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Sanders "Scorched Earth" Stance Will Only Help Trump


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    Save your breath Dutch - they don't get it and won't until it's to late!

    When Sarah Palin becomes the first female president (after Trump is impeached) they will all blame it on Bernie rather than admit they were wrong and the Democratic Party had its head in the mud when the even considered Hillary.

    salon.com/2016/05/21/this_is_a_democrat...

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    It would seem that Jared and I are not alone in our thinking. Erika D. Smith writing an opinion article, Bernie Sanders is no victim of a ‘rigged’ system, in the Sacramento Bee, pushes back on the populist narrative of the Bernie supporters that Sanders is the victim of establishment politics. She writes:

    "Bernie Sanders was supposed to be above the usual pettiness of politics. So much for that.

    "In the past few of weeks, Sanders has gone from someone seemingly capable of walking on water to someone diving headfirst into the political muck. His campaign has engaged in one ego-stroking, victim-baiting, politically calculated act after another – none of which serve the greater good of uniting the Democratic Party long enough to defeat Republican presumptive nominee Donald Trump."

    "Now this past Sunday, Sanders, making the rounds on the Sunday talk shows, called an election between Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton and Trump “the lesser of two evils.”"

    Really! Sanders believes that Clinton is the lesser of two evils. I've heard that charge against Obama by some liberal progressives as well.

    Sanders is also having a hard time accepting that he lost Kentucky by a small margin and is now asking for a recanvass of the votes there, even though at the most optimistic outlook it would flip just one delegate to Sanders. Sanders seems desperate to scrape for every delegate vote he can find, believing that somehow the super delegates will flip for him. Hence the ugly protests over the Nevada convention where he hoped to flip maybe two delegates to his side.

    This is not the Bernie Sanders who started his campaign as being above gutter politics. Now he is wallowing in the mud, not recognizing what it has done to his own image, let alone that of Hillary Clinton...in his mind, the "lesser of two evils".

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    It would seem that Jared and I are not alone in our thinking. Erika D. Smith writing an opinion article, Bernie Sanders is no victim of a ‘rigged’ system, in the Sacramento Bee, pushes back on the populist narrative of the Bernie supporters that Sanders is the victim of establishment politics. She writes:

    "Bernie Sanders was supposed to be above the usual pettiness of politics. So much for that.

    "In the past few of weeks, Sanders has gone from someone seemingly capable of walking on water to someone diving headfirst into the political muck. His campaign has engaged in one ego-stroking, victim-baiting, politically calculated act after another – none of which serve the greater good of uniting the Democratic Party long enough to defeat Republican presumptive nominee Donald Trump."

    "Now this past Sunday, Sanders, making the rounds on the Sunday talk shows, called an election between Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton and Trump “the lesser of two evils.”"

    Really! Sanders believes that Clinton is the lesser of two evils. I've heard that charge against Obama by some liberal progressives as well.

    Sanders is also having a hard time accepting that he lost Kentucky by a small margin and is now asking for a recanvass of the votes there, even though at the most optimistic outlook it would flip just one delegate to Sanders. Sanders seems desperate to scrape for every delegate vote he can find, believing that somehow the super delegates will flip for him. Hence the ugly protests over the Nevada convention where he hoped to flip maybe two delegates to his side.

    This is not the Bernie Sanders who started his campaign as being above gutter politics. Now he is wallowing in the mud, not recognizing what it has done to his own image, let alone that of Hillary Clinton...in his mind, the "lesser of two evils".

    Schmidt, I can imagine on how Bernie feels; he got "railroaded" since the day he started. No super PAC's to help him etc.

    This whole dilemma shows that this country is not ready for drastic change; thus how far do we have to "sink" before we wake up, that "corruption", bribery, catering to the "rich", billions spent on elections to get "favors", an corrupted healthcare system where the pharma and doctors can charge whatever they want; as well an Pentagon/CIA/NSA/TSA who can throw money around if it is " just water", our wars and its cost; you name it. Thus you approve that we continue this way and vote for continuing our "progress" to the "cliff"

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    Schmidt, You are absolutely correct.

    Those who disagree are probably living a life with always clenched or gritted teeth. Too bad for them. I have thought good things about Bernie but that is changing quickly. He's negative and his desperation is at the expense of the party. I will think very negative things if he continues to proceed as he's recently been doing. There are national issues that need addressed and the presumptive R candidate is both ignorant and evil. I hope we don't let the morons of the country elect a new king.

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    Dutch Wrote: Schmidt, I can imagine on how Bernie feels; he got "railroaded" since the day he started. No super PAC's to help him etc.

