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Rejecting Islam...or any other religion

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Phil Zukerman, Psychology Today, July 6, 2015: Rejecting Islam: The trauma of apostasy in Muslim communities

    Dr. Zuckerman's article is of interest for those who try to understand the absolute hold that religion, in this case Islam, holds over people, and how difficult it is to leave the religion.

    ""Walking away from religion is seldom easy. It can be psychologically difficult to lose one’s faith in God, emotionally painful to doubt the existence of life after death, and existentially trying to come to terms with the fact that there is nothing supernatural out there: no magical realms, no paranormal powers, no divine beings. Just us, this planet, the universe, and the unavoidably mind-blowing mystery of it all.

    "However, when it comes to apostasy—the rejection of one’s religion—the personal loss of faith is actually often the least of one’s struggles. Much more worrying, awkward, and potentially damaging is the toll apostasy takes on one’s relationships with others. People who reject their religion often face strained relations—or worse— with spouses, parents, siblings, children, and friends. And this problem is particularly strong among contemporary Muslim communities."

    The article is based on his book, The Apostates: When Muslims Leave Islam, and while its focus is on Islam (or a perhaps more accurately, a certain fundamentalist form of Islam), he also cites Hasidic Judaism, fundamentalist Mormonism, fundamentalist Christians, and stalwart Scientologists as examples of religious denominations that also make it extremely difficult for their former followers to leave their faith.

    The article is relatively short and has some heart breaking examples of what happens when a young person rejects the faith of their parents. From my own perspective, religious leaders hold sway over much of the flock because of the social pressures. Your social life and your religious institution are one and the same, and to reject one's faith, one also has to walk away from all their friends, but also sadly endure the rejection of the parents and siblings...or in the case of extreme Islam (Sharia Law) face death.

    Lest anyone use this as a reason why Christians must see Muslims as the enemy, remember that the Bible too calls for the same harsh punishments for apostates of Christianity...death. The article is worth your time to read...not just my selected extract.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Phil Zukerman, Psychology Today, July 6, 2015: Rejecting Islam: The trauma of apostasy in Muslim communities

    Dr. Zuckerman's article is of interest for those that try to understand the absolute hold that religion, in this case Islam, holds over people, and how difficult it is to leave the religion.

    ""Walking away from religion is seldom easy. It can be psychologically difficult to lose one’s faith in God, emotionally painful to doubt the existence of life after death, and existentially trying to come to terms with the fact that there is nothing supernatural out there: no magical realms, no paranormal powers, no divine beings. Just us, this planet, the universe, and the unavoidably mind-blowing mystery of it all.

    "However, when it comes to apostasy—the rejection of one’s religion—the personal loss of faith is actually often the least of one’s struggles. Much more worrying, awkward, and potentially damaging is the toll apostasy takes on one’s relationships with others. People who reject their religion often face strained relations—or worse— with spouses, parents, siblings, children, and friends. And this problem is particularly strong among contemporary Muslim communities."

    The article is based on his book, The Apostates: When Muslims Leave Islam, and while its focus is on Islam (or a perhaps more accurately, a certain fundamentalist form of Islam), he also cites Hasidic Judaism, fundamentalist Mormonism, fundamentalist Christians, and stalwart Scientologists as examples of religious denominations that also make it extremely difficult for their former followers to leave their faith.

    The article is relatively short and has some heart breaking examples of what happens when a young person rejects the faith of their parents. From my own perspective, religious leaders hold sway over much of the flock because of the social pressures. Your social life and your religious institution are one and the same, and to reject one's faith, one also has to walk away from all their friends, but also sadly endure the rejection of the parents and siblings...or in the case of extreme Islam (Sharia Law) face death.

    Lest anyone use this as a reason why Christians must see Muslims as the enemy, remember that the Bible too calls for the same harsh punishments for apostates of Christianity...death. The article is worth your time to read...not just my selected extract.

    Schmidt, good piece. Indeed it shows why people stick to these things; it is the indoctrination without any thought. That is why people are still in the "animal" world and want to belong to the "herd". If you pump in nonsense for centuries then it becomes a "norm" just like "eating" etc. Due to the fact I was an orphan, I had the chance to think about what is real and what is fantasy; a lot of people don't have that "freedom" because they live in a family who dictates what to belief.

    It is a real shame that "open" discussions are impossible with these people, because they keep pointing at "human" writings, without "doubting" any of it, because if they do, their "herd" will reject them..

