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Manufacturing determines an economy.

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  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    When I was in college I had a remarkable professor who nailed every facet of economic growth. First I remember him saying that the strength of an economy was in the first line of production, manufacturing. Then he said the worst thing for an economy was to become a service economy. He explained the difference between generating an income and earning an income. He used Gillete for an example. He said that for Gillete to improve earnings they would either have to get people to shave more or to increase the cost of shaving. Shaving more would boost sales and increase production and jobs. Increase the cost of shaving would simply lead to increased profit with no or less growth. History proves his insight. Gillete is the star for increased profit . They couldn't get people to shave more so they reintroduced shaving with new more expensive razors and holders regularly for 50 years with no end insight, So what has happened in the U.S. is that we have changed from manufacturing to service. Back then 1 in 3 people were employed in farming and manufacturing. What has happened since then is we now have 1 in 8 people involved in manufacturing. The rest are involved in servicing debt. Instead of making products people now are customer service for the huge artificially created debt. Taxes on the rich and idle money need to soar. People need to go back to work making consumable goods. The government has to serve the people that make up this country not the few that rule it.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote: People need to go back to work making consumable goods. The government has to serve the people that make up this country not the few that rule it.

    I see little to zero chance of this ever happening again. I'm not saying that I don't wish we had more manufacturing jobs here in America, but it would be naive to think that we will ever get back to the day where one in three people are employed in a manufacturing job.

    And it's not like we have no manufacturing at all in this country. The most recent numbers, from 2013, show that 8.8 percent of the labor force is in manufacturing. That's equals roughly 12 million full time workers.

    We will never see clothing manufacturing make its way back in a large scale in America because Americans have an appetite for cheap things. Competition from emerging economies that don't have the same worker protections we have in America make it impossible for us to ever see a resurgence of certain manufacturing jobs here in America. At least in the short run.

    In the long run I can see manufacturing making more of a resurgence in America, but many things will have to change before that happens. Companies ship low wage jobs overseas because our "leaders" give them free reign to do so. If we changed the laws in a way that doesn't entice multinational corporations to move jobs overseas-- say by imposing a heavy tariff on goods made overseas that are shipped to America--then maybe these corporations will be more likely to rethink their business plan. But that will never change as long as we have the laws that we have on the books now.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    ,jaredsxtn, Our problem is more localized than cheap foreign labor. Our problem has been the stock market moving away from industry to make money by shedding labor in favor of speculating. The worst setback came from Clinton favoring pure gambling by allowing the Commodities Futures Moderninzation Act to be passed. That allowed the definition of futures to be widely expanded to include things like mortgages, then it allowed this newly expanded market to be traded totally unregulated and the killer provision that actually prohibited the Commodities Futures Trading Commission and the SEC and state legislatures from interfering with the derivative market. The end result was the crash of 2008 but more importantly and destructive it let the derivative market grow enormously. That removed money from businesses, new, growing and old. The amount of money taken out of the U.S. Economy is estimated to be as high as 600 trillion dollars. That is money that could gave should have been used in manufacturing and service industries. Instead it was used to securitize gambling so traders could make money doing absolutely nothing. They can make money if a stock loses or gains. Not only is this a USA problem it is worldwide. The international value of derivatives is estimated to be in multiple quadrillions of dollars. That is why poor people all over are fighting and hating. No money and nothing to live for people are easy recruits for radicals. Radicals that can point directly at the cause of misery. The first step and apparently only hope in fighting this problem is Bernie Sanders.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    ,jaredsxtn, Bernie Sanders could create manufacturing . Our problem is more localized than cheap foreign labor. Our problem has been the stock market moving away from industry to make money by shedding labor in favor of speculating. The worst setback came from Clinton favoring pure gambling by allowing the Commodities Futures Moderninzation Act to be passed. That allowed the definition of futures to be widely expanded to include things like mortgages, then it allowed this newly expanded market to be traded totally unregulated and the killer provision that actually prohibited the Commodities Futures Trading Commission SEC and state legislatures from acting on the market. What has continued to happen at a more accelerated rate is more money is being diverted from our economy into stagnate position of securitizing derivatives. Estimates of 60 to 600 trillion in the USA and multiple quadrillions worldwide have strangled all economies. Poverty is rampant worldwide making poor disillusioned people easy recruits for radicals. The USA is in turmoil with rising costs and falling or stagnat incomes. Kids are graduating from college with a debt the size of a new home. All because traders have found a legal way to make money without working by trading on derivatives. Derivativex need to be regulated , taxed and outlawed. Money needs to be put back to work financing businesses new, old and growing. Bernie Sanders is the answer.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Its all predicated on "purchasing". Wal Mart is not allowed in the city of Los Angeles, but they do have them in the county. The city of Rosemead (county) is a 15 minute drive from downtown LA. Recently when the Wal Mart employess had their little protest. Wal Mart claimed that the building was unsafe because of a plumbing problem and immediately closed the entire Super Center for repair.....letting go of all their employees.......because the "REPAIRS" took six months. and nobody who lives here could last six months witout a job.