    This whole dilemma shows that this country is not ready for drastic change; thus how far do we have to "sink" before we wake up, that "corruption", bribery, catering to the "rich", billions spent on elections to get "favors", an corrupted healthcare system where the pharma and doctors can charge whatever they want; as well an Pentagon/CIA/NSA/TSA who can throw money around if it is " just water", our wars and its cost; you name it. Thus you approve that we continue this way and vote for continuing our "progress" to the "cliff"

    Why do you continue to insist that we need drastic change? What about having the strongest economy in the world is bad? What about having one of the highest take home pay rates among the world is bad? Seriously...study some facts for one time in your life.

    Head back to Denmark (who is ranked 16th on take home pay) if you hate this country so much. No one will stop you since we aren't a country that forces people to stay here if they don't want to.

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    Wake up and smell the coffee, both of our major political parties are so corrupt it's shameful. Delegates, Super Delegates, Zombie Delegates, tilted delegate counts, big money, officials spending time raising money instead of working and of course Citizens United. I applaud the idealistic young people whose eyes are open to this corruption and have the wisdom to know that it's wrong. They are looking at obvious facts and not some stupid conspiracy theories. Is it so jaded to stand by what you know is true instead of going for more of the same? Because of this, it would be unfortunate, if Bernie Sanders did not go all the way to the convention. There is much more than the Presidential race at stake.
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Schmidt, I can imagine on how Bernie feels; he got "railroaded" since the day he started. No super PAC's to help him etc.

    This whole dilemma shows that this country is not ready for drastic change; thus how far do we have to "sink" before we wake up, that "corruption", bribery, catering to the "rich", billions spent on elections to get "favors", an corrupted healthcare system where the pharma and doctors can charge whatever they want; as well an Pentagon/CIA/NSA/TSA who can throw money around if it is " just water", our wars and its cost; you name it. Thus you approve that we continue this way and vote for continuing our "progress" to the "cliff"

    Why do you continue to insist that we need drastic change? What about having the strongest economy in the world is bad? What about having one of the highest take home pay rates among the world is bad? Seriously...study some facts for one time in your life.

    Head back to Denmark (who is ranked 16th on take home pay) if you hate this country so much. No one will stop you since we aren't a country that forces people to stay here if they don't want to.

    Come on Jared, you can do better than that old conservative Republican mantra of "Love it or leave it"! a matter of fact, Dutch is from Holland, not Denmark and Denmark has constantly been rated as one of the best (if not the best) countries in world when it comes to quality of life. Income is NO indication of happiness, freedom or quality of life.

    Perhaps some more foreign travel would help you understand that?


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    Thanks P.R. I guess Jared loves the corruption here and is happy with it; sure I don't care what he thinks. At least I can move anytime to any place I wish. There is already an organization who helps people to move to Canada if Trump gets elected. But yeah Jared loves Hillary; so may be his tax money will be used to pay the lobbyists as well the 1%. But that is alright. All I'm trying to do is wake up people that things can be done different here, but I've got the feeling that ostriches are the majority here. So lets continue as always, only I think we should fight at least some more wars; we are for sure a blessed nation for the 1%. Hallejuja.

    Indeed the quality of life is a lot different over in Europe; "money" does not come in the first place, but happiness is number one. I doubt if any billionair is "real" happy.

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    pr Wrote: Come on Jared, you can do better than that old conservative Republican mantra of "Love it or leave it"! a matter of fact, Dutch is from Holland, not Denmark and Denmark has constantly been rated as one of the best (if not the best) countries in world when it comes to quality of life. Income is NO indication of happiness, freedom or quality of life.

    You know that Holland isn't a country, right?

    As I have said a thousand times, most European countries have a population the size of a large American city. Comparing any European country to the US is idiotic. There are many states in the United States that have a higher quality of life rating than European countries, but that's a fact people who bash all of America all the time refuse to accept.

    pr Wrote: Perhaps some more foreign travel would help you understand that?

    How many times do I have to remind people that I'm marrying an Irish citizen? She and I spent many months traveling around South America and Europe and have what you call "explorer genes." Our goal is to travel to as many countries as possible throughout our lives.

    Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

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    Dutch Wrote: Thanks P.R. I guess Jared loves the corruption here and is happy with it; sure I don't care what he thinks.

    Have I ever once said I love corruption?

    Me stating facts is not what I think; it's me stating facts.

    Dutch Wrote: At least I can move anytime to any place I wish. There is already an organization who helps people to move to Canada if Trump gets elected. But yeah Jared loves Hillary; so may be his tax money will be used to pay the lobbyists as well the 1%. But that is alright. All I'm trying to do is wake up people that things can be done different here, but I've got the feeling that ostriches are the majority here. So lets continue as always, only I think we should fight at least some more wars; we are for sure a blessed nation for the 1%. Hallejuja.

