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In America War Crimes are called mistakes,

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  • Democrat
    Julian, CA
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    America's Orwellian World and its bubblebrained babblers are busy as ever suggesting that a War Crime is just a mistake.

    One makes mistakes on tests, when they forget to fill the tank or when balancing their budgets but when one is involved in a conspiracy of lies so they can attack another country then this is not a mistake and all those involved and that includes those who vote to fund such wars of aggression for years are guilty of war crimes.

  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    I do worry how history is going to judge what America has done in the world fifty or so years from now. The Bush Administration opted for a war of choice, with no international backing outside of Britain, and proceeded to usher in the cluster fuck that is the modern day Middle-East.

    However, bringing war crimes charges against Bush and others in his Administration is next to impossible. War crimes isn't a catchall term that can be thrown against anyone we disagree with. There is a specific definition that is accepted by the International Criminal Court, which the United States is not a party to. So there is no avenue to bring about charges even if Bush or anyone else did commit war crimes.

    President's Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama have not submitted a request for the Senate to ratify the Rome Statute, which created the modern day ICC. Up and until the Senate ratifies the Rome Statue then no one in America can ever be tried for war crimes in the international arena; they can only be charged in a military tribunal or in our extremely flawed criminal justice system.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    I do worry how history is going to judge what America has done in the world fifty or so years from now. The Bush Administration opted for a war of choice, with no international backing outside of Britain, and proceeded to usher in the cluster fuck that is the modern day Middle-East.

    However, bringing war crimes charges against Bush and others in his Administration is next to impossible. War crimes isn't a catchall term that can be thrown against anyone we disagree with. There is a specific definition that is accepted by the International Criminal Court, which the United States is not a party to. So there is no avenue to bring about charges even if Bush or anyone else did commit war crimes.

    President's Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama have not submitted a request for the Senate to ratify the Rome Statute, which created the modern day ICC. Up and until the Senate ratifies the Rome Statue then no one in America can ever be tried for war crimes in the international arena; they can only be charged in a military tribunal or in our extremely flawed criminal justice system.

    Jared absolutely correct; this is the good old USA; we grab only the poor little man who can't afford an $350 p/hr lawyer with his $10.- p/hr wage. Anyway bringing these guys to justice won't help much; the damage has been done; the "trillions" lost and 8000 plus military killed, you don't get back either.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Dutch Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    I do worry how history is going to judge what America has done in the world fifty or so years from now. The Bush Administration opted for a war of choice, with no international backing outside of Britain, and proceeded to usher in the cluster fuck that is the modern day Middle-East.

    However, bringing war crimes charges against Bush and others in his Administration is next to impossible. War crimes isn't a catchall term that can be thrown against anyone we disagree with. There is a specific definition that is accepted by the International Criminal Court, which the United States is not a party to. So there is no avenue to bring about charges even if Bush or anyone else did commit war crimes.

    President's Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama have not submitted a request for the Senate to ratify the Rome Statute, which created the modern day ICC. Up and until the Senate ratifies the Rome Statue then no one in America can ever be tried for war crimes in the international arena; they can only be charged in a military tribunal or in our extremely flawed criminal justice system.

