Forum Thread

How much does the sun contribute to global warming.

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 10 Posts
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Every hour, the sun radiates more energy onto the earth than the entire human population uses in one whole year. Source: americanenergyindependence.com/solarene...

    i have no doubt that global warming is affected anthropologically. I wish that remedies like they should also be in politics would not take on such adversierial tones. It is just like collective bargaining where each side exaggerates its position so that a compromise might be acceptable. Global warming is a combination of variables. It should be an industry rather than a movement. 12 years ago I painted my roof white and realized a year round savings of $1200. There was a story in the local paper where I told about the energy savings and also about how I had the only roof in the area that did not suffer damage from hurricane. That savings would have been millions for roof replacements along with less resources being used. In spite of the paper story and multiple writings in the internet nobody concerned about anthropological warming acted on it. Some issues appear to only have value in proclamations and not execution. Painting the roof and what color would depend on the parallel the building was in. Some might need to be black for example to save energy. But regardless there has been no active reaction to the concept.

  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Chet -- I'm not quite sure I follow what you are saying. However, as you point out having a white or light colored roof reflects sunlight, while a dark or black colored roof absorbs sunlight. It can make a difference in heating or cooling the house as the case may be, depending on whether you live in a hot or cold climate.

    Adding solar panels on the roof convert sunlight into electricity, and while the southwestern part of the USA has more sunshine and more applicability to solar energy, the fact is that solar panels can be used in almost any climate and geographical location. Certainly in the winter months they'll be less effective, but the opposite is true for summer months. As the technology for solar panels (and wind energy) improves and becomes more cost effective, I expect we'll see large increases in applications across the globe, not only in rooftop installations but in large solar farms.

    In so far as hurricanes go, I don't think the color of your roof makes a difference.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    The subject; if the sun contributes to global warming has nothing at all to do with "solar" panels. Indeed the "heat" of the sun ( If it rains less) dries out enormous area's like CA. Even the Sequia trees suffer badly while they are more than a 1000 years old; So indeed it is the blanked of pollution above us which causes the warm-up; not directly the sun. It is our pollution of fossil fuels etc.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    I didn't get into it, but what I though Chet was alluding to was the eleven year solar cycle and it's effect on the climate and weather.

    NASA: Do Variations in the Solar Cycle Affect Our Climate System?

    There are variations in solar radiance associated with the solar cycle and sun spots, but the amount of variation is vary small relative to the effects of anthropogenic climate change. NASA scientists have dismissed this effect as a cause of climate change.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote:

    I didn't get into it, but what I though Chet was alluding to was the eleven year solar cycle and it's effect on the climate and weather.

    NASA: Do Variations in the Solar Cycle Affect Our Climate System?

    There are variations in solar radiance associated with the solar cycle and sun spots, but the amount of variation is vary small relative to the effects of anthropogenic climate change. NASA scientists have dismissed this effect as a cause of climate change.

    Yes Schmidt you've got it right; indeed "humans" are somehow responsible for global warming not the sun.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    The point I was trying to make is that changing the color of a roof can have significant savings. But nobody does it . That savings is represented by less fuel burned to make electricity. It seems that the most important thing about the the source of warming is winning the debate. Not taking actions. Obama mentioned sir pressure in tires. Generally it was scoffed at but it would result in less fuel being burned. Regarding roof damage and changing the color of the roof. I used an elastomeric coating which is what most types of roof paint are made of. That coating sealed he shingles binding them to each other. That eliminated any loose edges for the winds to raise and eventually lift all the shingles off the roof. The coating could possibly save hundreds of millions of dollars. I started the roof painting idea as a result of riding around town and seeing low income housing with black shingles and window AC units. When I did my house it not only saved money but made the house more comfortable. I know it would have surly did the same for the low income housing. But there is no interest.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Chet -- Thanks for the clarification. The elastomer paint that you used on your roof was most likely the reason your roof survived the hurricane winds. The fact that it is white also helps out your air conditioning bill. However, I would do a lot of research before I would embark on a program to paint asphalt shingles on roofs that were not originally designed to be painted. Read this article:

    Industry Group Sees Dangers in Coating of Asphalt Roofing

    "The National Roofing Contractors Association’s (NRCA) director of technical services, in an article published early last year, cautioned that field application of coatings to asphalt-shingle roofs may be asking for trouble.

