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Faux of Wealthy Philanthropy & Charity

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  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-20 11:37:56 AM
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    Do billionaires get a free pass because they are billionaires. Both philanthropy and charity are defined as helping others. My observed opinion is that all the donations are strings tied self serving. Gates wants to change education in opposition to the voice of the voters. Zuckerburg created a directly self serving instrument. What qualifies me to make that observation are at least two items. First I will challenge any of them to compare their donations to discretionary income to mine. Second the only contact past, present or future I have with my recipients is the actual passing of money from my hand to theirs. Their are no huge philanthropic or charitable contributions. Starting out with identifying the money. Billionaires are buying support with money they don't have time to manage. Look at how convinced their supporters defend them.
  • jaredsxtn
    2016-03-21 02:54:54 PM
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Do billionaires get a free pass because they are billionaires. Both philanthropy and charity are defined as helping others. My observed opinion is that all the donations are strings tied self serving. Gates wants to change education in opposition to the voice of the voters.

    The Gates Foundation spends billions of dollars in eradicating diseases and providing clean drinking water to the poorest people in the world.

    The foundations main priority in America is making sure that the children of America are up to speed with the rest of the industrialized world with regards to education. If you have any foreign friends then they will tell you how inadequate our education system is compared to the rest of the world.

    I just had dinner with my fiance and her friend from Jamaica last night. Ten year old Jamaicans have to test out on things that sixteen year old Americans do. She went to college in America (at a prestigious University in the Pacific Northwest) and was bored for her first two years because she already knew everything she was being taught.

    The world is leaving us behind in education and the Gates Foundation is trying to help reverse that. What's so wrong with that?

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Zuckerburg created a directly self serving instrument.

    An instrument that will undoubtedly help millions of people rise out of poverty.

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: What qualifies me to make that observation are at least two items. First I will challenge any of them to compare their donations to discretionary income to mine. Second the only contact past, present or future I have with my recipients is the actual passing of money from my hand to theirs. Their are no huge philanthropic or charitable contributions. Starting out with identifying the money. Billionaires are buying support with money they don't have time to manage. Look at how convinced their supporters defend them.

    Do you donate 99% of your income to charity?

  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-21 04:21:34 PM
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    Neither do they. They are not donating income. The biggest critique of Gates is omitting help to the poorest of nations.
  • jaredsxtn
    2016-03-21 04:42:16 PM
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Neither do they. They are not donating income. The biggest critique of Gates is omitting help to the poorest of nations.

    Do you honestly believe this? Really--do you honestly believe this or are you just angry that you're not as rich as him?

    Have you researched any of his foundations philanthropic work or are you just angry at all rich people? The foundation has almost single handily wiped out major diseases not just in a country, but an entire continent. My goodness...take your blinders off and try to understand that his foundation has saved millions upon millions of lives.

  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-21 11:28:55 PM
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    jaredsxtn:"The foundation has almost single handily wiped out major diseases not just in a country, but an entire continent". jaredsxtn, I found instances of reduced instances of some diseases and some at the detriment of more general base programs. But no rradication of any disease credited to the Gate's. My point is if it is charity then why not omit the tax deduction. Let the country you are a citizen of benefit in addition to the recipient country. I would venture that sounds preposterous to you. If in fact it does sound incomprehensible then that is how far apart we are on the concept of what a country is, stands for and how it should operate.
  • lonely bird
    2016-03-22 08:08:59 AM
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    i will say this once:

    the gates foundation knows nothing about education. i do not care how many experts they have. the gates foundation pushes failed experiments such as charter schools.

    you want to change education?

    here are the two things that must be done:

    1) look at the countries that are "passing us" and see what they do and perhaps think about duplicating it.(btw, read diane ravitch's book "reign of error" for insight into the so-called education problem)

    2) look at systemic problems such as poverty which derive directly from the very system that gates supports. cities, rural areas and societies are delicate, complex systems. when we see creative destruction (read: labor destruction) combined with financial manager capitalism the end result is a society that discards some cities wholesale in order for companies to move to low wage areas. the encouragement of short-termism does nothing for the overwhelming majority of people who need good paying jobs to not only live but to consume since EVERY economy is based upon consumption of products created.

    jared, i do not give a damn how much money gates has. i do not give a damn how much money that fraud zuckerburg has. good for them. what is not good is the assumption that people who make a lot of money immediately are experts on all other subjects. zuckerburg wants everyone connected. to what end? what good is connection without food, water, shelter and medical care?

    this country has an especially amazing capacity to worship people who make a shitload of money as though they are somehow morally superior and possessed of all knowledge while ignoring the problems created by the very system that allowed those few people to make that money.

  • Dutch
    2016-03-22 08:43:18 AM
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    lonely bird Wrote:

    i will say this once:

    the gates foundation knows nothing about education. i do not care how many experts they have. the gates foundation pushes failed experiments such as charter schools.

    you want to change education?

    here are the two things that must be done:

    1) look at the countries that are "passing us" and see what they do and perhaps think about duplicating it.(btw, read diane ravitch's book "reign of error" for insight into the so-called education problem)

    2) look at systemic problems such as poverty which derive directly from the very system that gates supports. cities, rural areas and societies are delicate, complex systems. when we see creative destruction (read: labor destruction) combined with financial manager capitalism the end result is a society that discards some cities wholesale in order for companies to move to low wage areas. the encouragement of short-termism does nothing for the overwhelming majority of people who need good paying jobs to not only live but to consume since EVERY economy is based upon consumption of products created.

    jared, i do not give a damn how much money gates has. i do not give a damn how much money that fraud zuckerburg has. good for them. what is not good is the assumption that people who make a lot of money immediately are experts on all other subjects. zuckerburg wants everyone connected. to what end? what good is connection without food, water, shelter and medical care?

    this country has an especially amazing capacity to worship people who make a shitload of money as though they are somehow morally superior and possessed of all knowledge while ignoring the problems created by the very system that allowed those few people to make that money.

