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Approaching dangerous economic conditions.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    From Wiki :"Underemployment is more prevalent during times of economic stagnation " I have been saying for some time that the stock market is overweighted in pure speculative trading. The result of that is money is tied up not available for job producing investments. The stock market is doing fine although it is shrinking. The next crash will not resolve itself easily because the crash will not be the result of under producing companies. The next crash will because there is not enough money to pay off speculative trading bets. So a period of austerity with wage concessions will be meaningless because there are not enough companies to produce goods to generate income. It will be the same as a casino where all the customers are broke. Nothing can be done to generate income.
  • Independent
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    strongly suggest reading steven hill's "raw deal: how the 'uber economy' and runaway capitalism are screwing american workers."
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    lonely bird Wrote: strongly suggest reading steven hill's "raw deal: how the 'uber economy' and runaway capitalism are screwing american workers."
    lonely bird, The Uber economy is a result of the shrinking real economy. People are doing whatever they can to maintain and survive. An increasing cost of living in underemployment is the current state of conditions resulting from deregulating banking and stockmarket and trading activities. A gradual deterioration of respect for individual and civil rights has led to the current state of specific dominance by limited interests in the financial market. Right to work laws and constant stressing of self determination along with a calculated distrust of government has turned the chicken coop over to the foxes. Not only is uber and other self generated activities a sign of the times so is crowd funding. Crowd funding is the reincarnation of the original stock market. This all contributes to the new American worker having to scratch for a living. And a lot of it is due to the Clinton Presidency. Clinton turned back the American workers clock to the depression era. There is no money for new companies and new jobs. The money is tied up in huge funds generating fees instead of in companies making products for sale.
  • Independent
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote: strongly suggest reading steven hill's "raw deal: how the 'uber economy' and runaway capitalism are screwing american workers."
    lonely bird, The Uber economy is a result of the shrinking real economy. People are doing whatever they can to maintain and survive. An increasing cost of living in underemployment is the current state of conditions resulting from deregulating banking and stockmarket and trading activities. A gradual deterioration of respect for individual and civil rights has led to the current state of specific dominance by limited interests in the financial market. Right to work laws and constant stressing of self determination along with a calculated distrust of government has turned the chicken coop over to the foxes. Not only is uber and other self generated activities a sign of the times so is crowd funding. Crowd funding is the reincarnation of the original stock market. This all contributes to the new American worker having to scratch for a living. And a lot of it is due to the Clinton Presidency. Clinton turned back the American workers clock to the depression era. There is no money for new companies and new jobs. The money is tied up in huge funds generating fees instead of in companies making products for sale.
    no argument. hill covers this very well in his book. i point at the clinton presidency as well but imo the clinton presidency was the continuation of the reagan/bush regime which was severely reactionary. the meme which continues to exist of government being "the problem" is dangerously short-sighted and simplistic. thus it appeals to many especially when couched with undefined terms like "freedom" and "liberty." participation in the political economic process is difficult. going on 40 years of race to the non-existent bottom opens up opportunity for ripping off the citizenry on a scale not seen since the previous gilded age.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    lonley bird, There are so many problems to overcome but the worst problem is the need for people to feel like they are in on the "know". Having little knowledge of current events and conditions people will cling to popular sound bites and messages and worst of all repeat them. The day after the Democratic debate I was in the shipyard where most of workers are young guys. The tone of the conversation there is always loud and boisterous. The bashing of Sanders was constant and derogatory. Every one there would benefit from all and any of Sander's programs. These guys are the result of the right wing radio talk stars constantly tearing down government and social programs. It is hard to convey the message that their futures are in the hands of people that have no concern.
  • Independent
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: lonley bird, There are so many problems to overcome but the worst problem is the need for people to feel like they are in on the "know". Having little knowledge of current events and conditions people will cling to popular sound bites and messages and worst of all repeat them. The day after the Democratic debate I was in the shipyard where most of workers are young guys. The tone of the conversation there is always loud and boisterous. The bashing of Sanders was constant and derogatory. Every one there would benefit from all and any of Sander's programs. These guys are the result of the right wing radio talk stars constantly tearing down government and social programs. It is hard to convey the message that their futures are in the hands of people that have no concern.

