Forum Thread

2 suggestions: IQ test for voters - & a new DUAL presidency (one man & one woman)

Reply to ThreadDisplaying 16 - 26 of 26 Prev 1 2
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Hello Schmidt: I never cease to be amazed at all your research and patient explanations of every issue. I learn so much from you, and have seldom had the time to really tell you how much I appreciate that, as does everyone else. It is also amazing to know someone who actually does volunteer work in getting the people out to VOTE. It is an exhausting prospect, but (as they say) "somebody" has to do it. And if YOU couldn't do it, then nobody can. God Bless You.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Thanks EF. I suppose you could say I've been "battle tested" in that I have canvassed for not only candidate Obama but also President Obama as well as other candidates. Going door-to-door ringing door bells can be very disheartening at times. I have been sworn at and shouted at...had many doors slammed in my face. But every now and then I will find a person that will talk and listen, and I suppose that makes up for all the negatives. I have registered many voters, and I think I have made a difference for some of the open minded people I have had conversations with. But by and large I have to admit that those instances were relatively few compared to the rejections.

    I say this from the viewpoint of "grass roots volunteer" in a very Republican city. I know how difficult it is and how the rewards can seem small compared to the effort that I put into it. I helped elect Obama in 2008 and 2012. I served as a Democratic Party Precinct Chair for four of those years, and my biggest frustration was with the apathy and ignorance of many of the people I met. These are otherwise intelligent people, both Democrats and Republicans, and they can engage you in a conversation on a lot of things, but when it comes to basic civics about how government works...the three branches of government, filibustering and cloture, Hastert rule, and other basic stuff, then I lose them. Huh?, they ask.

    That includes many of my liberal friends who expected Obama to be a "King" or a "messiah" to just make things happen, but became impatient and disillusioned when he wasn't able to create jobs as quickly as they would have liked, oblivious to the fact that Republicans in Congress obstructed his every move. Some reverted to calling him the "lessor of two evils" which I took to mean that they didn't appreciate the obstacles that Republicans put in his way.

    So now I see the same energy and passion of many young people engaging in a grass roots effort to make Bernie Sanders as our next President. Like Obama before him, they are inspired by his words, but probably have little appreciation of what it will take to make it happen. After the election, if that grass roots movement doesn't sustain itself, then come 2018, all the gains of 2016 will be lost. That happened to Obama in 2010 and again in 2014, despite telling ourselves we will NOT have a repeat of 2010. We worked hard to not have that repeat, but 2014 was just as bad as 2010, if not even worse. When only 40 percent of the voter eligible people vote in these midterm elections, we lose everything we gained in the previous election.

    The point I am making is that the elections need to be about the issues and not the person. My liberal friends will get out and support President Obama or a Bernie Sanders on election day, but in the midterms they will be off doing their own stuff...less engaged. A true grass roots movement needs to be about the issues that really matter to the individuals. Doing your thing once every four years for an inspirational candidate is not a true grass roots movement. We get distracted complaining about all the voter suppression laws or the fact that Obama had to compromise on a budget or something else. It doesn't take much for idealistic liberals to turn on their own person, whether it's Hillary, Bernie or Barack. I've watched it happen with Hillary Clinton and President Obama. It will also happen with Bernie Sanders. It's just the way our politics work. My experiences have made me somewhat of a cynic, but nevertheless, I'll be out in the neighborhoods again in 2016 canvassing for our Democratic candidate, whoever it is.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:

    At this point it would probably not be productive for me to continue this discussion.

    However, I will leave you with the following words from the beginning of a video titled What Would A Modern Messiah Say?

    (The speaker/author is the man who wrote under the name of Joseph J. Adamson, and sings and speaks as J.J. Jeffers. The name his parents gave him has not yet revealed, because according to the prophet Isaiah he is to be "hidden," as he mentions in the speech.)

    Greetings to everyone – people of all nations. I speak out now about the future, because right now the future seems bleak for most of us. Our world is seriously at risk, many of us are in despair, and many of us suffer. And by now, many of you know some of the reasons why.

    So the question is this: Since there is so much corruption and unfairness in the world, and since the misleading forces of greed and self-interest use their wealth and power to their own benefit and to the detriment of the great majority, what do we do about it?

    I know that most of you feel powerless. Some of you feel helpless and hopeless, some of you are just apathetic, and many of you are angry. After all, the protests demonstrated in many countries were all fruitless, and in most instances they were dangerous. So, as our situation worsens, I understand why there is a growing search for a conquering hero.

