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NYT: Obama and the Iran Doctrine

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    This piece by Chomsky is even more relevant.

    salon.com/2015/08/21/noam_chomsky_ameri...

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    pr Wrote:

    This piece by Chomsky is even more relevant.

    salon.com/2015/08/21/noam_chomsky_ameri...

    Excellent piece; yes the middle east mess is totally created by us. Starting already in 1948 when Israel was set up. It never was without turmoil ever since. Indeed the whole middle east should be "nuke" free, including Israel. It is so stupid to give that country nukes while they always were the eye sore in the middle of Muslim countries surrounding them, because that land was taken from the Palestine people, who are the original occupants..

    After WWII they should have repatriated the Jews to their country of origin (birth place) instead of "creating" a country for them. But right now the mess is here to stay because of our unwillingness to look at the middle east through their eyes, we know everything better. Indeed our foreign policies are the worst in the world.

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    Pr and Dutch -- Yes excellent article. I get so tired of the way our elected leaders pander to Israel like it's a 51st state. It's actually worse, we treat Israel like the Muslims treat Mecca as a sacred holy shrine. An obligatory all expenses paid week long "Haj visit" to Israel is in order for all new freshman Senators and Representatives to be indoctrinated in all the latest and greatest Israeli propaganda. Is there any member of Congress who has not made the "Haj trip" to Israel? Many cite that trip as their "foreign experience". Ha!

    Am I being too cynical?

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Pr and Dutch -- Yes excellent article. I get so tired of the way our elected leaders pander to Israel like it's a 51st state. It's actually worse, we treat Israel like the Muslims treat Mecca as a sacred holy shrine. An obligatory all expenses paid week long "Haj visit" to Israel is in order for all new freshman Senators and Representatives to be indoctrinated in all the latest and greatest Israeli propaganda. Is there any member of Congress who has not made the "Haj trip" to Israel? Many cite that trip as their "foreign experience". Ha!

    Am I being too cynical?

    No Schmidt you're not cynical, you're right on. In such a touchy area as the middle east you can't afford preferences. As soon as religion gets into the picture then everything goes wrong. In a country like the US, which claims separation between church and state, then that should also apply to our foreign policies
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    It's all over, folks. Sen. Barbara Mikulski became the 34 Senator to come out in favor of the Iran deal, which guarantees there are enough votes to uphold a promised Presidential veto if Congress initially votes to disapprove it.

    Our next goal should be to pressure the remaining Democrats who haven't stated how they will vote to fall in line and filibuster the disapproval vote, which would keep the President from having to veto anything in the first place. If 41 of the 45 Senate Democrats filibuster the vote of disapproval then the agreement will become law without the President needing to do anything at all. If we can't get 41 Democrats to come out in favor of the Iran deal then President Obama will be forced to veto the measure, but it won't matter much because he now has the votes necessary to uphold his veto.

    I know it sounds a little confusing, but in short--this deal is going to pass. The age of cowboy diplomacy is over and America working with its international partners to come to a diplomatic agreement on the Iranian nuclear issue has succeeded.

    Reuters Article: U.S. Senator Mikulski gives Obama key vote to protect Iran nuclear deal

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:

    It's all over, folks. Sen. Barbara Mikulski became the 34 Senator to come out in favor of the Iran deal, which guarantees there are enough votes to uphold a promised Presidential veto if Congress initially votes to disapprove it.

    Our next goal should be to pressure the remaining Democrats who haven't stated how they will vote to fall in line and filibuster the disapproval vote, which would keep the President from having to veto anything in the first place. If 41 of the 45 Senate Democrats filibuster the vote of disapproval then the agreement will become law without the President needing to do anything at all. If we can't get 41 Democrats to come out in favor of the Iran deal then President Obama will be forced to veto the measure, but it won't matter much because he now has the votes necessary to uphold his veto.

    I know it sounds a little confusing, but in short--this deal is going to pass. The age of cowboy diplomacy is over and America working with its international partners to come to a diplomatic agreement on the Iranian nuclear issue has succeeded.

    Reuters Article: U.S. Senator Mikulski gives Obama key vote to protect Iran nuclear deal

    How right you are Jared, ANY Democratic Senator who votes in accordance with the Republican disapproval should be called on the carpet and have their 2016 re-elections put at risk for siding with the Republicans. I'm sure their respective Republican opponents in 2016 will be touting this fact as well, so let them get what they deserve.
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    That's good news. What's hard to understand is the near unanimous Republican perspective that if this agreement is sooo bad, it is basically the "end of the world" or as Huckabee says, "take the Israelis and basically march them to the door of the oven." Every word they utter is full of fear with predictions of catastrophe for Israel and America...but nothing to back it up. It's sickening that the party has stooped so low, but more worrisome that so many people are sucked in by the lies.
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    And therein lies the power of religion and exposes the hiporcacy of it.
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    pr Wrote: And therein lies the power of religion and exposes the hiporcacy of it.