    And I'm trying to remind people that you can't wave a wand and get everything you want.

    We have a separation of powers in this country. The President is not a king. The Congress has more power than the Executive. The Courts have power over the Legislative and Executive branches.

    So many people in this country need a damn civics lesson.

    Dutch Wrote: Indeed the quality of life is a lot different over in Europe; "money" does not come in the first place, but happiness is number one. I doubt if any billionair is "real" happy.

    Tell that to the disaffected Muslim citizens living in the outskirts of Paris who have little to zero rights as Parisian citizens and tell that to the 80 million citizens in the EU who live below their poverty line.

    Europe is not some utopia. They have just as many problems as every other country and continent.

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    Jared, I guess you will never get the picture; you are very isolated in your thinking. Anyway Trump may change your thinking once he becomes President. Indeed you are the champion of "red herrings" not J.C.

    1) Indeed you love "corruption" Why? Because you want Hillary who also uses super PAC money, which corrupts. At least Bernie tries to change that.

    2) I don't wave "wands" I know how it works here; everything can be bought, including any section in the government, ask all the "lobbyists and influence peddling senators". So on "paper" it all looks "honest" but is not.

    3)It depends what you call "poverty" if I compare the "slums" of all the big cities here with Europe then there is a huge difference; in The Netherlands everyone has food and a roof above their heads including the Muslims you mentioned.

    Every refugee gets 26oo Euro's as well an dwelling, health care and social services; while the real Dutch inhabitants sometimes have to wait years to get an house. Also you would not see any "slums" over there, ask Google.

    Sorry Jared, you still have to learn a lot about the world and its inhabitants; it is not all as simple via "the books" as you were educated. As I said before copy the "good" things from other countries, not the bad one's.

    Now Trump has got all his "delegates", I fear the most that this country will go downhill even further. He wants to even eliminate the EPA, and all environmental things Obama achieved. So in no time this will be one big garbage heap country, so I suggest to purchase a gas mask as well lots of disinfectant as well buy the biggest oxygen tank you can find. I guess if he chooses our Mr. Scott as V.P. he will have an excellent polluter, so he can speed up the process.

    Jared, you must have come to the conclusion that half of this country is uneducated, otherwise they would not vote for Trump. That is of course an other discussion; the lack of "education" in this country.

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    Molly Ball, The Atlantic, May 26, 2016: This Is How a Revolution End

    This thread is supposed to be about Bernie Sanders.

    Bernie Sanders : “I believe that if we win here in California, and if we win the other five states that are voting on June 7, we’re going to go marching to the Democratic convention with a hell of a lot of momentum. I believe that if we do well here in California, we’ll march in with momentum and we’ll march out with the Democratic nomination!”

    Ball notes the shout-outs and signs from the army of the fervent Bernie supporters, the "Sanderistas", at his rally.

    "The game is rigged!"

    “The delegate system is corrupt.”

    “It’s a tool of the 1 percent, the powers that be. It should be abolished.”

    “Smash the patriarchy!” “Eliminate the 1%!”

    Clinton is “owned by the billionaires.”

    “I would vote for Trump...At least he’s challenging the status quo."

    Ball offers her view of the revolution.

    "Sanders and his people have their own sets of rules. All you have to do is unskew the delegate counts, they explain, take out the superdelegates, imagine they all vote for Sanders, imagine certain primaries had been conducted according to different rules. Angry memes about missing votes and stolen precincts ricochet around social media. Did you see what happened in Nevada, when the party, Sanders’s supporters claim, changed the rules to keep them from getting more delegates at the state convention?

    "The Sanders movement has become impervious to reality. Some have even called into question the nature of reality itself: “Bernie Sanders’ ‘political revolution’ is political only inasmuch as thought is political,” a self-described “metamodernist creative writer” named Seth Abramson wrote in the Huffington Post a few days ago. “By the very nature of things—we might call it perceptual entropy—the impossible, once perceived, enters a chain of causation whose natural conclusion is realization.” By this logic, Abramson reasons, Sanders is actually winning. It’s, like, the Matrix, man, or something."

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Molly Ball further notes that the vast majority of Sanders supporters will in fact vote for Hillary in the general election. And some are turning away from Sanders...“I was very loving toward Bernie Sanders until about a week ago, but now he’s working to elect Trump,” said one Bernie supporter not happy with the way Bernie is clinging to false hope.

    However, for the 25-30 percent of the highly passionate Bernie supporters, that passion has turned to hate, where hate for Hillary is even more pronounced than hate for Trump. Is this what Bernie has planned...a revolution underpinned by hate for Hillary, hate for the Democratic Party, hate for Debbie Wasserman Schultz, hate for the "establishment" whatever the hell that is?