    Jared absolutely correct; this is the good old USA; we grab only the poor little man who can't afford an $350 p/hr lawyer with his $10.- p/hr wage. Anyway bringing these guys to justice won't help much; the damage has been done; the "trillions" lost and 8000 plus military killed, you don't get back either.
    Right now the US is spending fortunes in fighting ISIS; just saw how many drones and equipment is being sent there; billions and billions of our tax money. I keep saying; the more we "hammer" them the more revenge will come eventually. But our military is deaf and dumb they will never learn that the world is not theirs to occupy nor any of their business and should stop with the "meddling" of the US into any foreign country affairs. Even if they flatten all of Iraq and Syria; who ever is left will never forget what we did there. There never will be a "winner" just like all our wars since WWII..
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared absolutely correct; this is the good old USA; we grab only the poor little man who can't afford an $350 p/hr lawyer with his $10.- p/hr wage. Anyway bringing these guys to justice won't help much; the damage has been done; the "trillions" lost and 8000 plus military killed, you don't get back either.
    I would love to see the Bush Administration officials who lied us into war to be brought to justice, but it will have to be using the American courts and not the International Criminal Court. I am also not holding my breath that America will ever see a day where the former Administration is brought to justice for taking America to war based off of false pretenses and outright lies.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    The Bush family has old money and many who feel a political debt owed to their political and business families. That's why they won't pay like a common family would pay. They'll walk away without a decent word to the families who paid with their lives lost or their lives wasted with PTSD or serious injuries. The trillions spent........just another detail to be lost in the explanations. Dems will blame repubs for starting the wars.....repubs will blame Obama for managing the wars badly. Who ultimately loses ? We all do.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    TJ Wrote: The trillions spent........just another detail to be lost in the explanations. Dems will blame repubs for starting the wars.....repubs will blame Obama for managing the wars badly. Who ultimately loses ? We all do.
    I agree we all lose, but it's still important for history to remember who made this catastrophic error in the first place. Republicans can try to blame President Obama all they want, but anyone with a working brain knows who took us into this war. Obama never would have had to pull all of our troops out if Bush didn't tell America a lie and send them all there in the first place.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    TJ Wrote: The trillions spent........just another detail to be lost in the explanations. Dems will blame repubs for starting the wars.....repubs will blame Obama for managing the wars badly. Who ultimately loses ? We all do.
    I agree we all lose, but it's still important for history to remember who made this catastrophic error in the first place. Republicans can try to blame President Obama all they want, but anyone with a working brain knows who took us into this war. Obama never would have had to pull all of our troops out if Bush didn't tell America a lie and send them all there in the first place.
    The blame game does not help anyone; but did we learn anything from it????? We refused to learn from from Vietnam etc. and also will refuse to learn from this. The present expenditure in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria shows we still haven't learned anything at all. Shaking my old head.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: The blame game does not help anyone; but did we learn anything from it????? We refused to learn from from Vietnam etc. and also will refuse to learn from this. The present expenditure in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria shows we still haven't learned anything at all. Shaking my old head.

    We did learn something from Vietnam--no more drafts. When one half of one percent of the American people are the only ones fighting in our wars of choice then the American people are able to disassociate from everything. If we really want to see America get out of all of these places we're fighting then we need to begin a drive to reinstitute the draft. I have a feeling a lot of these pro war Republicans will run for the exits as soon as they are forced to go fight in some far off land.

  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: The blame game does not help anyone; but did we learn anything from it????? We refused to learn from from Vietnam etc. and also will refuse to learn from this. The present expenditure in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria shows we still haven't learned anything at all. Shaking my old head.

    We did learn something from Vietnam--no more drafts. When one half of one percent of the American people are the only ones fighting in our wars of choice then the American people are able to disassociate from everything. If we really want to see America get out of all of these places we're fighting then we need to begin a drive to reinstitute the draft. I have a feeling a lot of these pro war Republicans will run for the exits as soon as they are forced to go fight in some far off land.

