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Robots to eliminate 5.1 million jobs by 2020

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  • Liberal Democrat
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    Colorado Springs, CO
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    MSN: The robot revolution could wipe out 5.1 million jobs by 2020

    "Over the next five years, automation and robots will cause 5.1 million job losses, according to a new report from the World Economic Forum. Sectors include office and administrative, manufacturing and production, construction and extraction, installation and maintenance and the arts and entertainment."

    From the full report: "65% of children entering primary school today will ultimately end up working in completely new job types that don’t yet exist."

    The full report can be read at the second link above. Technology change and its impact on jobs is one of the biggest factors affecting jobs...now and in the future. We cannot continue to "blame China" for all of our job losses or our under employment. Job retraining and continuous education should be in the plans for most corporations and workers, as well as government. It's the new reality to compete in the 21st Century.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    MSN: The robot revolution could wipe out 5.1 million jobs by 2020

    "Over the next five years, automation and robots will cause 5.1 million job losses, according to a new report from the World Economic Forum. Sectors include office and administrative, manufacturing and production, construction and extraction, installation and maintenance and the arts and entertainment."

    From the full report: "65% of children entering primary school today will ultimately end up working in completely new job types that don’t yet exist."

    The full report can be read at the second link above. Technology change and its impact on jobs is one of the biggest factors affecting jobs...now and in the future. We cannot continue to "blame China" for all of our job losses or our under employment. Job retraining and continuous education should be in the plans for most corporations and workers, as well as government. It's the new reality to compete in the 21st Century.

    Schmidt, don't worry; we need more politicians, artists, more party organizers, more snow shovelers, campaign slogan designers, inspectors for gun control, and of course more veterans who can help old ladies cross the street, as well according to Trump if we deport all Mexicans which then will open up plenty of jobs.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    Schmidt, The argument for robots was that it freed up people for other jobs due to the affluence created by robots making more products cheaper. The fallacy was believing that profits generated by robots would be put back into the economy. The reality is the fraud of robot defense. Prices for products were based on the costs of goods consisting of labor and all the costs of labor. Pensions, absenteeism, insurance, disability compensation and et al. When robots started to replace humans were the costs savings reflected in lower prices? Did cheaper robot labor see profits invested in R&D and capital improvements and expansion. The general answer was profits were used as always and windfall profits were treated status quo, Consequently robots contributed in the same way any cost savings contributed. The difference was that robot savings were massive but totally ingnored any humanitarian responsibility. The most significant robotic contribution was in widening the income gap. Progress is cheaper, faster and easier. There is no social side to progress.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    We will definitely need to figure out a way to adapt to the rise of artificial intelligence and machines performing the jobs that humans have become so accustomed to doing, but I'm not a "doom and gloom" type of person. History shows us that humans have always learned to adapt to new technologies and my hope is that it won't be any different this time.

    Books used to be penned by hand until the printing press was invented. Farms used to be tilled by manual labor until tractors took over that laborious task. And horses used to ride hundreds of miles to deliver a letter before cars, airplanes, and e-mail were invented.

    My point is that humans have always adapted to new technologies and I hope this time is no different.

  • Independent
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    New types of jobs? Now there is pie in the sky. I have yet to see any creative destruction from the last 50 years that has not been labor destruction.

