Forum Thread

Fuel Mileage

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    Zach F Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Zach F Wrote:
    MrDuramax Wrote: Concerning topic to me, I found out that by 2025 all motor vehicle manufactures have make there vehicles get 54.5 MPG which i think is terrible, it would be death to the super car and muscle car... The v8 would be very rare, Most vehicles will probably have v6's or I4's. I mean i love the sound of a V8 rumbling but why does the goverment have to strictin up on automotive companys?
    Because the air and environment are public goods. You can't just pump wreckless amounts of CO2 into the air unrestricted. The burning of fossil fuels is the main contributor to climate change and is dramatically shifting our environment.

    You don't find it the least bit ridiculous that you willing to make life worse for others and future generations just so you can have a little fun? Think about the bigger the picture.
    Zach; pls read what I wrote; it does not make any difference; 6000 aircraft per hour above your head; plenty of military equipment which spew; railroads; dumptrucks; school buses; lawnmowers; motorcycles; boats; factories; buildings; barbecue's; crematorium's; landfill fires; other fires; power plants; smokers; manufacturing processes etc. all create polution.
    Anything humans do even your exhaust breath creates polution. the more people on this tiny globe then polution in the air and everywhere is here to stay.
    It does make difference. We need to stop using fossil fuels altogether because it is completely unsustainable and destroying the environment on which we need to survive. It is completely unreasonable to transition immediately so the transition needs to be gradual. Motor vehicles are clearly a good starting point. Factories and high carbon industries are another.

    Just throwing your hands up and saying "it doesn't make difference" is not only wrong, it is 100% irresponsible, lazy, short-sighted and idiotic.
    Zach, no I'm not lazy you should know that by now; I think the military/navy/airforce which flattens whole towns and uses more fuel than commercial airlines should start with any such program; but I bet they will keep on poluting regardless; how about "nuclear" ask Japan how great that is. No the change should start with infrastructure and especially public transportation; then you get less cars on the road and less planes in the sky. Why is there less air polution in the Netherlands/ France etc. because of infrastructure; kids go on a bicycle to school; no school buses; rapid transport everywhere; trucks and a lot of cars use LPG or "clean" diesel. Kids start driving when they are 18, but most of them stick with scooters or bikes. My daughter there does not even has a car; too much trouble to park or maintain the strict emmision standards ( APK test) No the most polution and killing is done by our warmonger government. So suggest to start there. Your last statement is pure naive.
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    As I was driving through town this morning I noticed all the beer cans and pizza boxes on the street from last nights college party's. Then, it occurred to me - why not throw all those empty Hieni cans out that have been rolling around on my van floor all week? After all it would be better to do that and not take the risk of having the local or university cops stop me for a tail light out and then get tazered and shot when they found the empty cans! Oh, I forgot, I'm an old white guy, cops don't do that to us, we do that to those people lower on the social scale than we are plus, if I did throw them out the window they would land on someone's lawn or driveway and, after all, the town does pick up trash every week from everyone's driveway so what's the difference - a few cans in the trash can or a few on the lawn? They all end up at the dump eventually.

    Now, I think I'll just start cruising around town all day long, wasting gas, checking out the young coeds - just don't tell my wife - I said I was doing an environmental survey.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote:
    Zach F Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    Zach F Wrote:
    MrDuramax Wrote: Concerning topic to me, I found out that by 2025 all motor vehicle manufactures have make there vehicles get 54.5 MPG which i think is terrible, it would be death to the super car and muscle car... The v8 would be very rare, Most vehicles will probably have v6's or I4's. I mean i love the sound of a V8 rumbling but why does the goverment have to strictin up on automotive companys?
    Because the air and environment are public goods. You can't just pump wreckless amounts of CO2 into the air unrestricted. The burning of fossil fuels is the main contributor to climate change and is dramatically shifting our environment.