    But, I am not a warrior -- unless you consider that the pen will ultimately prove mightier than the sword. I am just a messenger, and a counselor who tells you that you do not need anyone playing Warlord, or King, or God or Savior, because only the eternal One is the Savior, which by any other name is God, The Holy One. And its Spirit of truth will liberate and empower all of us, because it is within all of us.

    When you realize that, and what it means for us, you will come to realize this fact: We, the people, must liberate and empower ourselves. And to do that we need to establish good and fair governments that will actually be of the people, by the people, and for the people. But right now we don’t have that.

    What we have, as you well know, are governments of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich. But we the people can change that, and we can do it legally and peacefully, especially in America, thanks to the Constitution which has provisions for us to do that in Article 5. And we can establish good and fair government that will promote the general welfare, as America’s Founders intended, and use the common wealth for the common good.

    Of course that will take a change of heart, mind and attitude, on everyone’s part. And it will help if everyone realizes that we are all created equal in the sight of God, which is really the Great Spirit-Parent of us all. We are all members of one diverse family that we call humanity. And we should celebrate our diversity — rather than use it as an excuse to take on attitudes of superiority and judge others as inferior, as so many misguided people do.

    I tell you that because many of you are listening to the wrong people – to self-righteous people, self-important people, bigoted people, hypocritical people, and greedy people who are very deceptive — all of whom think they are superior, whether it’s because of their wealth or religion or nationality or political party or race. But I tell you that people who take on such attitudes of superiority are obstacles to human progress, and human evolution.

    Now rather than listen to them, I ask you to seek the Spirit of truth that is within you, because the Spirit of truth comes not to condemn but to educate; not to punish but to correct; and not to destroy but to save.

    I serve the Spirit of truth, and I ask you to join me in doing so — regardless of your religion, and whether you are religious or not. After all, the Spirit of truth is universal, and the Spirit of truth is also the Spirit of love, the Spirit of freedom, the Spirit of justice, and the Spirit of Peace – all of which we so desperately need now.

    Guy, sorry a silly dumb story; only good for la la land. "Constitutions" or an "the eternal savior" won't save your butt; all nice words I must say; suited for church people, but you forget the "real" world and its people around you. Study some history books instead of people who can write "dreamy" words to make you feel good. I'm a realist not a dreamer. I think neither is Schmidt and some others on this site. The point is that the destiny of people is not determined by what you think or write but purely as they say, on how the cookie crumbles. We've got an whole self-contained world with masses of people who all wants to move in different directions; there never will be a uniform mindset in this world; neither in the US. Our animal instinct wins it all the time; even animals know greed; stay away from my piece of meat. Survival of the fittest is still the case; which could mean also the one's with the survival means, like money, power over the people. Again all of this is pure "nature" of the beast, called "human". Even the Pope did apologize for "beastly" behavior of his church in S. America.

    Again Guy "history" never lies.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Thanks EF. I suppose you could say I've been "battle tested" in that I have canvassed for not only candidate Obama but also President Obama as well as other candidates. Going door-to-door ringing door bells can be very disheartening at times. I have been sworn at and shouted at...had many doors slammed in my face. But every now and then I will find a person that will talk and listen, and I suppose that makes up for all the negatives. I have registered many voters, and I think I have made a difference for some of the open minded people I have had conversations with. But by and large I have to admit that those instances were relatively few compared to the rejections.

    I say this from the viewpoint of "grass roots volunteer" in a very Republican city. I know how difficult it is and how the rewards can seem small compared to the effort that I put into it. I helped elect Obama in 2008 and 2012. I served as a Democratic Party Precinct Chair for four of those years, and my biggest frustration was with the apathy and ignorance of many of the people I met. These are otherwise intelligent people, both Democrats and Republicans, and they can engage you in a conversation on a lot of things, but when it comes to basic civics about how government works...the three branches of government, filibustering and cloture, Hastert rule, and other basic stuff, then I lose them. Huh?, they ask.

    That includes many of my liberal friends who expected Obama to be a "King" or a "messiah" to just make things happen, but became impatient and disillusioned when he wasn't able to create jobs as quickly as they would have liked, oblivious to the fact that Republicans in Congress obstructed his every move. Some reverted to calling him the "lessor of two evils" which I took to mean that they didn't appreciate the obstacles that Republicans put in his way.