    I suppose in Bernie Sanders mind, that may be okay. Or as Molly Ball asks: "Is Sanders—the onetime liberal gadfly whose views few of his colleagues heeded—simply enjoying the spotlight’s validating glow for as long as it lasts? Or is he as delusional as some of his dead-ender fans? It’s impossible to tell."

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    Dutch Wrote: Jared, I guess you will never get the picture; you are very isolated in your thinking. Anyway Trump may change your thinking once he becomes President. Indeed you are the champion of "red herrings" not J.C.

    I'm not sure you understand what a red herring is...

    Dutch Wrote: 1) Indeed you love "corruption" Why? Because you want Hillary who also uses super PAC money, which corrupts. At least Bernie tries to change that.

    This is a textbook example of a strawman argument.

    Dutch Wrote: 2) I don't wave "wands" I know how it works here; everything can be bought, including any section in the government, ask all the "lobbyists and influence peddling senators". So on "paper" it all looks "honest" but is not.

    That's your jaded view of the government, but it's not based in reality. Sure, some politicians are in it for all the wrong reasons, but there are many others who actually want to make a difference in this country.

    The way our system of governance is set up is to intentionally make things slow. That way a single party or person isn't able to hijack the whole system. Sometimes it's frustratingly slow, but that was the intention when our founders formed the Constitution.

    The vast and I mean VAST amount of governing is done at the local and state levels. Far too people think the Federal government has more power than it actually does. That's why you are so angry in Florida and I'm quite happy here in Oregon. We have a progressive mayor in Portland and a progressive governor in the statehouse. You have a right wing business man as your governor and a state house dominated by his cronies. No wonder why you're so angry and I'm quite happy.

    Dutch Wrote: 3)It depends what you call "poverty" if I compare the "slums" of all the big cities here with Europe then there is a huge difference; in The Netherlands everyone has food and a roof above their heads including the Muslims you mentioned.

    Every refugee gets 26oo Euro's as well an dwelling, health care and social services; while the real Dutch inhabitants sometimes have to wait years to get an house. Also you would not see any "slums" over there, ask Google.

    That must be why they are leaving to go fight in Syria by the thousands. It's because Europe is being too nice to them.

    Dutch Wrote: Sorry Jared, you still have to learn a lot about the world and its inhabitants; it is not all as simple via "the books" as you were educated. As I said before copy the "good" things from other countries, not the bad one's.

    I never said I don't have a lot to learn. Anyone who thinks they know everything is a narcissist.

    And as I have responded a thousand times--you can't just copy things from other countries without electing local, state, and federal officials who will copy them. You have to build a coalition that will stand together and make tough votes. America is not a monolith. There are over 300 million people with various interests. What polls well in Portland is different than what polls well in Orlando. So you have to build consensus and can't take a "my way or the highway" approach.

    Dutch Wrote: Now Trump has got all his "delegates", I fear the most that this country will go downhill even further. He wants to even eliminate the EPA, and all environmental things Obama achieved. So in no time this will be one big garbage heap country, so I suggest to purchase a gas mask as well lots of disinfectant as well buy the biggest oxygen tank you can find. I guess if he chooses our Mr. Scott as V.P. he will have an excellent polluter, so he can speed up the process.

    Jared, you must have come to the conclusion that half of this country is uneducated, otherwise they would not vote for Trump. That is of course an other discussion; the lack of "education" in this country.

    And Trump will quickly get a civics lesson if he ever tries to act like a dictator.

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    Just about 2 weeks left then it should be over. Bernie will get his "participation trophy". People in general are not big fans of Mrs. Clinton but common sense is clear. BS is affraid that in a short while it will be done. He will become a historic footnote. Perhaps he'll get an astrik as well. Sadly he'll probably sabatoge the balance of the race in an immature tantrum. 76 ? 7.6 years old. Sad....... screw things up for 300 million because you weren't as popular as you thought you were.
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    TJ Wrote: Just about 2 weeks left then it should be over. Bernie will get his "participation trophy". People in general are not big fans of Mrs. Clinton but common sense is clear. BS is affraid that in a short while it will be done. He will become a historic footnote. Perhaps he'll get an astrik as well. Sadly he'll probably sabatoge the balance of the race in an immature tantrum. 76 ? 7.6 years old. Sad....... screw things up for 300 million because you weren't as popular as you thought you were.
    You hit the nail on the head, TJ. I'm so tired of Sanders supporters throwing a temper tantrum because their candidate lost fair and square. Hillary has millions more votes than him, but his supporters continue to insist that the election is being stolen from under their feet.