Forum Thread

The flooding of Europe by refuge's

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  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    At present the flood of refuge's trying to enter western Europe is getting out of hand; just an old ship with 700 plus migrants sunk. In the EU there are discussions on how to stop this tidal wave.
    As always there is a cause and effect; people in N-Africa are lured by scrupulous "greedy" transporters that for a "fee" which they sometimes also can pay later once they are in a "social" environment where they get Government money and a "roof" above their heads, pay then or get killed. Things at present are unbelievable considering the total mess in the middle east and Africa. While the US actually "pushed" for reforms and their actions and wars, they are absorbing only minimum of these refuge's. While thousands are invading Europe, only about 185 were accepted here as I was told. What is wrong with this picture? Also millions are in camps in Jordania, Turkey etc. Our need to get rid of Kadafhi created a new mess; let alone in Mali, Somalia etc. which people also found means to flood Europe. This thing is getting to be such a serious issue and will impact Europe in a huge way; most of these people do not fit into those countries since they have very little skills or education, as well are very poor with lots of kids who want food. medical etc. Indeed a terrible situation. The US likely will take their hands of this issue and shove it into the hands of the UN. Again this shows the hypocrites we are; we create the mess; let others clean it up. Go to church and "god" will take care of it.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Charlotte, NC
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    This is one of those issues that will be swept under the rug for...ever? At least here in the U.S. I am not one to play politics on this level of population economics. Out of curiosity, what would be your direction if you were leading the fix? What would you do?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    ClayTaylorNC Wrote: This is one of those issues that will be swept under the rug for...ever? At least here in the U.S. I am not one to play politics on this level of population economics. Out of curiosity, what would be your direction if you were leading the fix? What would you do?
    A possible fix would be if the US/Europe would use its resources to find the culprits who buy/own these ships and sentence these for human trafficking etc. At present my guess is because a lot of money and resources is used in these operations, so there must be enough things to trace who's behind it etc. Also since the EU came into being; an open border policy should immediately be changed.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: At present the flood of refuge's trying to enter western Europe is getting out of hand; just an old ship with 700 plus migrants sunk. In the EU there are discussions on how to stop this tidal wave.
    As always there is a cause and effect; people in N-Africa are lured by scrupulous "greedy" transporters that for a "fee" which they sometimes also can pay later once they are in a "social" environment where they get Government money and a "roof" above their heads, pay then or get killed. Things at present are unbelievable considering the total mess in the middle east and Africa. While the US actually "pushed" for reforms and their actions and wars, they are absorbing only minimum of these refuge's. While thousands are invading Europe, only about 185 were accepted here as I was told. What is wrong with this picture? Also millions are in camps in Jordania, Turkey etc. Our need to get rid of Kadafhi created a new mess; let alone in Mali, Somalia etc. which people also found means to flood Europe. This thing is getting to be such a serious issue and will impact Europe in a huge way; most of these people do not fit into those countries since they have very little skills or education, as well are very poor with lots of kids who want food. medical etc. Indeed a terrible situation. The US likely will take their hands of this issue and shove it into the hands of the UN. Again this shows the hypocrites we are; we create the mess; let others clean it up. Go to church and "god" will take care of it.
    The law of unintended consequences is rearing its ugly head. Much of this can be traced back to the 2003 Iraqi invasion and the Bush Administrations total incompetence and lack of a plan to rebuild Iraq after destroying it. The war in Iraq forced the mass migration of millions of Iraqi's, which in turn caused instability in countries throughout the entire region.

    I would push back against your claim that thousands are 'invading' Europe. The term invasion connotes a military exercise, which is not what is happening. What's happening in Europe is refugees are risking life and limb to flee their war torn countries. Mass migrations are commonplace during wars and this time is no different. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    We also must divorce what's going on in Libya with what's going on in Iraq, Syria, and the greater Middle-East. And we can't conflate what's going on in Somalia and Yemen with what's going on in Pakistan and India. There are multiple regional and single state conflicts and each of them have their own unique challenges.