    Jared; draft or no draft; war is war and cost lives and lots of money. I think it is more important to try to concentrate on our own at home mess, then to tell others on how to run their countries via drones or bombs. Of course the "warmongers" will say we don't need too many "foot" soldiers, because we use the drones and air power to strike. Others tried to rule the world and failed miserably; I guess the percentage of people around the world who hate our guts grows by the day. Russia and China are somehow glad we are doing such so they stay out of the limelight and can continue to grow their influence on the world stage.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared; draft or no draft; war is war and cost lives and lots of money. I think it is more important to try to concentrate on our own at home mess, then to tell others on how to run their countries via drones or bombs. Of course the "warmongers" will say we don't need too many "foot" soldiers, because we use the drones and air power to strike. Others tried to rule the world and failed miserably; I guess the percentage of people around the world who hate our guts grows by the day. Russia and China are somehow glad we are doing such so they stay out of the limelight and can continue to grow their influence on the world stage.
    We both want the same thing, which is to get America out of foreign wars for choice. I was only suggesting the draft because that's the only thing, at least in my opinion, that will get us out of wars. The reason we continue fighting these conflicts in far of lands is because 99 percent of Americans don't participate in them. Our leaders would see how popular these wars of choice really are if they try to force people to fight them.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared; draft or no draft; war is war and cost lives and lots of money. I think it is more important to try to concentrate on our own at home mess, then to tell others on how to run their countries via drones or bombs. Of course the "warmongers" will say we don't need too many "foot" soldiers, because we use the drones and air power to strike. Others tried to rule the world and failed miserably; I guess the percentage of people around the world who hate our guts grows by the day. Russia and China are somehow glad we are doing such so they stay out of the limelight and can continue to grow their influence on the world stage.
    We both want the same thing, which is to get America out of foreign wars for choice. I was only suggesting the draft because that's the only thing, at least in my opinion, that will get us out of wars. The reason we continue fighting these conflicts in far of lands is because 99 percent of Americans don't participate in them. Our leaders would see how popular these wars of choice really are if they try to force people to fight them.
    Jared, of course you are right. What I'm trying to say is that because of our drones, missiles, airpower etc. our wars become no longer a Napoleon like "ground" war; thus needs much less "foot" soldiers/marines etc. and fewer dead /maimed soldiers; which cost fortunes when they come back. Also our war industry does not care "draft" or "no draft"; they "earn" the same. It is our foreign policies which stink as well the fantastic recommendations our 999 generals make. As I said many times ; this country is run by the Pentagon, and its supporters, not the White House.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared, of course you are right. What I'm trying to say is that because of our drones, missiles, airpower etc. our wars become no longer a Napoleon like "ground" war; thus needs much less "foot" soldiers/marines etc. and fewer dead /maimed soldiers; which cost fortunes when they come back. Also our war industry does not care "draft" or "no draft"; they "earn" the same. It is our foreign policies which stink as well the fantastic recommendations our 999 generals make. As I said many times ; this country is run by the Pentagon, and its supporters, not the White House.
    I wish I could disagree with you, but I can not. The only thing I may disagree with you on is that I believe the vast majority of our top generals abhor war because they are the ones our politicians send to go fight them and they have a first hand account of what war is really like.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared, of course you are right. What I'm trying to say is that because of our drones, missiles, airpower etc. our wars become no longer a Napoleon like "ground" war; thus needs much less "foot" soldiers/marines etc. and fewer dead /maimed soldiers; which cost fortunes when they come back. Also our war industry does not care "draft" or "no draft"; they "earn" the same. It is our foreign policies which stink as well the fantastic recommendations our 999 generals make. As I said many times ; this country is run by the Pentagon, and its supporters, not the White House.
    I wish I could disagree with you, but I can not. The only thing I may disagree with you on is that I believe the vast majority of our top generals abhor war because they are the ones our politicians send to go fight them and they have a first hand account of what war is really like.
    Jared, your last line is not quite right; our generals ( and we have plenty of them) seldom get shot or shot at; they sit in their comfortable armchairs with a cigar and watch things from a distance; it is just a job without feelings, like slaughtering cows, you get used to it, as long they get what they want.
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    The worst thing in the world, is to have a DRAFT, and take young men in their prime, & send them off to some foreign slaughterhouse. Without a choice. It is so inhuman, there are no words for it. Just to imagine the Viet Nam War, where thousands of young men a day were sacrificed in a bloody battle, far away from home & family. No choice in the matter, they had to give up college, or marriage, or whatever they had planned. Next thing they are in a foreign land where they do not speak the language, & surrounded by thousands of people who only want to KILL them. NO WAY OUT, but just trying to cling to life, just try to eat & drink with foul water & little food. Snipers in the trees, & natives crawling around in tunnels underneath the ground, while young girls in straw hats carry a gun beneath their skirts & will shoot you in the back, as you pass them. Mold & mildew everywhere, on your uniform & supplies. Horrible water to drink, so most guys just had beer or whatever else they could find. Often a GI would get a chance to call home, only to find out his "girlfriend" had started going out with civilian men. And their friends back in the states, were busy having fun, going to games, & seeing their families. And had absolutely NO knowledge of what our kid soldiers were going through. (Sadly, some deaths on the battlefield were "suicide"). And some had sustained "injuries" that had no cure, & were crippled & maimed for life.

    So I think that a DRAFT being used to increase Troop Strength, should be ILLEGAL, and Forbidden ever again, in the United States of America.