    I just started reading "Adam's Fallacy" by Duncan Foley. The premise that Smith based his entire thesis upon is not only unprovable it has been disproved. That premise is that some how the economy and economic decisions made are not inter-connected with the political process, psychology, sociology, society in general and that the so-called invisible hand moves decisions based upon self-interest toward a collective societal good. Automation as well as outsourcing, insourcing (at reduced wages) has not and never will lead to societal good. The entire premise of capitalism as well as private property is a fallacy. Of course so is socialism and communism as well as fascism since all do not take into account human beings and their drivers.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    You can analogiize money to a hostile country. Like any hostile country scenario the brain trust deals with conquering with no look towards the aftermath. The country and money are conquered and taken by the people best suited. The country is conquered and then there is turmoil. The people successful in taking the country and the money are not equipped and it is not in their nature to deal with success. Since they are victorious the money is theirs and they do with whatever they want. This calls for a bureaucracy. A bureaucracy will carry out their duties the same way the victorious conquered the country earned the money. The bureaucracy needs to be charged with managing resources. Be it people, money, raw materials, land or whatever. The control of money cannot be left with the people that captured it. Those people look at any use of money as counter productive to their nature of collecting money. Money is a resource like any other and it must be managed to serve the purpose it was created for. An exchange system to facilitate the movement of goods and services. Money must be constantly and rapidly moved. When money is hoarded an economy slows down. Continued gathering and controlling money by people who in their very nature are disposed to gathering money will end up stagnating and killing an economy. Money must be spent to have any value or use. Spending must equal income or else there is stagnation. Over spending or spending more than income is another tool that the natural gathers use to earn more money easier and faster. That is another job of the bureaucracy. Income must come from providing a good or service . The war on the economy and money is presented by critics of government calling for reduced smaller government. Those people have no use for an economy. Money must be regulated and used exactly like a resource. Recognizing that this resource loses its value if it is not continually used.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    lonely bird Wrote: New types of jobs? Now there is pie in the sky. I have yet to see any creative destruction from the last 50 years that has not been labor destruction.

    American companies have created hundreds of thousands of jobs in the renewable energy sector. These are "new types of jobs" because they were unheard of a few decades ago. Now it's one of the fastest growing industries in the job market.

    Robots can't climb on top of someones roof and install solar panels; nor can they install windmill farms and ensure the electricity produced by them goes where it is supposed to. And I don't see robots ever teaching our children or taking care of us when we are sick.

    New technologies have always scared the generation that is around when they come about, but later generations have always been able to adapt. I don't think this current revolution in robotic technology is any different...that is unless we shoot ourselves in the foot and give up.

  • Independent
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote: New types of jobs? Now there is pie in the sky. I have yet to see any creative destruction from the last 50 years that has not been labor destruction.

    American companies have created hundreds of thousands of jobs in the renewable energy sector. These are "new types of jobs" because they were unheard of a few decades ago. Now it's one of the fastest growing industries in the job market.

    Robots can't climb on top of someones roof and install solar panels; nor can they install windmill farms and ensure the electricity produced by them goes where it is supposed to. And I don't see robots ever teaching our children or taking care of us when we are sick.

    New technologies have always scared the generation that is around when they come about, but later generations have always been able to adapt. I don't think this current revolution in robotic technology is any different...that is unless we shoot ourselves in the foot and give up.

    The existing grid, as poor shape as it is, will still transmit electricity.

    no, renewable energy will not take the place in providing the sheer number of jobs that steel, cars and appliances did during the mid-20th century. Just as a small example USX Gary, Indiana employed 35,000+ people at its high point. When I was involved in providing acid resistant mortar for the north and south pickling lines there around 2006 or so they were employing about 6000 iirc. The mini-mills decimated the steel industry as did dumping by foreign competition. The tangentially related jobs that fed the auto industry and other industries have suffered as well. And when we add in the capitalists pushing the so-called service (read: low wage) economy we see labor destruction is not just a result but a driver of the "new economy".

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    lonely bird Wrote: no, renewable energy will not take the place in providing the sheer number of jobs that steel, cars and appliances did during the mid-20th century.

    This is a very short sighted belief. I tend to think in the long term, even if it means thinking about the future of human civilization past my time here on earth. Renewable energy is in its very, and I stress VERY, early stages. This is the technology of the future and billions of humans are going to become reliant on it to power their homes, cars, and office buildings. The oil and coal industries are going to fight tooth and nail to prevent it from happening, but those are finite resources and renewable energy is infinite....that is until the sun has a supernova and annihilates earth.

    lonely bird Wrote: Just as a small example USX Gary, Indiana employed 35,000+ people at its high point. When I was involved in providing acid resistant mortar for the north and south pickling lines there around 2006 or so they were employing about 6000 iirc. The mini-mills decimated the steel industry as did dumping by foreign competition. The tangentially related jobs that fed the auto industry and other industries have suffered as well. And when we add in the capitalists pushing the so-called service (read: low wage) economy we see labor destruction is not just a result but a driver of the "new economy".

    We have to accept that the economy is changing and we can either adapt to that change or not. Artificial intelligence is only going to get more and more advanced as we move into the future. One machine is going to be able to do things that took hundreds of humans to do. That's just a fact.