    Do you think for one moment that the surrounding communities supported the workers by not shopping there????? Hell no! .....Nobody gives a shit.

    The labor movement is dead in this country. Workers in my generation never had to fight for unions as my grand parents did. Workers walked into these jobs already unionized and never appreciated what past generations did for them.

    Again......all americans want is "You Tube and" chicks with dicks".....We want to be entertained.....men want moisturizer and skiny jeans......Nobody gives a shit which would Bernie Sanders as president completely inneffective.

    I thought our citizenry would wake up by now....I was wrong....a lot more economic suffering is just around the corner,

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    , jaredsxtn wrote: because Americans have an appetite for cheap things.

    jaredsxtn , does that mean you have given up on Americans ever making good money. Affluence will raise the demand for quality. I can see manufacturing jobs as well as other high paying returning to the USA if rule is returned to banking and stocks.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    , jaredsxtn wrote: because Americans have an appetite for cheap things.

    jaredsxtn , does that mean you have given up on Americans ever making good money. Affluence will raise the demand for quality. I can see manufacturing jobs as well as other high paying returning to the USA if rule is returned to banking and stocks.

    Chet yes you are correct, however due to the fact that the one's who make the rules are the same one's who break the rules because they are part of the scheme.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:

    Its all predicated on "purchasing". Wal Mart is not allowed in the city of Los Angeles, but they do have them in the county. The city of Rosemead (county) is a 15 minute drive from downtown LA. Recently when the Wal Mart employess had their little protest. Wal Mart claimed that the building was unsafe because of a plumbing problem and immediately closed the entire Super Center for repair.....letting go of all their employees.......because the "REPAIRS" took six months. and nobody who lives here could last six months witout a job.

    Do you think for one moment that the surrounding communities supported the workers by not shopping there????? Hell no! .....Nobody gives a shit.

    The labor movement is dead in this country. Workers in my generation never had to fight for unions as my grand parents did. Workers walked into these jobs already unionized and never appreciated what past generations did for them.

    Again......all americans want is "You Tube and" chicks with dicks".....We want to be entertained.....men want moisturizer and skiny jeans......Nobody gives a shit which would Bernie Sanders as president completely inneffective.

    I thought our citizenry would wake up by now....I was wrong....a lot more economic suffering is just around the corner,

    L.A. Citizen,

    You are right about a lot more economic suffering just around the corner. Making Bernie Sanders president might have some effect but any change will have to come as you noted from the citizenry waking up. If the citizenry can see through the propaganda that is probably getting ready to be launched by the Super Right. I expect a barrage equating Sanders to communism. If the citizenry can see through the lies and realize that change can come easy and legally through the U.S. system then there can be hope. Positively I am surprised at them letting Sanders get this far. Hopefully support will keep growing for him and he can succeed.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dutch Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    , jaredsxtn wrote: because Americans have an appetite for cheap things.

    jaredsxtn , does that mean you have given up on Americans ever making good money. Affluence will raise the demand for quality. I can see manufacturing jobs as well as other high paying returning to the USA if rule is returned to banking and stocks.

    Chet yes you are correct, however due to the fact that the one's who make the rules are the same one's who break the rules because they are part of the scheme.
    Dutch, If and only if Sanders can get elected can there be any change. Hillary comes from the group that created the current mess. Biden is a compromise politician and I can't see him deserting Obamas Wall Street connection. He and Hillary both supported a disastrous for the poor credit card company law. Instead of making credit qualifying reforms they elected to side with letting credit card companies keep throwing reckless credit with new laws to force people to pay debt. Bernie has identified Wall Street as the problem and has said he will launch a revolution against the powers of the mess. He has succeeded beyond my amazement so far.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    , jaredsxtn wrote: because Americans have an appetite for cheap things.

    jaredsxtn , does that mean you have given up on Americans ever making good money. Affluence will raise the demand for quality. I can see manufacturing jobs as well as other high paying returning to the USA if rule is returned to banking and stocks.