    “Roofing professionals long have recognized the viability and advantages of roof coatings for surfacing bituminous weatherproof roof membranes used as part of low-slope roof systems, and possess a great deal of experience with coating applications over roof membranes,” wrote Maciek Rupar, NRCA director of technical services. “This is not the case with field coating steep-slope roof coverings.

    “The fact is, the most widely used steep-slope roof covering—asphalt shingles—is not designed to accept or require field-applied surfacing,” Rupar said.

    "The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."The use of white, solar-reflective coatings often proves beneficial in reducing roof temperatures and contributing to lower cooling-energy demand. But the application of such coatings has been blamed for roof deterioration and leaks in a number of homes in South Florida, where the paint jobs were paid for in part with rebates offered by Florida Power & Light. The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope this is not the case for your roof.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- Thanks for the clarification. The elastomer paint that you used on your roof was most likely the reason your roof survived the hurricane winds. The fact that it is white also helps out your air conditioning bill. However, I would do a lot of research before I would embark on a program to paint asphalt shingles on roofs that were not originally designed to be painted. Read this article:

    Industry Group Sees Dangers in Coating of Asphalt Roofing

    "The National Roofing Contractors Association’s (NRCA) director of technical services, in an article published early last year, cautioned that field application of coatings to asphalt-shingle roofs may be asking for trouble.

    “Roofing professionals long have recognized the viability and advantages of roof coatings for surfacing bituminous weatherproof roof membranes used as part of low-slope roof systems, and possess a great deal of experience with coating applications over roof membranes,” wrote Maciek Rupar, NRCA director of technical services. “This is not the case with field coating steep-slope roof coverings.

    “The fact is, the most widely used steep-slope roof covering—asphalt shingles—is not designed to accept or require field-applied surfacing,” Rupar said.

    "The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."The use of white, solar-reflective coatings often proves beneficial in reducing roof temperatures and contributing to lower cooling-energy demand. But the application of such coatings has been blamed for roof deterioration and leaks in a number of homes in South Florida, where the paint jobs were paid for in part with rebates offered by Florida Power & Light. The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope this is not the case for your roof.

    Yes I live in S. FL your story is correct; I need a new roof ( shingles) and prefer light colored one; I had hurricane damage but patched it. No coatings is tricky because of the tar element in shingles; it heats up quickly here so that interacts with any coating. May be use "highway" asphalt paint?
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- Thanks for the clarification. The elastomer paint that you used on your roof was most likely the reason your roof survived the hurricane winds. The fact that it is white also helps out your air conditioning bill. However, I would do a lot of research before I would embark on a program to paint asphalt shingles on roofs that were not originally designed to be painted. Read this article:

    Industry Group Sees Dangers in Coating of Asphalt Roofing

    "The National Roofing Contractors Association’s (NRCA) director of technical services, in an article published early last year, cautioned that field application of coatings to asphalt-shingle roofs may be asking for trouble.

    “Roofing professionals long have recognized the viability and advantages of roof coatings for surfacing bituminous weatherproof roof membranes used as part of low-slope roof systems, and possess a great deal of experience with coating applications over roof membranes,” wrote Maciek Rupar, NRCA director of technical services. “This is not the case with field coating steep-slope roof coverings.

    “The fact is, the most widely used steep-slope roof covering—asphalt shingles—is not designed to accept or require field-applied surfacing,” Rupar said.

    "The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."The use of white, solar-reflective coatings often proves beneficial in reducing roof temperatures and contributing to lower cooling-energy demand. But the application of such coatings has been blamed for roof deterioration and leaks in a number of homes in South Florida, where the paint jobs were paid for in part with rebates offered by Florida Power & Light. The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope this is not the case for your roof.