    What's up for debate is how humans will adjust to this new normal. Will we be like the people who threw their hands up in the air and gave up when the wheel was invented or will we be like the people who took that wheel and realized there's a whole new world at their fingertips?

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Forget about jobs, any jobs. Jobs were never an objective. Profit is the only objective.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Case against Commodities Futures Modification Act and repealing Glas-Steagall allowing futures/derivative to dominate and destroy the economy.

    Attachments: Text version of this message. (2KB)

    People don't want jobs but they are forced to say they want jobs. People want to do what they like to do and at the same time have enough money so they are not put in the situation of not having enough money to take care of their needs. Nobody wants to provide jobs. Jobs are only provided to produce a profit. There is no entrepreneur that dreams about jobs as an objective satisfaction. They dream about jobs producing products that they can sell for a profit. The only dreaming about jobs that an entrepreneur has is dreaming about ways to eliminate labor from making a profit. Jobs are a temporary necessary archaic evil. Eliminating jobs in making a profit produces a surplus of labor that is deprived of the money they need to take care of their needs. An economy is counter productive to producing a profit. An economy is a social function that does not plateau out of necessity to maintain a society. An economy contradicts a profit because an economy depends on money for operations, money that could increase profit. An economy as well as jobs stands in the way of progress (faster, easier and cheaper). An economy uses labor to produce goods and services to be traded for other goods and services. The inefficiency of labor and an economy have always stood in the way of profit and as such have been scrutinized for reduction and elimination. When labor and economy are reduced or eliminated profit then becomes a one direction fee. A one direction fee collects surpluses. Collecting surpluses becomes a finite end because without an economy surpluses are non renewable. The collection is a bubble because it keeps expanding. The bubble progresses until there are no surpluses to collect fees from. Then the ultimate profit is achieved because it is all the money. All the money collected means no activity. No activity is stagnation and collapse of society. The system now has reached the stage of predominantly collecting fees. Stagnation is growing and their is no logical reason to change because the goal of profit without investment is appearing and appealing. The pure realization of unencumbered profit is materializing along with the realization that society is collapsing. The realization of a total societal collapse may demand the return of an economy. Money has to be put back into the economy. By Chet Ruminski

    From Chet Ruminski to Chet Ruminski:Forget about jobs, any jobs. Jobs were never an objective. Profit is the only objective.

    Subject:

    Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:10 pm

    Cc: Chetruminski@gmail.com

    To: Chet@callchet.com

    Derivatives are stagnating money that could be used for jobs. Profit through gambling is eliminating profit through labor/jobs. Gambling produces profits faster, easier and cheaper. Gambling is not self sustaining.

    This post has been modified and edited since originally posted.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    MSN: The robot revolution could wipe out 5.1 million jobs by 2020

    "Over the next five years, automation and robots will cause 5.1 million job losses, according to a new report from the World Economic Forum. Sectors include office and administrative, manufacturing and production, construction and extraction, installation and maintenance and the arts and entertainment."

    From the full report: "65% of children entering primary school today will ultimately end up working in completely new job types that don’t yet exist."

    The full report can be read at the second link above. Technology change and its impact on jobs is one of the biggest factors affecting jobs...now and in the future. We cannot continue to "blame China" for all of our job losses or our under employment. Job retraining and continuous education should be in the plans for most corporations and workers, as well as government. It's the new reality to compete in the 21st Century.