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    This article is right on! If it weren't for family and peer pressure religion would have died its well deserved death a long time ago!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: The article is relatively short and has some heart breaking examples of what happens when a young person rejects the faith of their parents. From my own perspective, religious leaders hold sway over much of the flock because of the social pressures. Your social life and your religious institution are one and the same, and to reject one's faith, one also has to walk away from all their friends, but also sadly endure the rejection of the parents and siblings...or in the case of extreme Islam (Sharia Law) face death.

    Thanks for sharing Schmidt.

    This paragraph really sticks out with me. I am a closeted atheist with most of my family because I am terrified of being judged by them for not believing in the god they believe in. Most of my family doesn't understand what atheism even is and tends to equate it with devil worshiping. My only brother is the sole person in my family who knows what I believe and he's encouraged me to tell the rest of my family, but I will admit that is a hell of a lot easier said than done when it comes to "Bible Belt" Baptists.

    What's so sad about the current state of affairs in religion is how the extreme of each religion is winning the day. It doesn't matter if they are right wing Christians, fundamentalist Muslims, or ultra-Zionist Jews because they all want the same thing--ushering in the end of the world to fulfill prophecies that a random human being wrote thousands of years ago.

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    And, as you have learned, that is religions power over people. Fear!
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pr Wrote: And, as you have learned, that is religions power over people. Fear!

    P.R. indeed church leaders pump in fear based on old pieces of paper written by humans, who did not have the science or knowledge of today. If you would be able to tell those people that "humans" have now close up pictures of Pluto, those same people would declare you insane. I fully understand Jared's problem; indoctrination is like a strong drug which you can't shake. The part I don't understand is that especially in the US they are so mentally incapable of accepting reality. In Europe you can discuss such subject openly. Sorry to say this is the land of fanatic preachers who love power over the people and people fall for it because they love to be ignorant.. Regardless if the Constitution demands separation of "church" and "government" these fanatics still want it their way. Just now again there is an issue about aborted fetuses which are being used for medical tests etc. The "fanatics" now claim profit is being made by doing that and are making a big issue about it. NUTS. A lot of religious non- aborted kids get killed anyway by raising them for cannon fodder for our war zone's or as right now our enlistment offices. What a country.

    Sorry "religion" is for "dummy's" a new book which I'm going to write; either come with real proof or shut up.

  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    "Religion for Dummies"................I'm laughing good this morning on this. I must have had way too much coffee because I find this so funny.

    "A Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."

    Although, Religion is often discussed in the majority of circles in the beliefs of those in God or a Supreme Being, it is worldly accepted as even those that disbelieve in God or a Supreme Being. Religion can be about a persons beliefs in sports, beer, food, sex, whatever you are habitually involved in as part of a lifestyle. If there are many of you with similar lifestyle beliefs, than you are group and if you identify with an organization than you are a Religious Order with all the rights and benefits governments may give.

    Since Atheism is often identified in this forum, it is belief ( having no God), it is a cultural system (as a world lifestyle in atheistic commonality), and it is worldly view relating to humanity (without God) as an order of existence. Atheists are extremely mad due to their inability to escape the reality they are a Religion. An example of organized Atheists is the "American Atheists". It is a national organized group soliciting donations, which are fully tax deductible because the IRS identifies the group as a Religion. Similarly, the Agnostic may also be identified as a Religion.

    If it walks and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.........................Religion for Dummies........................sounds like bathroom potty reading material.

  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Mr Dutch,

    If indoctrination is a drug then these addicts need rehabillitation. I believe fear is no longer a factor in believers. I believe it to be self righteousness. The new crazy right wing fanatic.....cannot hold a viable conversation in any other subject other then....Yes, the one true god...Yes, Good ole Jesus...the mexican lord.

    People always say to me I need to be more tolerant. No I don't. I don't tolerate insanity...nor stupidity. You don't get a free pass because your're stupidity is protected by statute, Yes, they are protected for worship only....but I can call them what I please. I can respond to their bullshit....yes...my bullshit is also protected by statute.

    And yes....all bullshit. Change requires not only knowledge, but also to look at yourself and say...."Hey, I'm an idiot and I need to re-evaluate.

    People wont do that,,,,because remember, they hold the secret knowledge.....they're smarter then the rest of us....and see themselves as maybe wiser because they hold this special relationship and understanding with a fictitious superman who looks out for "THEM"

    Society is becoming more of a joke every day.....HOW DOES A HILLY BILLY GET A CIRCUMSITION????? BY KICKING HIS SISTER IN THE JAW

  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Good one, hillbilly, that isWink
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote:

    "Religion for Dummies"................I'm laughing good this morning on this. I must have had way too much coffee because I find this so funny.