    May one assume that said shipyard was something like bath iron works, electric boat or Newport News? Interesting as the first two are part of general dynamics, a major defense contractor, and thus working off the government tit. The third was spun off from Northrop Grumman as Huntington Ingalls and is also an enormous defense contractor.

    It certainly is disappointing. However it is not surprising. Those poor saps will slowly find themselves out of work or their children/grandchildren will due to continued short-termism, the rampage of temp work and elimination of companies as quasi-governmental entities that at one time provided support for their workers in reaction to populism and the vision of creeping socialism as portrayed by agitprop. The days of the long nineteenth century and labor are over. They are gone for good. The age of acquiescence and labor destruction in the form of creative destruction is here to stay.

    i give capitalism 30-100 years before upheaval shifts the landscape here and around the world radically.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    Self determination constantly repeated by the right is self destructive. It makes heroes out of people that successfully hoard money. Capitalism unregulated will result in all the money being controlled by a few. That is the end of free life and the beginning of servitude. People will be forced to fight tooth and nail for the minimum of payment. Simple regulations to encourage money to work would change the future. The top .001 would still own everything except it would be factories instead of certificates . Simply modeling the economy from NASCAR would work.

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    well the US economy is on its all time low and for 2016 and beyond, all official U.S. economic forecasts call for stronger growth ahead. But, economic output is not the only variable on the rise. Inflation, debt levels, interest rates, and market valuations are also increasing. What does this mean for investors?????????????????????
    And the economic outlook for 2016 has cleared all the doubts regarding the flatten economy that has created a huge loophole in the system and if the situation continues to be the same unemployment will surely be on the cards.The Federal Reserve is more optimistic. Current forecasts call for unemployment to be in the range of 4.8% to a high of 5.1% by the end of 2017. Therefore, the headline unemployment number is expected to decrease slightly

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    gardenvulture, I missed your post earlier. Probably the biggest problem is the use of the word job. Employment should be defined by living. People don't want jobs, they want a living. Giving a person a job is meaningless from the middle class down. Donald Trump has a job and so does the greeter at Walmart. The term job is meaningless. Job should be replaced by living. Give a person a living would present a totally different understanding of the economy than give a person a job. There are millions of people with jobs that live in poverty. Basing an economy on a system that thrives on eliminating labor does not build a country. How many people with jobs can't send their kids to college? How many people with jobs can't afford the copays, deductibles and prescriptions that define their health care? How many people earning a living would be a true measure of employment.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    gardenvulture Wrote: well the US economy is on its all time low and for 2016 and beyond, all official U.S. economic forecasts call for stronger growth ahead.

    I don't really understand what this even means. Are you suggesting that the US economy is at an all time low or are you suggesting that economic forecasts are calling for stronger growth?

    gardenvulture Wrote: But, economic output is not the only variable on the rise. Inflation, debt levels, interest rates, and market valuations are also increasing. What does this mean for investors?????????????????????

    The interest rate has gone from 0.250% to 0.500%. The inflation rate is rising at a steady 1.1% throughout the past twelve months. And don't even get me started on the national debt.

    gardenvulture Wrote: And the economic outlook for 2016 has cleared all the doubts regarding the flatten economy that has created a huge loophole in the system and if the situation continues to be the same unemployment will surely be on the cards.The Federal Reserve is more optimistic. Current forecasts call for unemployment to be in the range of 4.8% to a high of 5.1% by the end of 2017. Therefore, the headline unemployment number is expected to decrease slightly

    The link you provided is from a for profit website, not a scholarly journal.

  • Democrat
    Hot Springs Village, AR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    lonely bird Wrote: strongly suggest reading steven hill's "raw deal: how the 'uber economy' and runaway capitalism are screwing american workers."

