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NYT: Obama and the Iran Doctrine

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    I was in error when I said the notice of inspection was 14 days in advance, it is 24 days in advance , it also contains the lifting of the Arms Embargo down the line, the more I read about this deal the less I like it.
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    johnnycee Wrote: I was in error when I said the notice of inspection was 14 days in advance, it is 24 days in advance , it also contains the lifting of the Arms Embargo down the line, the more I read about this deal the less I like it.

    And no one is surprised that you don't like it. Reading and listening to Republican talking points all day must get exhausting after awhile.

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    I don't think it's bad that we have an agreement. I'm thrilled. I am just skeptical of the details and also skeptical of Iran being a reasonable party to deal with

    I very much like that it was a group. It bothers me that there are countries with current active hate of America......

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    TJ Wrote:

    I don't think it's bad that we have an agreement. I'm thrilled. I am just skeptical of the details and also skeptical of Iran being a reasonable party to deal with

    I very much like that it was a group. It bothers me that there are countries with current active hate of America......

    I just look at international diplomacy this way--if we could negotiate with "The Evil Empire" to bring about a peaceful end to the Cold War then we surely should be able to negotiate with Iran and the six great powers to bring about a peaceful end to the nuclear standoff.

    If Iran cheats then they know what the consequences are for them. If we torpedo this deal then the blame will fall squarely on the United States if war with Iran happens. We will be isolated with no international partners, outside of Isreal, backing us up.

    America can no longer dictate all of our rules to the world and expect them to go along with it. We lost all ability to do that after the Iraq fiasco. We will be all alone if we walk away. I am not willing to give up our reputation on the world stage because the Republican war hawks are clamoring for another war in the Middle East.

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    Vox: Here is the full text of the Iranian Nuclear Agreement:

    You can start reading, but here's one line from the Preamble.

    iii. Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons.

    That statement signed off by Iran is significant.

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    Schmidt Wrote:

    Vox: Here is the full text of the Iranian Nuclear Agreement:

    You can start reading, but here's one line from the Preamble.

    iii. Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons.

    That statement signed off by Iran is significant.

    Schmidt, unbelievable on how all the "clown car'" nutheads jumped and denounced this agreement; they stumbled over each other, stating that they will undo this agreement. It is again as before trying to undermine Obama. Sorry he did absolutely the right thing. It is time Israel gets told that they can't dictate us. It is much better to have Iran as a entity in that area with the present warring parties which then can be better overseen and may be negotiated in a more positive way. People here forget that Iran is an more important country than Israel in that area. We are the nutheads who keep Israel alive by pumping in money and priviledges; it is time that the dependency on us gets reduced.
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: I was in error when I said the notice of inspection was 14 days in advance, it is 24 days in advance , it also contains the lifting of the Arms Embargo down the line, the more I read about this deal the less I like it.

    And no one is surprised that you don't like it. Reading and listening to Republican talking points all day must get exhausting after awhile.

    I still get a lot of my news from the my local print papers The Philadelphia Inquirer and The Daily News both of which are very liberal oriented publications and not to be confused with Republican views at all, so again your wrong in assuming you know my source of where I get my News, but you are correct in saying that I don't like it but for valid reasons , The irrelevant and meaningless inspections, the lifting of the Economic Sanctions , the lifting of the Weapons Embargo, their centrifuges will still continue to operate ,although at a lesser capacity, and all the World gets is Iran's promise to curtail it nuclear ambition, that is what bothers me , no consequence if Iran fails to live up to their promise.
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    Dutch Wrote: Schmidt, unbelievable on how all the "clown car'" nutheads jumped and denounced this agreement; they stumbled over each other, stating that they will undo this agreement. It is again as before trying to undermine Obama. Sorry he did absolutely the right thing. It is time Israel gets told that they can't dictate us. It is much better to have Iran as a entity in that area with the present warring parties which then can be better overseen and may be negotiated in a more positive way. People here forget that Iran is an more important country than Israel in that area. We are the nutheads who keep Israel alive by pumping in money and priviledges; it is time that the dependency on us gets reduced.

    That's because if Obama is for something then the Republicans have to be against it. It doesn't matter what agreement was reached. Iran could have said they will allow Benjamin Netanyahu to personally inspect all of their nuclear sites himself and Republicans and certain "democrats" would say it wasn't good enough. They ignore the fact that they have zero understanding of nuclear technology or international diplomacy. If Obama is for it then they have to be against it.