    "A Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."

    Although, Religion is often discussed in the majority of circles in the beliefs of those in God or a Supreme Being, it is worldly accepted as even those that disbelieve in God or a Supreme Being. Religion can be about a persons beliefs in sports, beer, food, sex, whatever you are habitually involved in as part of a lifestyle. If there are many of you with similar lifestyle beliefs, than you are group and if you identify with an organization than you are a Religious Order with all the rights and benefits governments may give.

    Since Atheism is often identified in this forum, it is belief ( having no God), it is a cultural system (as a world lifestyle in atheistic commonality), and it is worldly view relating to humanity (without God) as an order of existence. Atheists are extremely mad due to their inability to escape the reality they are a Religion. An example of organized Atheists is the "American Atheists". It is a national organized group soliciting donations, which are fully tax deductible because the IRS identifies the group as a Religion. Similarly, the Agnostic may also be identified as a Religion.

    If it walks and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.........................Religion for Dummies........................sounds like bathroom potty reading material.

    As usuall, you get everything wrong. Non-belief is not religion, never has been, never will.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Is believing in nothing a belief? hmmm?
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    johnnycee Wrote: Is believing in nothing a belief? hmmm?

    I'm gonna have to say no. Believing is accepting something to be true. Values, situations ...and maybe where it applies in your life.

    The saying" birds of a feather"....well, I don't hang with a flock.....People have, are, and will always be full of shit.

    People are so selfish that there are personal motivators that affect us from the very moment we wake up. Know the motive...know the person.

    This is third grade stuff....we know the problem. ...because we are the problem.

    Anytime any of us have to rationalize the things that we do to others and ourselves: A prime indicator that we are completely full of shit.....myself included

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote: Is believing in nothing a belief? hmmm?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sure I "belief" that there are plenty of "dummy's" around who think "something" from "outer space" which they have never "seen" or "met" or "spoken" to, or got a "verbal" answer from any such entity ever visited earth, let alone wrote human book's on goat skins; Let alone that "water and ice" on Pluto never wrote a "human" book either. Also I "belief" there is a "la la land" somewhere suited for "believers" out there; our space exploration will be happy to search for it before the tax money runs out.. Believers book your ticket to Mars now; this is the last call for discounted tickets.

    So,Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm is the greatest "nothing" answer I've ever had.

    Schmidt, you started something; wow.!

  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Dutch Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: Is believing in nothing a belief? hmmm?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sure I "belief" that there are plenty of "dummy's" around who think "something" from "outer space" which they have never "seen" or "met" or "spoken" to, or got a "verbal" answer from any such entity ever visited earth, let alone wrote human book's on goat skins; Let alone that "water and ice" on Pluto never wrote a "human" book either. Also I "belief" there is a "la la land" somewhere suited for "believers" out there; our space exploration will be happy to search for it before the tax money runs out.. Believers book your ticket to Mars now; this is the last call for discounted tickets.

    So,Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm is the greatest "nothing" answer I've ever had.

    Dutch,

    Are you saying that aliens didn't come here having spent multiple light years crossing the universe just to teach Mesopotamia how to cut stone in a straight line.

    I don't know how I'll sleep tonight.. you've crushed my beliefs....u sir need to be more tolerant

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: Is believing in nothing a belief? hmmm?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sure I "belief" that there are plenty of "dummy's" around who think "something" from "outer space" which they have never "seen" or "met" or "spoken" to, or got a "verbal" answer from any such entity ever visited earth, let alone wrote human book's on goat skins; Let alone that "water and ice" on Pluto never wrote a "human" book either. Also I "belief" there is a "la la land" somewhere suited for "believers" out there; our space exploration will be happy to search for it before the tax money runs out.. Believers book your ticket to Mars now; this is the last call for discounted tickets.

    So,Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm is the greatest "nothing" answer I've ever had.

    Dutch,

    Are you saying that aliens didn't come here having spent multiple light years crossing the universe just to teach Mesopotamia how to cut stone in a straight line.

    I don't know how I'll sleep tonight.. you've crushed my beliefs....u sir need to be more tolerant

    I thought I was super tolerant; considering I "pray" every day to win the 'lotto" and never win. I think I'm going to built a "minaret" with super loudspeakers so outer space can hear me; may be then I win and a little green Marsian will come with a wheel barrel full of gold at my doorstep.