    While the flux of Libyan refugees trying to flee to Europe garners the most attention, the truth is that the vast majority of these refugees are actually fleeing to neighboring countries. Tunisia has upwards of one million Libyan refugees within its borders, while Egypt currently has more than 500,000. Those numbers dwarf the numbers of refugees who are attempting to flee to Europe.

    I do agree that the number of refugees the United States has agreed to take in is shameful and against what we stand for as a country, but I don't think that has anything to do with the influx of refugees who are attempting to flee to Europe or neighboring countries. A simple look at a map shows that it's much easier for Libyan refugees to cross the Mediterranean Sea than trek through Algeria and Morocco and then board a boat to cross the Atlantic Ocean. It's a lot more complex than just saying that everything is America's fault and the world would be a better place if we only accepted more refugees.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: At present the flood of refuge's trying to enter western Europe is getting out of hand; just an old ship with 700 plus migrants sunk. In the EU there are discussions on how to stop this tidal wave.
    As always there is a cause and effect; people in N-Africa are lured by scrupulous "greedy" transporters that for a "fee" which they sometimes also can pay later once they are in a "social" environment where they get Government money and a "roof" above their heads, pay then or get killed. Things at present are unbelievable considering the total mess in the middle east and Africa. While the US actually "pushed" for reforms and their actions and wars, they are absorbing only minimum of these refuge's. While thousands are invading Europe, only about 185 were accepted here as I was told. What is wrong with this picture? Also millions are in camps in Jordania, Turkey etc. Our need to get rid of Kadafhi created a new mess; let alone in Mali, Somalia etc. which people also found means to flood Europe. This thing is getting to be such a serious issue and will impact Europe in a huge way; most of these people do not fit into those countries since they have very little skills or education, as well are very poor with lots of kids who want food. medical etc. Indeed a terrible situation. The US likely will take their hands of this issue and shove it into the hands of the UN. Again this shows the hypocrites we are; we create the mess; let others clean it up. Go to church and "god" will take care of it.
    The law of unintended consequences is rearing its ugly head. Much of this can be traced back to the 2003 Iraqi invasion and the Bush Administrations total incompetence and lack of a plan to rebuild Iraq after destroying it. The war in Iraq forced the mass migration of millions of Iraqi's, which in turn caused instability in countries throughout the entire region.

    I would push back against your claim that thousands are 'invading' Europe. The term invasion connotes a military exercise, which is not what is happening. What's happening in Europe is refugees are risking life and limb to flee their war torn countries. Mass migrations are commonplace during wars and this time is no different. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    We also must divorce what's going on in Libya with what's going on in Iraq, Syria, and the greater Middle-East. And we can't conflate what's going on in Somalia and Yemen with what's going on in Pakistan and India. There are multiple regional and single state conflicts and each of them have their own unique challenges.

    While the flux of Libyan refugees trying to flee to Europe garners the most attention, the truth is that the vast majority of these refugees are actually fleeing to neighboring countries. Tunisia has upwards of one million Libyan refugees within its borders, while Egypt currently has more than 500,000. Those numbers dwarf the numbers of refugees who are attempting to flee to Europe.