    So now I see the same energy and passion of many young people engaging in a grass roots effort to make Bernie Sanders as our next President. Like Obama before him, they are inspired by his words, but probably have little appreciation of what it will take to make it happen. After the election, if that grass roots movement doesn't sustain itself, then come 2018, all the gains of 2016 will be lost. That happened to Obama in 2010 and again in 2014, despite telling ourselves we will NOT have a repeat of 2010. We worked hard to not have that repeat, but 2014 was just as bad as 2010, if not even worse. When only 40 percent of the voter eligible people vote in these midterm elections, we lose everything we gained in the previous election.

    The point I am making is that the elections need to be about the issues and not the person. My liberal friends will get out and support President Obama or a Bernie Sanders on election day, but in the midterms they will be off doing their own stuff...less engaged. A true grass roots movement needs to be about the issues that really matter to the individuals. Doing your thing once every four years for an inspirational candidate is not a true grass roots movement. We get distracted complaining about all the voter suppression laws or the fact that Obama had to compromise on a budget or something else. It doesn't take much for idealistic liberals to turn on their own person, whether it's Hillary, Bernie or Barack. I've watched it happen with Hillary Clinton and President Obama. It will also happen with Bernie Sanders. It's just the way our politics work. My experiences have made me somewhat of a cynic, but nevertheless, I'll be out in the neighborhoods again in 2016 canvassing for our Democratic candidate, whoever it is.

    Yes, Schmidt, you've got the picture as well some bloody noses in the process; indeed "the issues" are the thing to focus on , not the candidate. Also a good check is where does the money come from, to get people in the saddle. I think you are a daring solicitor; so I hope it helps a bit. They asked me one time, but found out that they had no clue in convincing people because they asked if I would "run" 5 miles with a "D" T-shirt on; which I thought was a disaster.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch -- Yes it's the money and we like to tell ourselves that a good grass roots effort can overcome all the wealthy donors. That's what Bernie Sanders is counting on. However, when much of that money translates into some of the most offensive and idiotic TV ads on both sides I hate to even donate any more. Yet being a realist, I have to admit that the American public watches those ads and is influenced by them. The campaigns do polling in selected areas to test the effectiveness of their ads, and as much as I hate to say it, negative ads work. It's a sad commentary on our election system that we contribute billions to campaigns that buy a bunch of idiotic TV ads played over and over and over again that we can't stand to watch even once. I live in a swing state as do you, so we probably see more than our fair share of these ads.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Schmidt Wrote:

    Adding to Dutch's discussion, while it is easy to point the finger at the Executive branch of government, would the Constitutional Convention ignore the bigger problem, in my mind, of the broken Congress? Getting rid of a single point executive and installing instead an executive committee of 12 (or two in EF's proposal) doesn't really solve the underlying problem. And if the executive committee is split, who is the decider?

    The current clout of the "Religious Military Industrial Empire" lies not exclusively with the executive branch, but rather our Congress that controls defense budgets and spending in general. The Party of No in Congress has clearly demonstrated by their actions that they can sabotage the executive branch's every move. They have attempted to do that with impunity by filibustering, blocking key legislation, holding up nominations, ransom demands and outright shutdowns of government...and a propaganda and hate campaign against our first African American president.

    Schmidt,

    I appreciate your knowledge, experience, and reasonable comments. I’ve seen how most people on this board respect you for that, and I do too.

    However, even though I fully understand your point of view, I can also see how and why you do not understand the full scope of the message I promote, especially The 21st Century Declaration of Independence.

    For example, the goal of putting an end to partisan politics and the divisive competition for political power does not merely call for reform and change of the executive branch. It calls for reform of the whole system of federal and state government.

    For instance, here is beginning of the fifth paragraph of the Declaration:

    “Furthermore, since this inequitable political-economic system of government functions by a money-driven, partisan political contest for sovereign presidential power and congressional dominance, the people are repeatedly divided and polarized by a foolish and juvenile partisan rivalry for the throne and the chambers of political power.”

    Here are some relevant pieces of the itemized part of the Declaration:

    2) Revise, alter, amend, update and improve the U.S. Constitution utilizing provisions in Article 5 of the Constitution, acknowledging that partisan politics and the money-driven, winner-take-all competition for the throne and for control of Congress merely perpetuates conflict and division and causes government to serve the interests of the wealthiest few to our detriment;

    3) Take all peaceful, legal political action necessary to pressure legislators in the federal and state governments into calling for and holding an Article 5 Constitutional Convention, with this Declaration as an action item agenda;

    Further on ...

