thoughts?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    The "intellectual dishonesty" is on Alperstein, not Sanders. There is nothing new in Alperstein's line of attack that hasn't already been said. The entire "personal" experience is just a collection of various anti-Sanders talking points. Alperstein is a NY corporate lawyer and clearly a Wall Street Democrat. I find it highly unlikely she was just reaching some of these conclusions in February.

    In any event, she updates her post at the end and mollifies her attack on the Sanders economic program.

    If I can share my thoughts on that whole drama that 5% growth is fantasy:

    Please look at a GDP graph of the US economy. The end.

    Sanders' plan overcomes the 'deficit terrorism' inherent to his tax and spending program over a 10 year period by significantly altering incomes and the distribution, but it's not a permanent fix and Sanders' program will stall out.

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Since you asked, I'll give you five words that describe Clinton "Moderate Republican Wall Street whore"
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Schmidt, Your writing about Hillary in this forum is like you are teaching a group of immigrants how to like Hillary. I researched one accomplishment you credited to Hillary about kids aging out of the foster program. It is a total disaster with a dominant result being. Homelessness. Bernie can accomplish nothing as you predict and do better than Hillary did with foster kids. The incrementalism that you prefer for the poor can't keep up with the fast track to results for the people that don't need help.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote: Since you asked, I'll give you five words that describe Clinton "Moderate Republican Wall Street whore"

    P.R. I won't go that far; however she's in bed with the "establishment" and the "rich" as well is arrogant. I think those are the wrong qualifications for any president. She thinks she knows it all because Bill whispers things in her ear, but sorry Schmidt, she still does know very little about the world; take for instance her Libya stupidity. Drinking "tea" with world leaders, does not mean you are qualified; those people you deal with are often a different breed than their countries people who they claim to represent or their culture itself. Just like a Trump; does he think/represent an "normal thinking" human being in the US?

    Again she got into such position due to "connections" as well being the wife of an ex-president. She was trained as an US "lawyer" but still does not know how the world operates/thinks differently than the US as well their laws/rules. Her Libya "views" are tell tale.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    pr, You're capable of so much more. Oh yes, it's hating season and you've picked your target. Don't forget to pout, whine, piss and moan when your guy is left in the cold. Pick a Libretarian or Green party candidate and savor a bottle of whine... errr wine. Finally tell the world how you had all of the answers if they would all feel the bern.

    Schmidt, I very much liked the article.

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Sorry TJ but Hillary fits the definition. It's not my fault, I wish she didn't but it was her choice, not mine. Facts are facts!

    No matter, I'll still vote for her over the orange monkey.

    washingtonpost.com/politics/clintons-ch...

    Dont blame me because Hillary is a flawed candidate, blame the Democratic leadership and the misinformed. This editorial pretty much sums up who and what Hillary is.

    truth-out.org/opinion/item/36201-hillar...

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    I just don't think we should be using words like "whore" in politics.

    Can't let our baser instincts prevail. Not now. Not ever.

    We all mature at different rates, but we all reach similar conclusions.

    Bernie is not helped by unsophisticated, vile attacks on Clinton.

    Clinton people do not need encouragement and confirmation of their bias against Sanders.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Carlitos; sure attacks don't help but putting people on an pedestal because they got in there via "connections" ; the same as Trump, does not mean we are getting an president who elevates this country to an higher level.

    Therefore I repeat what I wrote:

    P.R. I won't go that far; however she's in bed with the "establishment" and the "rich" as well is arrogant. I think those are the wrong qualifications for any president. She thinks she knows it all because Bill whispers things in her ear, but sorry Schmidt, she still does know very little about the world; take for instance her Libya stupidity. Drinking "tea" with world leaders, does not mean you are qualified; those people you deal with are often a different breed than their country's inhabitants who they claim to represent or their culture itself. She sticks to our stupidity to remove "dictators" and then run away like hell. Just like a Trump; does he think/represent an "normal thinking" human being in the US?

    Again she got into such position due to "connections" as well being the wife of an ex-president. She was trained as an US "lawyer" but still does not know how the world operates/thinks differently than the US as well their laws/rules. Her Libya "views" are tell tale.

    What is her position on Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan? How are we ever going to get peace as well equality or advance in this country, if we continue on the same path? Bourdain visited a lot of places in the US where time stood still since the "war"; how about some infrastructure; such as metro's, high speed rail, improved airports, roads etc. At least Hitler built the "autobahn" system which still works today without speed limits.!!

    Sorry to say Hillary or Trump will be stuck with most of our tax money disappearing, due to our wars and waste and wrong healthcare cost management due to the lobby system here as well total inefficiency in our government by overblown budgets for certain departments. So in other words our trillions in debt did not do anything for the people in this country, except some beautiful crosses in Arlington.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    pr Wrote: Sorry TJ but Hillary fits the definition. It's not my fault, I wish she didn't but it was her choice, not mine. Facts are facts!

    2 + 2 = 4 is a fact.

    Water having two two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom is a fact.

    Hillary Clinton being a "Wall Street whore" is conjecture.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Sorry to say Hillary or Trump will be stuck with most of our tax money disappearing, due to our wars and waste and wrong healthcare cost management due to the lobby system here as well total inefficiency in our government by overblown budgets for certain departments. So in other words our trillions in debt did not do anything for the people in this country, except some beautiful crosses in Arlington.

