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Indiana was able to move their state back to 1950 by passing a law where Religion gets used to set a bigoted law. I think that it's pitiful. Just a tiny step away from the you can't eat in this restaurant because the color of your skin. Maybe one day we can move all of the ignorant citizens into one state and let then secede from the USA.
Bigotry is in style today in the Hosier state but lets take a look at it again in 5 or so years. What makes the world go around ? Money - and lot's of it. This crazy bigoted law will cause groups/companies to not renew their lease when there are so many cities trying to get new companies in their city creating employment.
The NCAA has their offices in Indianapolis but I expect that could change going forward.
Secondly, Conventions and Sporting events. I imagine that the NFL won't consider placing a Super Bowl there. This years college basketball "Final Four" is already scheduled to be in Indianapolis but that won't happen again. Hosiers..... Say goodbye to the money made by hotels, restaurants, gas stations, parking garages, retail stores, Wages earned by Police officers, parking attendants, service industry staffs. The convention industry is fierce in competition so all cities will sell the idea that there are not citizens that they will turn away. A large convention can bring millions to a city.
I think that it's crazy and insulting to suggest that you always know somebodies sexuality upon a first glance. Uh, I know that you're gay...but the church group just left and it's kind of a slow night so we'll feed you tonight but don't come back on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. We have many customers on those days.
Bottom line is their exclusionary ways are fine today. They'll all brag about it Sunday in church. When it starts to cost the cities and businesses big money I wouldn't be surprised if it's revisited.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/mike-pence-religious-freedom-bill-gay-rights/
(link was from our News section)
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TJ Wrote: Indiana was able to move their state back to 1950 by passing a law where Religion gets used to set a bigoted law. I think that it's pitiful. Just a tiny step away from the you can't eat in this restaurant because the color of your skin. Maybe one day we can move all of the ignorant citizens into one state and let then secede from the USA.
Bigotry is in style today in the Hosier state but lets take a look at it again in 5 or so years. What makes the world go around ? Money - and lot's of it. This crazy bigoted law will cause groups/companies to not renew their lease when there are so many cities trying to get new companies in their city creating employment.
The NCAA has their offices in Indianapolis but I expect that could change going forward.
Secondly, Conventions and Sporting events. I imagine that the NFL won't consider placing a Super Bowl there. This years college basketball "Final Four" is already scheduled to be in Indianapolis but that won't happen again. Hosiers..... Say goodbye to the money made by hotels, restaurants, gas stations, parking garages, retail stores, Wages earned by Police officers, parking attendants, service industry staffs. The convention industry is fierce in competition so all cities will sell the idea that there are not citizens that they will turn away. A large convention can bring millions to a city.
I think that it's crazy and insulting to suggest that you always know somebodies sexuality upon a first glance. Uh, I know that you're gay...but the church group just left and it's kind of a slow night so we'll feed you tonight but don't come back on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. We have many customers on those days.
Bottom line is their exclusionary ways are fine today. They'll all brag about it Sunday in church. When it starts to cost the cities and businesses big money I wouldn't be surprised if it's revisited.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/mike-pence-religious-freedom-bill-gay-rights/
(link was from our News section) Tony, indeed it is a shame; but as you said if "money" gets involved, then indeed they may change their minds. The money "god" always wins; so don't worry have them sell some more "bibles" that compensates the losses.
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All three of the major religions Hebrew,Muslim and Christian all have tenets regarding homosexuality, all of which are against Homosexuality, I can't speak on the Hebrew or Muslim faith as I am neither, but I am a Christian, and Christians view homosexuality as a sin (crime) against God , so although we love the sinner we still abhor the act, if your relative is a thief you would not entrust them with something valuable ,it's that you don't like or love them, it's because you don't want to be a participate in their sin. Now many certain Christian denominations have soften their views on this but not all, and it is a very personal decision between that person and their own personal view of their respective faith. I myself view it as a sin and will not knowingly participate in any activity that emphasizes the gay life style, in much the same way I would not accompany a gambler to a casino or lend a car to a person who wants to rob a bank, by doing so would make me an accomplice to their acts and thereby making me more of sinner than they are because I should know better. This I know is a form of discrimination but I rather place God's Law before man's laws.