    6) Ensure that the executive council shall have equal voice and equal decision-making power, but may choose a peer facilitator and spokesperson if they choose, that their decisions shall be by consensus or by two thirds majority vote when not unanimous, and that all council members will be at all times available to hold meetings through electronic conferences wherever they may be in the world;

    7) Establish a reasonable electoral method for the election of members of Congress to eliminate primary elections and put an end to partisan political attacks, and instead require candidates to simply express their personal views and opinions, not as partisans but as respectful peers who wish to be public servants and real representatives of all the people they are supposed to represent;

    8) Ensure that the same or similar electoral process and system is used for the election of state governors and state legislators, and for city mayors and city councils;

    Further down on the page it says:

    This would replace partisan politics and the competition for the throne, which merely perpetuates corruption, conflict and division. Moreover, it would ensure that Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court would initially be appointed not by a partisan president, but by a non-partisan Executive Council of peers who will ensure fairness.

    But above all, it would cure our main problem — because after all, as Jesus of Nazareth said, and as Abraham Lincoln quoted, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

    Again, I understand your concerns, but as I have stated in this thread and on my thread titled Why America Does Not Yet Have Real Democracy, the power of the people can be mustered, and the power of the people can and will force federal and state legislators to obey the will of the people.

    And, by the way, I agree with your comment to EF in which you wrote that voters should focus on the issues, not the candidate. As the message I promote emphasizes, Americans need to stop look for conquering heroes and "saviors," because only we, the people, can and will establish government that is of, by and for the people.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    eternal flame Wrote:

    Hi Guy: THANKS for your latest comments (July 12, PM) --- It is so refreshing to the mind and spirit, to hear encouraging words of Peace & possible survival of our devastated planet. Especially for America, with so many interior enemies, steadily eating away at our heart & soul. They are so powerful, & so numerous, & so rich, we wonder how can WE prevail? But your words provide the answer, & the HOPE. I can never thank you enough for your calm responses. Please stay with us, and keep us company. You are a National Treasure, (a phrase I seldom ever use) except to the best & most exceptional people. (Even if they are very humble).

    EF,

    Thank you for the encouragement. You can't imagine how much it is appreciated.

    As you can see, I did continue the discussion with Schmidt, because I too respect him and value his comments.

    And I will not stay away for too long.

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Guy --

    As you state, "the power of the people can be mustered, and the power of the people can and will force federal and state legislators to obey the will of the people." That is certainly true. I will agree to that to the extent that the "power of the people" can unseat a government or despot of a ruler. The unification of the people around that single cause is perhaps the easier part. The difficult part is the next step: "Where do we go from here?" As, for example, the Arab Spring, the Iraq war aftermath, the difficulty of governing Afghanistan, the Germany reunification, and Russia's brief experiment with democracy all show, change is indeed possible. However, the religious, tribal, ethnic, cultural and demographic differences that may have taken a back seat in the single purpose to get rid of the "oppression", will now rear their ugly heads as the various factions engage in power grabs. Greed is, of course, a characteristic of all of us, and we can study failed governments all the way back to ancient times, and find that for those societies that failed, it was because of greed. And by greed, I am not suggesting just wealth, but rather also power. Religious leaders as well as politically astute oligarchs are particular adept at grabbing power using fear and ignorance as a tool to control the masses. Bob Altemeyer's book, The Authoritarians, addresses how authoritarian leaders can control authoritarian followers so easily.

    I don't differentiate between these countries and the United States when it comes to the human psyche. In the Civil War, the north may have "conquered" the South in terms of military might, but the fact that the Confederate battle flag is such a symbol of their defiance 150 years later suggests that the victors did not win their hearts and minds. Tribalism trumps nationalism in the Arab countries as well as parts of America. The fact that our Federal government (the Feds) is so despised by so many is indicative that we are not as patriotic as many might think...or perhaps, the word "patriotism" means different things to different people, much the same as the word "democracy" is thrown around with such ease, but not necessarily consistent with the "egalitarianism" in the minds of many liberals.

    My fear of a Constitutional Convention is that all the tribal, religious, ethnic, political and regional differences will be at the forefront of the debate, and these factions will manifest themselves into winners and losers...the "conquerors" and the "conquered" for the lack of better words. Will our government be any more unified than it was before? I think not. Changing people's brains is extremely difficult, and for a whole society to change it will take generations if at all. In reading Hibbing, Smith and Alford's book, Predisposed: Liberals, Conservatives, and the Biology of Political Differences, it may be impossible to change some minds.