    Yes I live in S. FL your story is correct; I need a new roof ( shingles) and prefer light colored one; I had hurricane damage but patched it. No coatings is tricky because of the tar element in shingles; it heats up quickly here so that interacts with any coating. May be use "highway" asphalt paint?
    The point I was trying to make is that the execution of energy saving ideas is very limited. Most ideas are not palpable enough to get public money or support. For example the 1990 Geo Metro could easily get 50 MPG. Now any high mpg car is the result "new technology" that has to capture the imagination of the consumer. That is the result of privatizing the good for people.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Pensacola, FL
    Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Chet Ruminski Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Chet -- Thanks for the clarification. The elastomer paint that you used on your roof was most likely the reason your roof survived the hurricane winds. The fact that it is white also helps out your air conditioning bill. However, I would do a lot of research before I would embark on a program to paint asphalt shingles on roofs that were not originally designed to be painted. Read this article:

    Industry Group Sees Dangers in Coating of Asphalt Roofing

    "The National Roofing Contractors Association’s (NRCA) director of technical services, in an article published early last year, cautioned that field application of coatings to asphalt-shingle roofs may be asking for trouble.

    “Roofing professionals long have recognized the viability and advantages of roof coatings for surfacing bituminous weatherproof roof membranes used as part of low-slope roof systems, and possess a great deal of experience with coating applications over roof membranes,” wrote Maciek Rupar, NRCA director of technical services. “This is not the case with field coating steep-slope roof coverings. covering—asphalt shingles—is not designed to accept or require field-applied surfacing,” Rupar said.

    "The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."The use of white, solar-reflective coatings often proves beneficial in reducing roof temperatures and contributing to lower cooling-energy demand. But the application of such coatings has been blamed for roof deterioration and leaks in a number of homes in South Florida, where the paint jobs were paid for in part with rebates offered by Florida Power & Light. The utility is a target in a lawsuit filed by several homeowners who hired contractors to apply the coatings, the result of an FPL program aimed at helping customers reduce energy use."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope this is not the case for your roof.

    Yes I live in S. FL your story is correct; I need a new roof ( shingles) and prefer light colored one; I had hurricane damage but patched it. No coatings is tricky because of the tar element in shingles; it heats up quickly here so that interacts with any coating. May be use "highway" asphalt paint?
    The point I was trying to make is that the execution of energy saving ideas is very limited. Most ideas are not palpable enough to get public money or support. For example the 1990 Geo Metro could easily get 50 MPG. Now any high mpg car is the result "new technology" that has to capture the imagination of the consumer. That is the result of privatizing the good for people.

    The National Roofing Contractors Association :.The Association says that steep slope shingles are not designed to or need field applied surfacing. But the application of such coatings has been blamed for roof deterioration and leaks in a number of homes in South Florida, where the paint jobs were paid for in part with rebates offered by Florida Power & Light. The NRCA is protecting their interests. If in fact the coatings were causing damage it would be a windfall for the NRCA and in their best interests not to warn against coatings. I would venture to say that nobody coats a new roof. That being said I would then say that damages noted after the coating were probably there before the coating was applied. The NRCA acknowledges benefits from membrane coatings on flat roofs. Then to infer problems from coatings on steep roofs is counter intuitive. If the membrane is beneficial in pooling water conditions it challenges logic to ascribe negative results where water runs off.. It can easily be proven by equation which I will present later but : Resolving forces on water look at gravity, viscosity, and coefficient of friction. The sine of the angle of the roof indicates the reaction of flowing water reduce by the coefficient of friction of the roof and the viscosity of water. If the angle of the roof approaches horizontal or zero degrees then the sine is 0 and 0 as a multiplier means the water doesn't flow. If the angle of the roof Is vertical or 90 degrees then the water flows is maximum spending the least amount of time on the roof. Any leaking or damage would have origins other than the coating. I would say the conditions were prexisting because probably nobody would coat a new roof for a multitude of reasons. Whatever the reasons are I don't see much movement toward energy saving compatible roof coatings. Regarding other energy I did a casual calculation showing that approximately two thousand gallons of gasoline are wasted each day keeping the lights of a car on after the car is turned off. I could not find any data about the benefits of leaving the lights on for an extended period of time after the car is shut off. My observations are in general empirical about the use of everything. I only have intuitive data about the savings in energy, tires and repair costs from the effects of light acceleration vs lead foot driving. But it is significant.