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johnnycee Wrote: All three of the major religions Hebrew,Muslim and Christian all have tenets regarding homosexuality, all of which are against Homosexuality, I can't speak on the Hebrew or Muslim faith as I am neither, but I am a Christian, and Christians view homosexuality as a sin (crime) against God , so although we love the sinner we still abhor the act, if your relative is a thief you would not entrust them with something valuable ,it's that you don't like or love them, it's because you don't want to be a participate in their sin. Now many certain Christian denominations have soften their views on this but not all, and it is a very personal decision between that person and their own personal view of their respective faith. I myself view it as a sin and will not knowingly participate in any activity that emphasizes the gay life style, in much the same way I would not accompany a gambler to a casino or lend a car to a person who wants to rob a bank, by doing so would make me an accomplice to their acts and thereby making me more of sinner than they are because I should know better. This I know is a form of discrimination but I rather place God's Law before man's laws. then you had damn well better follow ALL of the law. because according to scripture "the lord said to moses..." and that means all of the law. so which laws do you chose to disregard and which ones do you chose to follow?
but let's look deeper into your position.
how many large corporations including software and computer tech companies offer benefits to same-sex couples? do you buy and use their products? because if you do you are guilty of supporting the "gay lifestyle", a pejorative produced by leviticans who do not believe biology but prefer their own prejudices. when you walk into the neighborhood small business to buy a product or service do you ask if they supply benefits for same-sex couples or if any workers are gay or if the owner is gay? because if they are then you are supporting the gay lifestyle.
and please abandon that "hate the sin, love the sinner" nonsense. it is verbal juggling. admit your prejudice. have some intellectual honesty. say you hate gay people because you cannot separate the act from the person any more than you can separate straight people from heterosexual sex. it is part and parcel of their humanity. it is in their dna, their genes, whether you like it or accept it or not.
but even more interesting is that paul, the word of god remember, said that we are free of the law. what did he mean? all of the law? or only those parts that leviticans choose to kick to the curb? and of course the christ said no such thing.
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Early last year, the Arizona legislature passed SB 1062, described as a "religious freedom" bill. Wisely, Governor Jan Brewer vetoed the bill on February 26, 2014, thus saving the 2015 Super Bowl and its $500 million economic impact for the state. In the back of her mind, she undoubtedly remembered when Arizona DID lose the Super Bowl about 20 years ago when Governor Evan Meacham cancelled the Martin Luther King holiday. In addition to Indiana and Arizona, other states have considered, or are considering, similar "religious freedom" bills, and they are listed in the article shown below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_SB_1062
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608021534006839645&w=138&h=177&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
The issue came up again this week in Georgia, but the Democrats figured out a way to kill it, Interestingly enough, the Senate passed their version while the Democrats were in the bathroom (seriously) but the Democrats in the House were able to call their bluff, and the bill died:
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/27/3639808/georgia-religious-liberty-bill-dies-glorious-death/
According to at least one writer, the economic benefit of hosting a NCAA tournament is close to $10 million. If the NCAA moves its headquarters out of Indianapolis, and holds no more tournaments in the state, the business owners in the state are going to start screaming.
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/ncaa-tournament/hosting-ncaa-tournament-games-has-tangible-benefits/
The "elephant in the room", of course, is the Indianapolis 500, which generates close to $20 million in economic impact. If sponsors start to avoid the event due to the new law, the legislature may decide that it's long past time to repeal the law.
http://www.500festival.com/node/547
There will always be people who believe that homosexuality is a sin, and trying to convince them otherwise is would be like teaching algebra to your dog. Roughly 30% of the American population believes in the literal translation of the Bible, but I'm not one of them.
I don't give a damn what is says in Leviticus 11:7. I had bacon for breakfast this morning, and it was delicious.
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that guy in Arizona Wrote: According to at least one writer, the economic benefit of hosting a NCAA tournament is close to $10 million. If the NCAA moves its headquarters out of Indianapolis, and holds no more tournaments in the state, the business owners in the state are going to start screaming.