    Lonely, yes you got it right. On this site we discussed this issue before; indeed these people just want credit, for their "generocity", however people in for instance Africa may want total different things than they provide. Like in Central Africa, no Bill Gates in sight. Africa is huge; the poor people there just want to have a peaceful life, without all the western hoepla; just having their hut, goat and enough to eat and drink that makes them happy; not a cell phone or a Cadillac.
  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-22 02:39:34 PM
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    Essentially saying they have so much money they have to hire people to give it away but they won't give it to their country.
  • jaredsxtn
    2016-03-22 03:32:40 PM
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: jaredsxtn:"The foundation has almost single handily wiped out major diseases not just in a country, but an entire continent". jaredsxtn, I found instances of reduced instances of some diseases and some at the detriment of more general base programs. But no rradication of any disease credited to the Gate's.

    Do you honestly believe that eradicating polio and trying to prevent people from getting malaria is a detriment to the people who suffer from it?

    Chet Ruminski Wrote: My point is if it is charity then why not omit the tax deduction. Let the country you are a citizen of benefit in addition to the recipient country. I would venture that sounds preposterous to you. If in fact it does sound incomprehensible then that is how far apart we are on the concept of what a country is, stands for and how it should operate.

    It sounds preposterous to me because someone who gives away 99% of their income shouldn't then be expected to be taxed on the donation. It seems as if you're lumping in philanthropists like Warren Buffet and Bill and Melinda Gates with right wing zealots like the Koch Brothers who spend their fortunes for their own political purposes.

    I just think that's a really sad way to look at life.

  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-23 12:38:58 PM
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    Copied from an unofficial post resulting from searching "World Leader" :
    The United States leads the world in three categories.
    Number of incarcerated citizens per capita,
    Number of adults who believe angels are real, and
    Defense spending.
    Source: info@premieroffshore.com
    But there are categories left out. The USA is number one in number of billionaires. Very near the top in come inequality.
    Other anecdotal the US leads in most
    divorced, highest in credit card fraud, highest incarceration and obesity.
    I don't have a sad perception. I have a comprehensive impression of a sad and growing inequality. The chance to change the country from an oligarchy to capitalist is lost because of Democratic support for Hillary. The republican party satisfied with Hillary picking a justice over Trump and becoming President is remarkable. A critique of the elections was susceptibility to money buying an office. In the case of billionaire philanthropic choices they bypass the election process. They create their own policy with gifts of billions of dollars.
  • jaredsxtn
    2016-03-23 04:36:51 PM
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    What does any of that have to do with Bill Gates opening up a philanthropic charity?

    Trust me--I want to dramatically overhaul our criminal justice system, take God out of politics, and slash military spending, but none of that has to do with rich people feeding starving people throughout the world.

    Inequality is rising because the world is growing smaller and smaller and people who don't have a post secondary education no longer have the ability to compete for many jobs in America. People who didn't graduate high school used to be able to get a job at a manufacturing plant, but those days are long gone. And whatever manufacturing jobs that are left aren't anything like what they used to be.

    Do I want to figure out a way to reverse the rampant inequality in America? Absolutely. But blaming philanthropists doesn't make any sense. We can reverse inequality by raising taxes back to where they were in the 1960's and 70's, invest in rebuilding our infrastructure (which will create tens of thousands of jobs). and recognize that educating our children is one of the most important things a country can do.

  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-25 06:08:12 PM
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    jaredsxtn said: "it sounds preposterous to me because someone who gives away 99% of their income shouldn't then be expected to be taxed on the donation"

    jaredsxtn, We are talking about people giving away billions of dollars. In view of their generosity I see no problem with them not taking a deduction and giving some extra back to their country. An amount that would be a very small fraction of the money they are giving away.

  • Chet Ruminski
    2016-03-25 06:36:48 PM
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    Quick look at Zuckerberg's 100 million to Newark New Jersey's public school system shows a lot of money spent and squandered and Little improvement.
  • Dutch
    2016-03-26 09:01:10 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    What does any of that have to do with Bill Gates opening up a philanthropic charity?

    Trust me--I want to dramatically overhaul our criminal justice system, take God out of politics, and slash military spending, but none of that has to do with rich people feeding starving people throughout the world.

    Inequality is rising because the world is growing smaller and smaller and people who don't have a post secondary education no longer have the ability to compete for many jobs in America. People who didn't graduate high school used to be able to get a job at a manufacturing plant, but those days are long gone. And whatever manufacturing jobs that are left aren't anything like what they used to be.

    Do I want to figure out a way to reverse the rampant inequality in America? Absolutely. But blaming philanthropists doesn't make any sense. We can reverse inequality by raising taxes back to where they were in the 1960's and 70's, invest in rebuilding our infrastructure (which will create tens of thousands of jobs). and recognize that educating our children is one of the most important things a country can do.

    Jared, if they do give money away, then that should be at "home" then it should be tax deductible. Like "cancer research" or something for the poor or homeless veterans, orphans etc. There is plenty to do here before running to Africa. Like I said before, Gates has no clue about Africa; any project there will only create the same as here some benefit but the majority still lives in hut's and has no food. You either do something there which affects/benefits everyone, not just peacemeal like missionary's do. Africa is much larger than our "island" here; people forget that.
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