    I do agree that the number of refugees the United States has agreed to take in is shameful and against what we stand for as a country, but I don't think that has anything to do with the influx of refugees who are attempting to flee to Europe or neighboring countries. A simple look at a map shows that it's much easier for Libyan refugees to cross the Mediterranean Sea than trek through Algeria and Morocco and then board a boat to cross the Atlantic Ocean. It's a lot more complex than just saying that everything is America's fault and the world would be a better place if we only accepted more refugees.
    Jared; I agree on most part; however the inlux is having its effect on the economy in Europe, which also will affect the US. At present the Euro is just about the same as the dollar so that is already hampering export. Don't forget Greece either. The refuge problem will only make that worse. Sorry; all the countries I mentioned are on these "junk" boats; plenty of Somaliers; Sudanese; Etheopian; Yemenese; you name it
    Here a picture of satire about the "boat" people with all the "leaders" ( Merkel etc) in the "boat" by this problem
    11169875_101529...679706039_n.jpg
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: Jared; I agree on most part; however the inlux is having its effect on the economy in Europe, which also will affect the US. At present the Euro is just about the same as the dollar so that is already hampering export. Don't forget Greece either. The refuge problem will only make that worse. Sorry; all the countries I mentioned are on these "junk" boats; plenty of Somaliers; Sudanese; Etheopian; Yemenese; you name it
    Here a picture of satire about the "boat" people with all the "leaders" ( Merkel etc) in the "boat" by this problem
    11169875_101529...679706039_n.jpg
    Oh, I have absolutely no doubt that the influx of refugees poses serious challenges to much of Europe and eventually the rest of the Western world. The inability of the world to come together and figure out a way to negotiate peace between warring factions in Libya is a real travesty and is only going to exasperate the refugee crisis.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Jared; I agree on most part; however the inlux is having its effect on the economy in Europe, which also will affect the US. At present the Euro is just about the same as the dollar so that is already hampering export. Don't forget Greece either. The refuge problem will only make that worse. Sorry; all the countries I mentioned are on these "junk" boats; plenty of Somaliers; Sudanese; Etheopian; Yemenese; you name it
    Here a picture of satire about the "boat" people with all the "leaders" ( Merkel etc) in the "boat" by this problem
    11169875_101529...679706039_n.jpg
    Oh, I have absolutely no doubt that the influx of refugees poses serious challenges to much of Europe and eventually the rest of the Western world. The inability of the world to come together and figure out a way to negotiate peace between warring factions in Libya is a real travesty and is only going to exasperate the refugee crisis.
    Jared; it is not only Libya; just about any "war" zone; it is impossible also in the future to maintain the refuge camps all over the place; the UN tries but the resources are limited for such a huge carastrophe, which will only grows bigger by the day. This just the beginning. Our bombs, will create only more refuge's not less. Flattening whole cities in order to get it our way will only backfire and create more and more refuge's who have no place to go. Our policies "stink" because we do not think any farther than our wallet for the war industry. Sorry this will expand to a huge disaster; bigger then the world has ever known.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    You get no argument from me that the world is woefully unprepared to tackle this current problem, but I will push back a bit about this being the worst disaster the world has ever seen. I think that's a bit hyperbolic.

    Just take a look at the 20th Century--

    World War II claimed 60 million people and the world population was only at 2 billion. If we were to compare that to today's population of 7.1 billion then we would wind up witnessing well over 180 million people perish. I highly doubt we are on the verge of something on that scale.

    World War I claimed 37 million people and the world population was only at 1.8 billion.

    And don't even get me started on the 1918 influenza. Nearly 100 million people perished during that pandemic.

    We have been through tough times in this world before and yet we have always pulled through. And by 'we' I mean the world. I have no doubt that we will pull through this current crisis in the Middle-East and Northern Africa, but it will take some hard work among all of the worlds nations.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote: You get no argument from me that the world is woefully unprepared to tackle this current problem, but I will push back a bit about this being the worst disaster the world has ever seen. I think that's a bit hyperbolic.

    Just take a look at the 20th Century--

    World War II claimed 60 million people and the world population was only at 2 billion. If we were to compare that to today's population of 7.1 billion then we would wind up witnessing well over 180 million people perish. I highly doubt we are on the verge of something on that scale.

    World War I claimed 37 million people and the world population was only at 1.8 billion.

    And don't even get me started on the 1918 influenza. Nearly 100 million people perished during that pandemic.

    We have been through tough times in this world before and yet we have always pulled through. And by 'we' I mean the world. I have no doubt that we will pull through this current crisis in the Middle-East and Northern Africa, but it will take some hard work among all of the worlds nations.
    Sure Jared, I agree with you; but I was talking about a "refuge" problem not about people killed by wars or diseases.