    That's not to say that we cannot steer our society as a whole into a more egalitarian society. I believe that's indeed possible, but for me the easier route is not a Constitutional Convention that will be fraught will all kinds of petty tribal infighting, but rather just getting people to participate in our wonderful democracy by educating themselves on the issues and voting. That, of course, is also a monumental task...getting people to feel passionate enough to become engaged. The non-voters in this country by various studies lean 70 percent "more liberal". That is the demographic that I will again be working on this next election. Call it HOPE!

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Schmidt,

    I agree that it may be impossible to change some minds. In fact, I suspect that around 20 or 25 percent of Americans will hold out and cling to their notions of superiority, whether those notions are based on their wealth or religion or partisan ideology or race.

    I also agree that in spite of that, we can steer our society as a whole into a more egalitarian society.

    However, I am not afraid that a Constitutional Convention would be stymied by.partisan obstruction. Granted, your fear of that is logical, assuming today's political climate will not change. However, as I said in my thread about Why America Does Not Yet Have Real Democracy, the battle will have already been won prior to a Constitutional Convention. In fact, a Convention could not be held UNTIL the battle is won.

    A Constitutional Convention cannot be held unless and until two-thirds of both houses of Congress call for it, or unless a national convention is assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the states. And that will not happen unless and until a clear and decided majority of the people stand up to be counted and demand that a Constitutional Convention be held, and also demand that The 21st Century Declaration of Independence be used as action items for a Convention agenda.

    If a clear and convincing majority of the American people take action and register their demands through citizens initiatives, petitions, demonstrations and all the other ways and avenues we have to make our demands known, politicians in Congress and in state legislatures will be put on notice. And as I've said, office-holding politicians do what is politically expedient.

    Of course, this idea goes against the traditional ways of gaining political power. But the traditional ways are all about individuals and their partisan political parties gaining political power, whereas this idea is not about any individual or any party. It is about the people, and it is especially about liberating and empowering the people.

    The catch is that it depends on the people, and it depends on the people getting the message.

    .

  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Guy Dwyer Wrote:

    Schmidt,

    I agree that it may be impossible to change some minds. In fact, I suspect that around 20 or 25 percent of Americans will hold out and cling to their notions of superiority, whether those notions are based on their wealth or religion or partisan ideology or race.

    I also agree that in spite of that, we can steer our society as a whole into a more egalitarian society.

    However, I am not afraid that a Constitutional Convention would be stymied by.partisan obstruction. Granted, your fear of that is logical, assuming today's political climate will not change. However, as I said in my thread about Why America Does Not Yet Have Real Democracy, the battle will have already been won prior to a Constitutional Convention. In fact, a Convention could not be held UNTIL the battle is won.

    A Constitutional Convention cannot be held unless and until two-thirds of both houses of Congress call for it, or unless a national convention is assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the states. And that will not happen unless and until a clear and decided majority of the people stand up to be counted and demand that a Constitutional Convention be held, and also demand that The 21st Century Declaration of Independence be used as action items for a Convention agenda.

    If a clear and convincing majority of the American people take action and register their demands through citizens initiatives, petitions, demonstrations and all the other ways and avenues we have to make our demands known, politicians in Congress and in state legislatures will be put on notice. And as I've said, office-holding politicians do what is politically expedient.

    Of course, this idea goes against the traditional ways of gaining political power. But the traditional ways are all about individuals and their partisan political parties gaining political power, whereas this idea is not about any individual or any party. It is about the people, and it is especially about liberating and empowering the people.

    The catch is that it depends on the people, and it depends on the people getting the message.

    .

    Guy, again please study history; unless there is a huge movement as you said, nothing will happen. Due to the "capitalistic" structure, which was not foreseen when they wrote the Constitution, things have changed; it is no longer a "document" what rules, but it is the "money" what rules. Look at the present elections; my guess if you add it all together more than a billion dollars will be spent just to elect one person, who in turn has to "dance" the way the 1% wants. Thus any such Convention will end up useless, because no one of the 1% will attend, unless they can get some more money out of it for them.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Dutch,

    Well, you're right about one thing. "Unless there is a huge movement as [I] said, nothing will happen." That's my point.