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/ncaa-tournament/hosting-ncaa-tournament-games-has-tangible-benefits/
The "elephant in the room", of course, is the Indianapolis 500, which generates close to $20 million in economic impact. If sponsors start to avoid the event due to the new law, the legislature may decide that it's long past time to repeal the law.
http://www.500festival.com/node/547 I agree. If both of these big events see sponsors flee then I have a feeling the Indiana Governor will call a special session to repeal the law. Money speaks more than anything else in America.that guy in Arizona Wrote: There will always be people who believe that homosexuality is a sin, and trying to convince them otherwise is would be like teaching algebra to your dog. Roughly 30% of the American population believes in the literal translation of the Bible, but I'm not one of them.
I don't give a damn what is says in Leviticus 11:7. I had bacon for breakfast this morning, and it was delicious.
This is a great analogy. Those who are stuck in the 1500's aren't going to join the 21st Century anytime soon. Judging and hating those who don't conform to their lifestyle is just what they do. It's not going to change.
And I agree--there's nothing better than some thick-cut bacon strips on a Saturday morning.
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I do try and follow all of the laws, like the Ten Commandants, but under the new covenant set by Jesus, when He was question by the Jewish Authorities regarding Civil Law and Jewish law, " Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and unto God ,what is God's", if mans laws conflicts with Gods. law then you follow God's law, even knowing full well the consequence's could prove fatal, hence the term martyrdom. The operative word is knowingly, so according to your logic I cannot patronize any store or company that employs anyone of the gay life style as their salary helps them to continue to live as they see fit in the Gay lifestyle,is that right? So then I would be guilty of discrimination by not patronizing the store , kind of a convoluted logic that I obviously disagree with, mainly because that is not the full purpose of that store or company, again hate the sin not the sinner.
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johnnycee Wrote: I do try and follow all of the laws, like the Ten Commandants, but under the new covenant set by Jesus, when He was question by the Jewish Authorities regarding Civil Law and Jewish law, " Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and unto God ,what is God's", if mans laws conflicts with Gods. law then you follow God's law, even knowing full well the consequence's could prove fatal, hence the term martyrdom. The operative word is knowingly, so according to your logic I cannot patronize any store or company that employs anyone of the gay life style as their salary helps them to continue to live as they see fit in the Gay lifestyle,is that right? So then I would be guilty of discrimination by not patronizing the store , kind of a convoluted logic that I obviously disagree with, mainly because that is not the full purpose of that store or company, again hate the sin not the sinner. J.C. you still don't understand that your buddy "Jesus" never wrote one word; his followers did write whatever came up what fitted their thinking more than 40 years after his death. So stop the B.S. Also "bibles were written by "antique uneducated humans" living in the middle east culture of those days; no one from outerspace was involved, also the world around them consisted only of the middle east and the world was flat ; even Jesus did not know better; nor is it a "law" book; so if you follow any "human" words written in a 1000 year old book; that is your choice, not mine. I prefer to think for myself or follow todays modern science.