    I really get frustrated with people who don't take the time to study things and would rather just believe their opinions are fact.

    The vast majority of tax money is spent on mandatory expenditures like Social Security, Unemployment benefits, Medicare/Medicaid, Agriculture, Veterans benefits, and transportation. That is a fact.

    Discretionary spending pales in comparison to mandatory spending. Our military spending is discretionary and not mandatory. That is also a fact.

    So if you want to have our military not have such a large budget then elect people that will cut the military budget.


    If you also studied the facts then you would understand that our debt is so high because we have mandatory expenditures, but aren't collecting enough tax revenues to pay for those mandatory expenditures. So our debt is having the exact opposite effect because we are using that debt to make sure Social Security, Unemployment benefits, Medicare/Medicaid, Agriculture, Veterans benefits, and transportation projects continue unabated.

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    pr Wrote: Sorry TJ but Hillary fits the definition. It's not my fault, I wish she didn't but it was her choice, not mine. Facts are facts!

    2 + 2 = 4 is a fact.

    Water having two two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom is a fact.

    Hillary Clinton being a "Wall Street whore" is conjecture.

    Words have many meanings sometimes. it would be difficult to say that Hillary's so called speeches to Wall St. don't fit into one of these categories.

    vocabulary.com/dictionary/whore

    You may not agree and that is ok but it still doesn't change the description. Hillary's speeches + Wall St.'s "donations" = ????

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    pr Wrote: Words have many meanings sometimes. it would be difficult to say that Hillary's so called speeches to Wall St. don't fit into one of these categories.
    vocabulary.com/dictionary/whore

    I'm more of a fan of the Oxford dictionary and not vocabulary.com.

    pr Wrote: You may not agree and that is ok but it still doesn't change the description.

    Yes, it does change the description. A private citizen giving a speech doesn't make them a whore. Al Gore has a $100,000 minimum to give a speech. Would you accuse him of being a whore if he were to run for office again?

    The list goes on and on. Former politicians get paid a lot of money to go talk to a bunch of rich people. They always have and always will.

    pr Wrote: Hillary's speeches + Wall St.'s "donations" = ????

    It equals Hillary making a few hundred thousands dollars giving speeches to Wall Street firms. Would you give a speech to someone if they offered to give you a hundred thousands dollars a pop?


    People hate Hillary because the media tells them to hate Hillary. Her stances on issues are as left leaning as you can get, but so many supposed Democrats have been convinced that she's some wolf in sheep's clothing. Take a look at her record as Senator and Secretary of State. She was about as liberal as they come, but people tend to forget that because they are brainwashed into thinking that she is the devil reincarnate.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Dallas, TX
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    Jared,

    Taking funds from financial felons in any capacity is not progressive.

    Partnering the State Department with Goldman Sach's 10,000 Women program was not progressive.

    Taking no interest in the restoration of the criminal referral process at the federal financial agencies, which has been dismantled under Clinton-Bush-Obama, is not progressive.

    Voting for the obvious disaster that would be authorizing President Bush to initiate the Iraq war was not progressive.

    Promoting and supporting Obama's foreign policy, past or present, is not progressive.

    Bernie is not perfect and some of his supporters might be the most alienated and passionate among us, but that doesn't make Clinton part of the progressive menu.

    She is at best a holding action to prevent worse, just as President Obama was and remains.

    As bad as the Democratic leadership and governance actually is, and it is intolerable and loathsome, Republicans are far worse. Voting for Democrats is like passing out clean needles to street heroin users. It's a harm reduction strategy. That's it.

    That is all Sanders' supporters need to hear to vote for Clinton in the swing states where it matters.

    Trying to force this "Clinton is a Progressive" down our throats is like a Chinese Water Drip driving us all collectively insane.

    That's what's weakening Democratic consolidation and party unity and threatening those swing state votes.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Sorry to say Hillary or Trump will be stuck with most of our tax money disappearing, due to our wars and waste and wrong healthcare cost management due to the lobby system here as well total inefficiency in our government by overblown budgets for certain departments. So in other words our trillions in debt did not do anything for the people in this country, except some beautiful crosses in Arlington.

    I really get frustrated with people who don't take the time to study things and would rather just believe their opinions are fact.

    The vast majority of tax money is spent on mandatory expenditures like Social Security, Unemployment benefits, Medicare/Medicaid, Agriculture, Veterans benefits, and transportation. That is a fact.

    Discretionary spending pales in comparison to mandatory spending. Our military spending is discretionary and not mandatory. That is also a fact.

    So if you want to have our military not have such a large budget then elect people that will cut the military budget.


    If you also studied the facts then you would understand that our debt is so high because we have mandatory expenditures, but aren't collecting enough tax revenues to pay for those mandatory expenditures. So our debt is having the exact opposite effect because we are using that debt to make sure Social Security, Unemployment benefits, Medicare/Medicaid, Agriculture, Veterans benefits, and transportation projects continue unabated.

    Jared total B.S.!!!!!! Trillions did our wars cost!!!! Which did certainly not give the man on the street any benefits. Only keeps costing money ask Trump; why raise money for Veterans? Our wars will keep costing us. Social security and its cost is peanuts compare to the trillions we spent on the military ( warships costing billions, planes costing billions etc. etc.) as well our wars itself, drones, maintenance of all that junk. We are, because of our wars, still in a huge debt; not because of social things here ask anyone in West VA. You have no clue at all about "facts" Why defend our "waste"?