    Robots fit into the economic definition of progress: faster, easier and cheaper. Is their social responsibility for the results of progress which is unemployment. Logically there is no social obligation with progress. Expending workers is a function of progress. Unemployment is a desired function of economic progress (faster, easier and cheaper). Feigning social concern for labor is simply mitigating progress. Social responsibility has to be a government function. Expendable labor can't be rationalized by progress. Perpetuating jobs being created by a system focused on eliminating jobs is a false fallacy, a lie. Defenders of progress deny the highest numbers of unemployed, under employed, impoverished and poverty since the early 1900's. Current policies do not support jobs creation because their is no capital available for the economy. A stimulus is a public relations event warding off social demands because there is nothing to stimulate that can evolve into a self sustaining event. The idea of progress creating leisure time was a vindication of expendable labor. There was no mechanism to create leisure time because that contradicted and was excluded by growing profits. Profits clear the balance sheet of money needed to support a social concern for displaced and reduced labor. The reality of robots was recognized by the UAW inevitably bargaining jobs for improved conditions for residual workers. The Unions saw their demise through robots and avoided earlier and quicker dissolution by avoiding confronting robot implementation. The Unions had no illusion of prosperity through robots evidenced by their acceptance of jobs elimination in exchange for residuals benefits. Prosperity is still attainable by a realization of personal sovereignty. Personal rights require profits to be invested into jobs producing entrepreneurial activities. Unless specifically mandated profits will be specialized into simple earnings generating tools.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: Forget about jobs, any jobs. Jobs were never an objective. Profit is the only objective.

    Do you honestly believe this?

    If profit is the only objective then what would you call a teacher who works in inner-city public schools? Or a firefighter who puts their life on the line to save people from a burning fire? What about a neurosurgeon? Would you worry about their profit motives before they put you under and open your brain up?

    We will never again make cars on an assembly line filled with human beings being in charge of one task and one task only. Just as we never again hired monks to transcribe books by hand after the printing press was invented in 1440. Technology is always changing. You either adapt to it or get left behind.

    Many industries are profit driven and people who enter those industries need to understand that before they sign on the dotted line. Trades will always be needed, no matter how advanced our technology gets. No robot, at least in this day and age, will answer your call when your sewage is backed up. And no robot can install or fix the electricity in your house or apartment.

    Humans have always been able to adjust to changing technologies. It's scared some people and it's excited others, but the thing about technology is that it will continue to advance no matter what.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    You didn't address the issue. Profits is only a concern of the employer. The teacher, firefighter and neurosurgeon have nothing to do with profit. They are laborers. They also fit my prior explanation that people want to do what they like to do and would like to have money to take care of their needs. I waited four hours for a response and you caught the ball and ran the wrong way. Profit is the domain of the owner, not the laborer. As I said jobs were never on the mind of entrepreneurs as an objective. The only concern about jobs that owners have is how to reduce the burden.

    Also "Humans have always been able to adjust to changing technologies." Is totally false. You are implying a zero sum job market where a displaced worker finds another job. That is of course adjusting to technology. Unemployed watching their hopes and dreams and savings and life style disappear is not adjusting, that is suffering the consequences. Adjusting to changing technology would be lateral movements in the job market with no net loss or gain of jobs. The system is not fair because it considers a net loss of jobs with positive profits to be a successful materialization.

  • Liberal Democrat
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    Colorado Springs, CO
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    MSN News: The world's first robot farm will harvest 30,000 heads of lettuce daily

    "The Japanese lettuce production company Spread believes the farmers of the future will be robots.

    So much so that Spread is creating the world's first farm manned entirely by robots. Instead of relying on human farmers, the indoor Vegetable Factory will employ robots that can grow and tend to 30,000 heads of lettuce every day.

    Don't expect a bunch of humanoid robots to roam the indoor farm, however; the robots look more like conveyor belts with arms. They'll plant seeds, water plants, and trim lettuce heads after harvest at the Kyoto, Japan factory.

    It could be a model for the future of farming."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We see these kinds of "better mousetraps" all the time in the news. It happens wherever assembly line type of work can be found. So yes a machine like this eliminates one kind of labor. It's happened to the auto industry, banking, sales of consumer products (Amazon), fishing (factory ships), etc. However, as some jobs are lost, others are created. Trained technicians are needed to maintain the robots, but overall fewer workers are required.

    The inventers are not "bad people" because they do not consider the implications on jobs. Prosperous corporations and government, however, do have a responsibility to help retrain employees for the new jobs of the future. And workers need to understand that no job is forever. Many unemployed people following the Great Recession become entrepreneurs and started their own businesses with a bit of financial help.

    Looking at "help wanted" pages in the newspapers, there are lots of good paying jobs, but most people do not have the skills or the mobility to fill them. However, it is also a mental state that impacts older workers more than younger ones. There needs to be government programs to help these people get a new start. Long term unemployment can cause anger, severe depression, or other mental issues. It's not healthy for our society.