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Dutch Wrote:johnnycee Wrote: I do try and follow all of the laws, like the Ten Commandants, but under the new covenant set by Jesus, when He was question by the Jewish Authorities regarding Civil Law and Jewish law, " Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and unto God ,what is God's", if mans laws conflicts with Gods. law then you follow God's law, even knowing full well the consequence's could prove fatal, hence the term martyrdom. The operative word is knowingly, so according to your logic I cannot patronize any store or company that employs anyone of the gay life style as their salary helps them to continue to live as they see fit in the Gay lifestyle,is that right? So then I would be guilty of discrimination by not patronizing the store , kind of a convoluted logic that I obviously disagree with, mainly because that is not the full purpose of that store or company, again hate the sin not the sinner. J.C. you still don't understand that your buddy "Jesus" never wrote one word; his followers did write whatever came up what fitted their thinking more than 40 years after his death. So stop the B.S. Also "bibles were written by "antique uneducated humans" living in the middle east culture of those days; no one from outerspace was involved, also the world around them consisted only of the middle east and the world was flat ; even Jesus did not know better; nor is it a "law" book; so if you follow any "human" words written in a 1000 year old book; that is your choice, not mine. I prefer to think for myself or follow todays modern science. I do not consider Jesus my buddy, I believe that Jesus is my Savior, nothing less, nothing more, which of course is vastly different from a being a buddy. The Authors of the Scriptures first spoke of things to come and what to look out for, certain signs and symbols that were related to the particular theory of the early Church, in this case the Hebrew Faith, as time evolved ,it seemed to some that having a written Word would be better so as not have to many versions of the same story being told and sometimes re-told with oft times a different slant to the story. The Apostles and others decided to put to words what they witnessed so as to keep the narrative true to the event, Paul, whom many believe is the real backbone of the early Christian Church because of his conversion and his evangelizing , Paul, who was a Roman citizen , and was educated and also , was a government official, a self proclaimed crusader who mission was to oust the early followers of Jesus and bring them to trial, so the early authors were not uneducated humans, BTW, no one knows what Jesus knew or didn't know about the world and He only told his followers about the World awaiting them after their time on this planet was done. The Books Of Holy Scriptures, whether it be the Talmud, or the Koran or the Holy Bible are Laws written for the followers to obey , abet Spiritual Ones , but none then less valid as the Civil Laws of Society only with greater penalties. It is not my choice to follow the teachings of Jesus, but rather it is Man's choice to not follow the teachings..
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johnnycee Wrote:Dutch Wrote:johnnycee Wrote: I do try and follow all of the laws, like the Ten Commandants, but under the new covenant set by Jesus, when He was question by the Jewish Authorities regarding Civil Law and Jewish law, " Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and unto God ,what is God's", if mans laws conflicts with Gods. law then you follow God's law, even knowing full well the consequence's could prove fatal, hence the term martyrdom. The operative word is knowingly, so according to your logic I cannot patronize any store or company that employs anyone of the gay life style as their salary helps them to continue to live as they see fit in the Gay lifestyle,is that right? So then I would be guilty of discrimination by not patronizing the store , kind of a convoluted logic that I obviously disagree with, mainly because that is not the full purpose of that store or company, again hate the sin not the sinner. J.C. you still don't understand that your buddy "Jesus" never wrote one word; his followers did write whatever came up what fitted their thinking more than 40 years after his death. So stop the B.S. Also "bibles were written by "antique uneducated humans" living in the middle east culture of those days; no one from outerspace was involved, also the world around them consisted only of the middle east and the world was flat ; even Jesus did not know better; nor is it a "law" book; so if you follow any "human" words written in a 1000 year old book; that is your choice, not mine. I prefer to think for myself or follow todays modern science. I do not consider Jesus my buddy, I believe that Jesus is my Savior, nothing less, nothing more, which of course is vastly different from a being a buddy. The Authors of the Scriptures first spoke of things to come and what to look out for, certain signs and symbols that were related to the particular theory of the early Church, in this case the Hebrew Faith, as time evolved ,it seemed to some that having a written Word would be better so as not have to many versions of the same story being told and sometimes re-told with oft times a different slant to the story. The Apostles and others decided to put to words what they witnessed so as to keep the narrative true to the event, Paul, whom many believe is the real backbone of the early Christian Church because of his conversion and his evangelizing , Paul, who was a Roman citizen , and was educated and also , was a government official, a self proclaimed crusader who mission was to oust the early followers of Jesus and bring them to trial, so the early authors were not uneducated humans, BTW, no one knows what Jesus knew or didn't know about the world and He only told his followers about the World awaiting them after their time on this planet was done. The Books Of Holy Scriptures, whether it be the Talmud, or the Koran or the Holy Bible are Laws written for the followers to obey , abet Spiritual Ones , but none then less valid as the Civil Laws of Society only with greater penalties. It is not my choice to follow the teachings of Jesus, but rather it is Man's choice to not follow the teachings.. J.C I just sent an e-mail to "Jesus.Com" he answered it is "god's will" now yr happy? La la land welcomes you; booked a trip to Mars yet?
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