Forum Thread

Let's quit calling them "debates"

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    I watched part of the Fox Business Channel Republican "debate" last night and then turned the station as I couldn't stand the "debaters" and the umpteenth rerun of their stump speeches nicely set up by the Fox Business moderators who had their own anti-Obama, anti-Clinton agenda. These are not real honest debates in the format one might expect in a college debate. These are anything goes spectacles of Obama and Hillary bashing with little regard for facts. They spar amongst themselves in self serving ways seemingly always to duck the substance of any issue, not that the moderators cared. Did anyone learn anything of substance in this "debate" on the issues that we didn't already know? The primary purpose of these spectacles is to give Republicans a pulpit to grandstand in front of a blood thirsty audience of fascist leaning ignorant bigots. Lets drop the term "debate". There was very little of that on the issues that mattered.
  • Center Left Democrat
    Democrat
    Flagstaff, AZ
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    Schmidt:

    If nothing else, the latest "debate" should prove to the voting public that NONE of the current Republican candidates are fit for office.

    Today's New York Times contained an article written by a "recovering Republican" who proves that ALL of them are crazy when it comes to the economy:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/opinion/campaign-stops/the-republican-deficit-hypocrisy.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

    In addition, yesterday's Opinion page had a column written by a "die hard" Republican who explains why he would NEVER vote for Donald Trump, but would actually consider voting for a third party candidate instead of a Republican:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/opinion/campaign-stops/why-i-will-never-vote-for-donald-trump.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Thanks Arizona --

    I like this statement from Peter Wehner in the second article:

    "The nominee, after all, is the leader of the party; he gives it shape and definition. If Mr. Trump heads the Republican Party, it will no longer be a conservative party; it will be an angry, bigoted, populist one. Mr. Trump would represent a dramatic break with and a fundamental assault on the party’s best traditions."

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    I have had a problem from the very start in calling these open discussions a debate. I didn't watch the debate but I did watch Fox News around 3 AM. They are definitely anti Trump. Listening to what they said I had the impression that Trump had a bad night and that Rubio was going to be the next President. Then at five I watched Joe and Mika. They presented a totally different picture and that was Trump was the best. Their information was supported by a variety of guests.
  • Independent
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Thanks Arizona --

    I like this statement from Peter Wehner in the second article:

    "The nominee, after all, is the leader of the party; he gives it shape and definition. If Mr. Trump heads the Republican Party, it will no longer be a conservative party; it will be an angry, bigoted, populist one. Mr. Trump would represent a dramatic break with and a fundamental assault on the party’s best traditions."

    The gentleman misses the point. It IS a Conservative party. It is a Conservative party that is the result of about 60 years of movement from a party that had some belief in government to a party that hates government and is out to prove a nation can be run as a company while ruining government. From the seeds of the jbs to Buckley to Goldwater to Reagan the movement has been to "take back" the country from those who are not white, Anglo-Saxon Protestants (with occasional conservative Catholics and Jews for "diversity") and present it as a sacrifice on the altar of profit uber alles. Money however is not the issue. It is the means of keeping score but irrelevant to the real issue which is social power. Conservatives have never forgiven the country for destroying slavery and building a middle class which the hoi polloi could actually aspire to. Read, hell just about anything, regarding the use of agitprop to mold poor whites into the fold against blacks and other minorities including the most shat upon, the natives. Zinn covers this most excellently in a people's history of the United States.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    I did not look but saw some snippits; these guys are not even fit for "kindergarten"; they have absolutely no clue at all about the world around us and on how it affects us. They show only one vision and that is pure US arrogance and total stupidity. Especially Trump and Cruz are champions in arrogance. Carson is lucky that all his 'help' is running away. The rest of the clan is already on another planet and fighting their own tails. Unbelievable how a country can sink this deep.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    lonely bird Wrote:
    The gentleman misses the point. It IS a Conservative party. It is a Conservative party that is the result of about 60 years of movement from a party that had some belief in government to a party that hates government and is out to prove a nation can be run as a company while ruining government. From the seeds of the jbs to Buckley to Goldwater to Reagan the movement has been to "take back" the country from those who are not white, Anglo-Saxon Protestants (with occasional conservative Catholics and Jews for "diversity") and present it as a sacrifice on the altar of profit uber alles. Money however is not the issue. It is the means of keeping score but irrelevant to the real issue which is social power. Conservatives have never forgiven the country for destroying slavery and building a middle class which the hoi polloi could actually aspire to. Read, hell just about anything, regarding the use of agitprop to mold poor whites into the fold against blacks and other minorities including the most shat upon, the natives. Zinn covers this most excellently in a people's history of the United States.

    This is true. Conservatism...or "Movement Conservatism" has been a part of our political landscape forever. Their brains are wired differently. Defining "conservatism" in the last 60 years has become more difficult as they have blended in religious, social and cultural issues that were not traditionally a part of conservatism, or for that matter, the Republican Party. Barry Goldwater quote:

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” -- Barry Goldwater as told to John Dean

    I suppose the Republican Party is experiencing a kind of "blowback" for their gerrymandering and pandering to the craziest segments of the American society...not only the "preachers" as Goldwater called them, but also the gun nuts, the bigots, and the white supremacists, while creating a culture of "hate of the other". The Republican Party establishment is now reaping what they sowed.

    The Republican debates, particularly the rhetoric of Trump, Cruz and Rubio along with big splash of Carson, reflect the genetic make-up of the new Republican Party...call it conservatism or whatever else might fit the tribe.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote:
    The gentleman misses the point. It IS a Conservative party. It is a Conservative party that is the result of about 60 years of movement from a party that had some belief in government to a party that hates government and is out to prove a nation can be run as a company while ruining government. From the seeds of the jbs to Buckley to Goldwater to Reagan the movement has been to "take back" the country from those who are not white, Anglo-Saxon Protestants (with occasional conservative Catholics and Jews for "diversity") and present it as a sacrifice on the altar of profit uber alles. Money however is not the issue. It is the means of keeping score but irrelevant to the real issue which is social power. Conservatives have never forgiven the country for destroying slavery and building a middle class which the hoi polloi could actually aspire to. Read, hell just about anything, regarding the use of agitprop to mold poor whites into the fold against blacks and other minorities including the most shat upon, the natives. Zinn covers this most excellently in a people's history of the United States.

    This is true. Conservatism...or "Movement Conservatism" has been a part of our political landscape forever. Their brains are wired differently. Defining "conservatism" in the last 60 years has become more difficult as they have blended in religious, social and cultural issues that were not traditionally a part of conservatism, or for that matter, the Republican Party. Barry Goldwater quote:

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” -- Barry Goldwater as told to John Dean

    I suppose the Republican Party is experiencing a kind of "blowback" for their gerrymandering and pandering to the craziest segments of the American society...not only the "preachers" as Goldwater called them, but also the gun nuts, the bigots, and the white supremacists, while creating a culture of "hate of the other". The Republican Party establishment is now reaping what they sowed.

    The Republican debates, particularly the rhetoric of Trump, Cruz and Rubio along with big splash of Carson, reflect the genetic make-up of the new Republican Party...call it conservatism or whatever else might fit the tribe.

    Right on, Schmidt, indeed as Goldwater described; throw in the "Jesus freaks" then you know the result. If an never seen or met "god" is then running this country; nobody can be held responsible for any disasters; it is all "god's" will. Finally an great excuse for everything what evangelical GOP "humans" screw up.