    Chet yes you are correct, however due to the fact that the one's who make the rules are the same one's who break the rules because they are part of the scheme.
    Dutch, If and only if Sanders can get elected can there be any change. Hillary comes from the group that created the current mess. Biden is a compromise politician and I can't see him deserting Obamas Wall Street connection. He and Hillary both supported a disastrous for the poor credit card company law. Instead of making credit qualifying reforms they elected to side with letting credit card companies keep throwing reckless credit with new laws to force people to pay debt. Bernie has identified Wall Street as the problem and has said he will launch a revolution against the powers of the mess. He has succeeded beyond my amazement so far.
    Chet I agree 100%; I like Bernie, but knowing this country, certain fanatics like the 1% and GOP evangelicals will do everything to stop him. Common sense is not allowed in this country.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Dutch Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:

    , jaredsxtn wrote: because Americans have an appetite for cheap things.

    jaredsxtn , does that mean you have given up on Americans ever making good money. Affluence will raise the demand for quality. I can see manufacturing jobs as well as other high paying returning to the USA if rule is returned to banking and stocks.

    Chet yes you are correct, however due to the fact that the one's who make the rules are the same one's who break the rules because they are part of the scheme.
    Dutch, If and only if Sanders can get elected can there be any change. Hillary comes from the group that created the current mess. Biden is a compromise politician and I can't see him deserting Obamas Wall Street connection. He and Hillary both supported a disastrous for the poor credit card company law. Instead of making credit qualifying reforms they elected to side with letting credit card companies keep throwing reckless credit with new laws to force people to pay debt. Bernie has identified Wall Street as the problem and has said he will launch a revolution against the powers of the mess. He has succeeded beyond my amazement so far.
    Chet I agree 100%; I like Bernie, but knowing this country, certain fanatics like the 1% and GOP evangelicals will do everything to stop him. Common sense is not allowed in this country.
    There is one anomaly that I am surprised the GOP let happen. Their main attack battle cry against social legislation used to be "better dead than red". I would like to see them try that now with Republican states being designated red. "Better dead than red " could actually be a liberal slogan.
  • Independent
    Florida
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    I fear that Bernie has no chance at being nominated, even less chance of being elected if so nominated.

    Let us suppose that Sanders could be elected. If that happened then would not the lunatic fringe oppose every damned thing that he favors, no matter how beneficial it might be to our national accommodation? Seems to me that he would be reviled and hopelessly thwarted by the Tea partiers, and the other right wing dimwits much the same as the continuous rift between Obama and the house. Well at least Bernie is not a "Kenyan, Muslim, Communist Conspiritor" like our present POTUS as has been proposed by the great unwashed. He is a direct descendant of Atilla the Hun, you know.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Happyclam -- Welcome to the Democratic Hub. You make an excellent point about Bernie Sanders, that if he is elected, his many "promises" would be thwarted by the Tea Partiers. This is exactly what happened to President Obama. I wrote about it in my blog post:

    Democratic Hub: The Strategy behind the “Party of No” to obstruct job growth

    I reference this article in Time:

    Time Magazine, August 23, 2012: The Party of No: New Details on the GOP Plot to Obstruct Obama

    The bottom line is that the Republicans were counting on Americans to pay little attention to what was going on in the halls of Congress, and when job growth was slowed because of the obstructionism, they blamed Obama for everything. Fox News led the charge.

    They will do the same thing to a "President Bernie Sanders" or a "President Hillary Clinton"...or a "President Joe Biden". They don't give a shit about America...only that they are in power and that their rich oligarch benefactors continue to reap the benefits from their largess in campaign contributions.

    Of course, President Obama has been able to succeed in many areas despite their sabotage, but his presidency could have been so much more successful in terms of jobs growth if it wasn't for the saboteurs.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
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    Ha have to give Obama for staying in in 2008. I think when all the conditions were collapsing a majority of people would have withdraw. There wee a lot of intellectuals in Obama's entourage in 2008. They surly must have weighed the consequences of being the President of an economic crash.