    You don't find it the least bit ridiculous that you willing to make life worse for others and future generations just so you can have a little fun? Think about the bigger the picture.
    Zach; pls read what I wrote; it does not make any difference; 6000 aircraft per hour above your head; plenty of military equipment which spew; railroads; dumptrucks; school buses; lawnmowers; motorcycles; boats; factories; buildings; barbecue's; crematorium's; landfill fires; other fires; power plants; smokers; manufacturing processes etc. all create polution.
    Anything humans do even your exhaust breath creates polution. the more people on this tiny globe then polution in the air and everywhere is here to stay.
    It does make difference. We need to stop using fossil fuels altogether because it is completely unsustainable and destroying the environment on which we need to survive. It is completely unreasonable to transition immediately so the transition needs to be gradual. Motor vehicles are clearly a good starting point. Factories and high carbon industries are another.

    Just throwing your hands up and saying "it doesn't make difference" is not only wrong, it is 100% irresponsible, lazy, short-sighted and idiotic.
    Zach, no I'm not lazy you should know that by now; I think the military/navy/airforce which flattens whole towns and uses more fuel than commercial airlines should start with any such program; but I bet they will keep on poluting regardless; how about "nuclear" ask Japan how great that is. No the change should start with infrastructure and especially public transportation; then you get less cars on the road and less planes in the sky. Why is there less air polution in the Netherlands/ France etc. because of infrastructure; kids go on a bicycle to school; no school buses; rapid transport everywhere; trucks and a lot of cars use LPG or "clean" diesel. Kids start driving when they are 18, but most of them stick with scooters or bikes. My daughter there does not even has a car; too much trouble to park or maintain the strict emmision standards ( APK test) No the most polution and killing is done by our warmonger government. So suggest to start there. Your last statement is pure naive.
    I didn't say you were lazy, I said it was a lazy way of thinking.

    Also, nuclear energy is FAR cleaner than fossil fuels. It is safer and it provides much, much more power than coal and oil.

    And we are at a time where every little bit of reduction helps. The biggest contributor to the problem is the energy sector. That is slowly being transferred over to cleaner energy such as wind, solar and nuclear.

    Solid public transportation is another great solution that is being implemented is many cities.

    I'm also very much for the U.S. having a much smaller military. But most of the pollution is NOT coming from the military. Not even close. Energy, industry, land-use/deforestation, transportation, commerical, and residential all rank higher on the pollution list.

    But this thread isn't about any of these topics. It is about the 2025 MPG issue. Which is still a good idea because it is a solid step towards a solution to the climate change issue.
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    Zach; I don't want to be negative; but I'll talk hopefully around that time with you and believe all polution will be only bigger by that time, not less. Why? because every year we and other industrialized countries produce more and more to satisfy demand. I want a nicer car; I want a nicer kitchen; a better lawnmower more computers; a bigger TV. etc. So you can reduce it on one side but increase it again on the other side; result "zero" Also the world population expands thus more and more cars on the road if nothing is done on infrastructure. End of story. You want to bet?
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    Dutch Wrote: Zach; I don't want to be negative; but I'll talk hopefully around that time with you and believe all polution will be only bigger by that time, not less. Why? because every year we and other industrialized countries produce more and more to satisfy demand. I want a nicer car; I want a nicer kitchen; a better lawnmower more computers; a bigger TV. etc. So you can reduce it on one side but increase it again on the other side; result "zero" Also the world population expands thus more and more cars on the road if nothing is done on infrastructure. End of story. You want to bet?
    Yes pollution will continue to be a growing problem and it is a problem that needs to be addressed and worked at over time. Curbing car emissions is undeniably a good thing to do.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Zach F Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Zach; I don't want to be negative; but I'll talk hopefully around that time with you and believe all polution will be only bigger by that time, not less. Why? because every year we and other industrialized countries produce more and more to satisfy demand. I want a nicer car; I want a nicer kitchen; a better lawnmower more computers; a bigger TV. etc. So you can reduce it on one side but increase it again on the other side; result "zero" Also the world population expands thus more and more cars on the road if nothing is done on infrastructure. End of story. You want to bet?
    Yes pollution will continue to be a growing problem and it is a problem that needs to be addressed and worked at over time. Curbing car emissions is undeniably a good thing to do.
    Sure Zach, I agree doing something is better than doing nothing; however I stick with my statement that the results will be worse; just look at the statistics of now many more cars are sold all over the world and more older cars stay on the road because of improved quality. Tesla or hybrids do not make any dent in the total overall picture over time. Do not forget other industrialized countries with lower standards than us..