Forum Thread

The national interest.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    I think the "National Interest" is being compromised and relegated to a personal use format. The Country which is a sovereign entity is being denied respect and support by people that have no appreciation for all that a Country represents. Independent people have no use for the security a country provides. Wealthy indepent people have no use for the social function that a country provides. The hoarding and facilitation for hoarding money does not serve the national interest and threatens the purpose and security a country provides. Hoarding of money is particularly anti social. It deprives citizens of the benefit of a country. As I have said before, any great wealth is accumulated by the lack of a system to provide fair and equitable compensation for services performed. Consider how the stock market has evolved from an institution to provide financing for businesses into an institution that creates profit without providing a service. The country needs to be looked at for what it is supposed to do. It should not be manipulated into a system that facilitates hoarding and removing money from the economy. Manipulating a country for self service creates discontent and turmoil. Bernie Sanders is the only patriotic candidate and he is trying to focus a country to what it is supposed to do. Exceptionalism is an after thought. Some have used it for good and some have used it for destruction. Humility needs to be forced into the people that hold themselves above the national interest.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    The bailout, it's execution and the results of the bailout are proof that the national interest is secondary to personal interests.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Chet -- I don't understand what point you are making when you talk about "hoarding". Personal Savings is running at about 5.2 percent, somewhat lower than the historical average. That equates to about $740 billion in savings at yearend 2015. Are you suggesting that Americans save less? Certainly spending has a stimulative effect on the economy, but on the other hand, without personal savings, Social Security will become the de facto savings of choice, an undesirable "substitute" for real retirement income from personal savings.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Schmidt, One specific is the amount of money tied up in the derivative market. Another is the amount of money from the tax cuts used for savings and creating "perpetual trusts". Savings can be beneficial if it is in high velocity investments. It isnt. Savings tend to serve returns and the way the financial system has been manipulated money tends to go to second and third degree removed investments. Back to derivatives. Wall Street has manipulated the market into an income without value creator. The same money lost to tax cuts if left in the government would have been turned into jobs producing programs. Turned into high velocity money because it would end up in the hands of people that would spend it on material products. Creating an economy of trade. Remember that there is no such thing as savings, the "savings" is your money given to somebody else to spend. The tax cuts coupled with deregulation has created a surplus of money analogous to hoarding. The country is suffering at the hands of people that have determined their personal interest superior to the "National Interest". There is no person so important that the loss of can't be survived. Nobody can survive the loss of the country. Some people are making so much money they have to give it away, and give it away to anybody or anything except the country that let them make it.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Here is the solution to all of our problems!

    facebook.com/entrehubber/videos/1008809...

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote:

    Here is the solution to all of our problems!

    facebook.com/entrehubber/videos/1008809...

    Yes P.R. Everything is better than Trump and his cronies; but yeah the Britisch empire has crumbled as well and keeps crumbling if it leaves the EU. I think as Bernie, that only Denmark can save us, by giving free education ( it shows that people joining Trump/Cruz etc. have none) as well healthcare for everyone (without the complicated US invented system) why invent the wheel again if you can copy it.

  • Center Left
    Independent
    South Central, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: Chet -- I don't understand what point you are making when you talk about "hoarding". Personal Savings is running at about 5.2 percent, somewhat lower than the historical average.

    My head feels like it's going to pop. Since about 90% of the income has gone to the 1%.

    Don't you think it'd be more realistic to look at the "personal savings" of the bottom 90%.

    If I have a dollar in savings and you have a Billion in savings, it is true, we average $500M a piece. But what does that prove? Most of us understand simple math, but our understanding of math is far different that yours I'm guessing.

    PS: I'm happy your savings is going up, really.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Gimpy Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote: Chet -- I don't understand what point you are making when you talk about "hoarding". Personal Savings is running at about 5.2 percent, somewhat lower than the historical average.

    My head feels like it's going to pop. Since about 90% of the income has gone to the 1%.

    Don't you think it'd be more realistic to look at the "personal savings" of the bottom 90%.

    If I have a dollar in savings and you have a Billion in savings, it is true, we average $500M a piece. But what does that prove? Most of us understand simple math, but our understanding of math is far different that yours I'm guessing.

    PS: I'm happy your savings is going up, really.

    Gimpy -- I don't understand what point you are making. The Personal Savings, along with Personal Disposable Income and Personal Consumption are monthly figures put out by the Bureau of Economic Statistics to help economists gauge how healthy the economy is. I don't try to read much into the figures because I am not an economist, although I like to browse trends and read what they have to say about it. The only point I was making is that the number is somewhat low by historical standards, although it has been much lower at times. That could be due to many factors, but what it does suggest to me is that the economy is not in the tank as many politicians seem to want you to believe; however, there could be problems in the future as people want to retire without adequate savings. Some will elect to retire at age 70 or later instead of 66, assuming they are still healthy and their employer allows them to keep working at that age.

    To my knowledge, the Bureau doesn't break out the number according to income percentage. I'm not sure they even gather the data to make a correlation of the brackets of incomes of specific individuals with their specific savings rate. In any case, it is intuitive that once you reach a certain threshold of income, the more money you make, the more you save. The poorest people do not save because they don't have the money to save.

    On the other hand, I know many middle income people that have not saved much, mainly because they live for the present and don't plan for the future. It does require self discipline.

    The alternative is to increase Social Security benefits to retirees across the board and then apply tax penalties to the higher income people. Oh but they do that already for people with high adjusted incomes. The more you make, the more you give back as a percentage of your total income.

    For your information, I am retired and my individual savings rate as measured by the BES is essentially near zero, as I only draw income that I need for my life style.