    I will do that. Since the oligarchs control the media, the ruling class who control the GOP only send out messages that they want the underclass to hear. Blue collar republicans will spout how welfare is stealing their tax dollars since that's the only thing they hear over and over, mostly from Fox News. They don't even know who Northrop Grummond is nor J P Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Pfizer, Bechtel, Haliburton, KBR, ADM, Exxon etal. These behemoths are the cause of the plight of the working class.

    Capitalism is the national religion in this country and it has evolved into a plutocracy where all the gains go to the top. This is what the Kochs and other uber rich along with the big international corporations don't allow to be publicized. So the blue collar republicans think little kids on food stamps are the problem. Total control of the main stream media by oligarchs is what promotes this misinformation. You would think the real truth would eventually come out and expose the real villains but so far that hasn't happened despite the Sanders campaign. A big problem is that a large plurality of democrats are corporate as well. There is a reason it takes millions of dollars to run for public office and the plutocrats provide that cash. If you don't think that buys politicians of every stripe, think again.

  • Democrat
    Hot Springs Village, AR
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    The laborer in the U.S. (and eventually everywhere) is treading water. The number drowning is bound to increase as a kind of technofeudalsim takes hold. The need for labor is decreasing at a rapid rate to the point that millions of potential customers for goods and services will not be able to afford either. The wealth cannot filter to the top at the current rate for long before chaos erupts. It will come to the point that the majority of citizens have nothing left to lose. The only possible way out of massive violence is radical government action. The prospects are scary.

    And thanks for the tip on Hill's book.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Pensacola, FL
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    After the election there will be a massive coalition maybe ready and ripe for an obvious innovation.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    Combad57 Wrote: The laborer in the U.S. (and eventually everywhere) is treading water. The number drowning is bound to increase as a kind of technofeudalsim takes hold.

    This just isn't true. Manufacturing jobs in America have risen every single year since the Great Recession. Nearly a million well paying jobs have been added since 2010. And "[f]or the last four years in a row, global CEOs have named the United States the best place to make and invest, and new capital investment is flowing in to a broad range of manufacturing technologies."

    Modern day manufacturing jobs are different than the manufacturing jobs of yesteryear. They tend to be more highly skilled and require more training, but companies are willing to pay for that training because they are finding it's cheaper than outsourcing.

    Combad57 Wrote: The need for labor is decreasing at a rapid rate to the point that millions of potential customers for goods and services will not be able to afford either.

    What does this even mean? The need for labor is not decreasing, hence why we have added nearly a million new manufacturing jobs in the past few years.

    We're always going to need plumbers, electricians, and countless other labor intensive jobs that require more than a fancy machine.

    Combad57 Wrote: The wealth cannot filter to the top at the current rate for long before chaos erupts. It will come to the point that the majority of citizens have nothing left to lose. The only possible way out of massive violence is radical government action. The prospects are scary.

    Income inequality is an issue, but it's not THE issue. We have the lowest unemployment rate in decades and it's going to continue to be that way for quite some time because more and more baby boomers are retiring and opening up more space in the labor market.

    It's true that the economy of yesterday is different than the economy of today and tomorrow, but I'm confident in my generations and future generations ability to adapt to a changing world. We grew up during the technological revolution and understand that things are different than they were when the vast majority of people went to work at a factory, worked their 9-5, and clocked out at the end of the day.


    Chaos isn't on the brink of erupting unless some foreign government figures out a way to conduct a true cyber war that attacks Wall Street, Main Street, and our Military computer systems simultaneously.

    Take a deep breath. Step away from the 24/7 "News" channels. And try to remind yourself that the world is living in the most peaceful time in all of recorded human history.

    That is a fact. I know so many people want to tell you otherwise. But the great thing about facts are that they are irrefutable.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
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    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: After the election there will be a massive coalition maybe ready and ripe for an obvious innovation.

    What does this even mean? An innovation of what?