    P.R. don't worry they are on a path of self destruction; religions come and go. However in this country it is the tax free money which keeps it going. About Iran, I guess it is a wait and see issue; the middle east has been in turmoil since Hitler and we messed with it , so that will continue as usual for quite while. But anyway we should buy Huckabee a ticket to Israel ; good riddance.

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    The Middle East has been in turmoil for millennia. Empires, kingdoms, tribes have all sought land for self-aggrandizement, response to social pressure, ego or just because they like war and conquest. The west and the u.s. are simply the latest in a long line. None of this should be surprising.
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    Huffington Post, September 8, 2015: 41 Democrats Back Iran Deal

    "WASHINGTON -- In the face of two months of fierce campaigning by opponents of the Iran nuclear deal, 41 Democrats have said publicly they will nevertheless support it. The tally gives President Barack Obama enough backing to stop a GOP effort to undo the deal in the Senate, without needing to exercise a veto, if all of those backers support a filibuster.

    "The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the pro-Israel lobby group, spent millions on television ads and face-to-face pressure on Capitol Hill, yet lost by a far greater margin than had been expected. J Street, a progressive pro-Israel group, and the National Iranian American Council led the effort to rally lawmakers in support of the nuclear deal, but with comparatively miniscule budgets -- outside of the Democratic Party apparatus, there was nowhere near the same organized campaign to support the deal."

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    This is great news. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Suck on that Bibi."?

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Huffington Post, September 8, 2015: 41 Democrats Back Iran Deal

    "WASHINGTON -- In the face of two months of fierce campaigning by opponents of the Iran nuclear deal, 41 Democrats have said publicly they will nevertheless support it. The tally gives President Barack Obama enough backing to stop a GOP effort to undo the deal in the Senate, without needing to exercise a veto, if all of those backers support a filibuster.

    "The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the pro-Israel lobby group, spent millions on television ads and face-to-face pressure on Capitol Hill, yet lost by a far greater margin than had been expected. J Street, a progressive pro-Israel group, and the National Iranian American Council led the effort to rally lawmakers in support of the nuclear deal, but with comparatively miniscule budgets -- outside of the Democratic Party apparatus, there was nowhere near the same organized campaign to support the deal."

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    This is great news. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Suck on that Bibi."?

    I certainly hope so. Like I mentioned in an other thread: Trump and Cruz are holding a big demonstration in DC this week to undo this agreement. I guess this to get the evangelicals on his side; so that is the sole purpose.
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    Finally, Hillary opened her mouth and talked about the Iran deal; which was very appropriate and correctly explained. I hope it gives her a needed boost.
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    Schmidt Wrote: This is great news. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Suck on that Bibi."?

    Yes, it surely is.

    I am ecstatic that reason and diplomacy is going to win out over war and isolation on the world stage. I am baffled Republicans haven't learned by now that Americans are tired of fighting wars of choice, but apparently they haven't.

    The Republican position on this debate baffles me. They claim they don't want war, but refuse to say what the alternative to this deal should be. This wasn't a bilateral agreement between the United States and Iran; it was an agreement hammered out between six world powers (two of whom are, while not exactly America's enemies, not necessarily America's friends either).

    I wish the Republican Party would come out and admit they want war. Hiding behind the notion that we can somehow get the world powers back to the negotiating table and hammer out a better deal is a lie and these idiots need to be called out for it.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote: This is great news. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Suck on that Bibi."?

    Yes, it surely is.

    I am ecstatic that reason and diplomacy is going to win out over war and isolation on the world stage. I am baffled Republicans haven't learned by now that Americans are tired of fighting wars of choice, but apparently they haven't.

    The Republican position on this debate baffles me. They claim they don't want war, but refuse to say what the alternative to this deal should be. This wasn't a bilateral agreement between the United States and Iran; it was an agreement hammered out between six world powers (two of whom are, while not exactly America's enemies, not necessarily America's friends either).

    I wish the Republican Party would come out and admit they want war. Hiding behind the notion that we can somehow get the world powers back to the negotiating table and hammer out a better deal is a lie and these idiots need to be called out for it.

    Jared absolutely correct; don't we have wars enough already; throwing bombs on Syria creates only more refugees in Europe and does not solve anything in that region let alone the influence of Iran on all of this. We need a deal with Iran so we can then work together on hopefully a constructive solution for that whole area.