    What these critics aren't willing to admit is that they want war with Iran. They cherry pick one thing out of a highly technical and complex international agreement and say that is why we should walk away from it. But what they won't offer us is an alternative. That's because they don't have one. They just want to live in the glory days of America being able to dictate to the rest of the world exactly how they should behave.

    If America says we like a country then we call them allies, even if fifteen of their citizens hijacked airplanes and flew them into American buildings. (I'm looking at you, Saudi Arabia.) If America says we don't like a country then we call them enemies, even if the only thing they have ever done to us was take over our Embassy in 1979 and hold some diplomats hostage. (I'm looking at you, Iran.) What they haven't realized, or refuse to accept, is that we can no longer do that. We no longer have the credibility to dictate to the rest of the world how everything should be done.

    What these critics also refuse to accept is that this is an international agreement by all of the major world powers. The definition of negotiation is "discussion aimed at reaching an agreement," not "I tell you exactly what you have to do and you must do it all. If you don't then we will bomb you to oblivion" The Republicans and certain "democrats" seem to have a very elementary understanding of how international diplomacy is actually conducted.

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    Time will prove you wrong , Jared, the neighbors of Iran are not too thrilled about this, many feel that this might spur a nuclear arms race, you might have have to get off the President's lap and just stop agreeing with everything this man does or says, it's not about liking him but what he does for the Nation or involves us in on the Worlds stage,, he will have a tough time selling this to the Congress although Congress will fall short of a veto override,the deal is still a bad one.
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    Jared -- Well said. I agree with you 100 percent. I would add that when we think in terms of military option versus diplomacy, our diplomatic endeavors could often be couched as a form of "gunboat diplomacy". The threat of military action as "all options are on the table" can be construed by some as a threat. I don't know that President Obama in using those words really means it or that he is just appeasing the right wing war mongers. I would hate to think that if the Iran nuclear deal fails, that the only other option on the table is war. Yet that is precisely the reason Netanyahu wants the deal to fail. Indefinite sanctions for perpetuity is not a feasible option, so at some point it will be war. And like the Iraq War that was largely undertaken at the Israel Firsters behest, American troops, if push comes to shove, will again fight the Iranians and "die for Isarel". Netanyahu and his Likudists do not represent the majority of Israelis, but like all authoritarians, he will continue to use fear and disinformation to get his masses to support him.

    I trust Iran more than I trust Israel. Israel is not a democracy.

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    johnnycee Wrote: Time will prove you wrong , Jared, the neighbors of Iran are not too thrilled about this

    You mean Saudi Arabia? The country who subjugates their women and teaches "Death to America" to every single citizen in their country? Saudi Arabia, the country whose citizens made up the vast majority of 9/11 hijackers that flew passenger airplanes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and killed 2,977 of our citizens? You're worried about them not liking the deal?

    Or do you mean the other Sunni countries? Sunni countries won't like any deal because they don't like Iran. And Israel won't like any deal because they don't like any Muslim country.

    And what don't you understand about this being an international agreement? Obama didn't write this deal himself and shove it down the international communities throat. It's called international diplomacy. Not "my way or the highway" diplomacy.

    johnnycee Wrote: you might have have to get off the President's lap and just stop agreeing with everything this man does or says

    Trust me. I don't agree with many things Obama and the Democrats do. You just don't see that because you don't agree with anything Obama and the democrats do.

    johnnycee Wrote: it's not about liking him but what he does for the Nation or involves us in on the Worlds stage

    You don't like what he does for the nation? Does it grind your gears that he pulled American troops out of two unpopular wars? Or that he forced the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which eventually brought about marriage equality to every single state in this nation? Does it grind your gears that he passed healthcare reform that guaranteed every single American can no longer be denied healthcare because a private insurance company didn't feel like giving it to them?

    You don't like what he does on the world stage? Does it grind your gears that he actually talks with our international partners and doesn't resort to sending hundreds of thousands of troops to every corner of the planet to force our will on the entire world? Does it grind your gears that he actually stands up to Benjamin Netanyahu and tells him he won't be his pawn in yet another Middle Eastern war?

    How you continue to have the audacity to call yourself a democrat is laughable.

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    Schmidt Wrote: I trust Iran more than I trust Israel. Israel is not a democracy.

    I am tired of fighting wars on Israel's behalf too.

    And I also trust Iran more than I ever will Israel. Iran hasn't been responsible for the death of a single American soldier, but we somehow label them a mortal threat to the entire world. It's Republican fear mongering at its best. I just wish they would come out and admit that they want another war in the Middle East. At least they would be telling the truth then.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote: I trust Iran more than I trust Israel. Israel is not a democracy.

    I am tired of fighting wars on Israel's behalf too.

    And I also trust Iran more than I ever will Israel. Iran hasn't been responsible for the death of a single American soldier, but we somehow label them a mortal threat to the entire world. It's Republican fear mongering at its best. I just wish they would come out and admit that they want another war in the Middle East. At least they would be telling the truth then.

    I am commenting because this is very important. I am 100% in agreement that Israel is a real mess. That's an idea for a new thread that would probably rival - The Big Bang Theory.

    I don't trust Iran at all. I don't trust Israel either. Difference is, chanting "Death to America" can be seen most days in Iran and never in Israel. That doesn't escalate Israel but if your 6th from the bottom of the list of all countries or 7th from the bottom is not a significant difference.

    I believe that our catering towards Israel is because many feel or believe that it translates into being deserving of the Jewish votes in any given election.

    I won't take this thread off topic but it's certainly a case of the lesser of two evils.

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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    johnnycee Wrote: Time will prove you wrong , Jared, the neighbors of Iran are not too thrilled about this

    You mean Saudi Arabia? The country who subjugates their women and teaches "Death to America" to every single citizen in their country? Saudi Arabia, the country whose citizens made up the vast majority of 9/11 hijackers that flew passenger airplanes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and killed 2,977 of our citizens? You're worried about them not liking the deal?

    Or do you mean the other Sunni countries? Sunni countries won't like any deal because they don't like Iran. And Israel won't like any deal because they don't like any Muslim country.

    And what don't you understand about this being an international agreement? Obama didn't write this deal himself and shove it down the international communities throat. It's called international diplomacy. Not "my way or the highway" diplomacy.

    johnnycee Wrote: you might have have to get off the President's lap and just stop agreeing with everything this man does or says

    Trust me. I don't agree with many things Obama and the Democrats do. You just don't see that because you don't agree with anything Obama and the democrats do.

    johnnycee Wrote: it's not about liking him but what he does for the Nation or involves us in on the Worlds stage

    You don't like what he does for the nation? Does it grind your gears that he pulled American troops out of two unpopular wars? Or that he forced the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which eventually brought about marriage equality to every single state in this nation? Does it grind your gears that he passed healthcare reform that guaranteed every single American can no longer be denied healthcare because a private insurance company didn't feel like giving it to them?

    You don't like what he does on the world stage? Does it grind your gears that he actually talks with our international partners and doesn't resort to sending hundreds of thousands of troops to every corner of the planet to force our will on the entire world? Does it grind your gears that he actually stands up to Benjamin Netanyahu and tells him he won't be his pawn in yet another Middle Eastern war?

    How you continue to have the audacity to call yourself a democrat is laughable.

    There were 6 Nations who participated in these talks , Britain, China ,France, Germany, Russia and the US, not one from the Middle East, you speak of Iran as if they were God's gift to it's citizens, while speaking of Saudi Arabia , you criticize them for their stance on women issues as being subjugative while not considering Iran's treatment of it's women population, at least women in Saudi Arabia are allowed to drive , and get educated, you certainly like to cherry pick things to suit your narrative, this deal is no good, trust me, as you will soon find out. As for pulling out the troops, the argument has been made that if we stayed the development of ISIS would not have occurred and of course the results of that decision has been felt for years and will be felt years from now. Now just out of curiosity , what are some of the many things that you did not agree with the President on?
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    Washington Post, July 15, 2015: Full text: Obama’s news conference on the Iran nuclear deal

    President Obama held a press conference today outlining the Iran nuclear deal and answering questions at length. Obama had obviously done his homework, and explained every point of contention with patience. For those on this website that have doubts or disagreements on the terms of the deal, I'm sure you will find your answer here explained fully to your satisfaction.

    After he had exhausted his list of questioners, he opened the meeting up to invite more questions. He did not rush the conference. His role was there to educate and explain and push back on all the false and misleading info put out by his opponents.

    So Johnnycee...read on...