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Yemen the new proxy war?

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  • jaredsxtn
    2015-03-30 04:53:32 PM
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    Dutch Wrote: Schmidt the huge problem is that stations like CNN invite these corrupt assholes all the time so they can convince the public that they run a "clean" show. That is how it works and nobody cares that we spent a TRILLION in Afghanistan; results unknown; guess what is wrong with this country?
    Results unknown?! I think we all know what the results of that conflict are. Maybe Bush could have turned Afghanistan into a success story if he didn't pull out most of our forces so we could play war with another country that didn't do anything to us at all.
    Dutch Wrote: Excuses, excuses and of course "god's" will; and this "imaginary" thing "blesses" America?. You must be kidding!!
    Of course God wanted us to invade a country for no reason other than to steal their oil. It's right there in the good book. Doesn't Jesus tell his followers to wage war on people who did absolutely nothing to us so we can plunder their land, slaughter tens of thousands of their citizens, and steal their natural resources?

    Back to Yemen though...this is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let them duke it out and see who wins. America has no stake in this fight and we don't need to send a single American soldier there to be a sitting duck between two sides engaging in a religious war.

    Is it of any surprise that America pulled out and Saudi Arabia went in? Just think if we did that in the rest of the Middle-East. Let the region figure out their disputes among themselves. We shouldn't let one more soldier die trying to play mediator between two warring factions in a religious civil war.
  • Dutch
    2015-03-31 08:31:12 AM
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Schmidt the huge problem is that stations like CNN invite these corrupt assholes all the time so they can convince the public that they run a "clean" show. That is how it works and nobody cares that we spent a TRILLION in Afghanistan; results unknown; guess what is wrong with this country?
    Results unknown?! I think we all know what the results of that conflict are. Maybe Bush could have turned Afghanistan into a success story if he didn't pull out most of our forces so we could play war with another country that didn't do anything to us at all.
    Dutch Wrote: Excuses, excuses and of course "god's" will; and this "imaginary" thing "blesses" America?. You must be kidding!!
    Of course God wanted us to invade a country for no reason other than to steal their oil. It's right there in the good book. Doesn't Jesus tell his followers to wage war on people who did absolutely nothing to us so we can plunder their land, slaughter tens of thousands of their citizens, and steal their natural resources?

    Back to Yemen though...this is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let them duke it out and see who wins. America has no stake in this fight and we don't need to send a single American soldier there to be a sitting duck between two sides engaging in a religious war.

    Is it of any surprise that America pulled out and Saudi Arabia went in? Just think if we did that in the rest of the Middle-East. Let the region figure out their disputes among themselves. We shouldn't let one more soldier die trying to play mediator between two warring factions in a religious civil war.
    Jared; not quite correct ; your statement: Back to Yemen though...this is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let them duke it out and see who wins. America has no stake in this fight and we don't need to send a single American soldier there to be a sitting duck between two sides engaging in a religious war..... is not complete; we spent fortunes there in weapons and drones as well military assistance; these weapons are now in hands of the rebels. I guess you are forgetting that the U.S. meddles everywhere in the world where there is a conflict; that is our national decease. I can tell you right now that we keep doing that also in Yemen, but via the backdoor and Saudia. No we always poke our noses in everything and make the mess only bigger by our interference because we don't know the middle east and its etnic balances. We think we know it all; but don't. Of course our 999 generals and the Pentagon is proud of their record. Wow.
  • Mephistopheles
    2015-03-31 03:42:19 PM
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    Dutch Wrote:
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote: Schmidt the huge problem is that stations like CNN invite these corrupt assholes all the time so they can convince the public that they run a "clean" show. That is how it works and nobody cares that we spent a TRILLION in Afghanistan; results unknown; guess what is wrong with this country?
    Results unknown?! I think we all know what the results of that conflict are. Maybe Bush could have turned Afghanistan into a success story if he didn't pull out most of our forces so we could play war with another country that didn't do anything to us at all.
    Dutch Wrote: Excuses, excuses and of course "god's" will; and this "imaginary" thing "blesses" America?. You must be kidding!!
    Of course God wanted us to invade a country for no reason other than to steal their oil. It's right there in the good book. Doesn't Jesus tell his followers to wage war on people who did absolutely nothing to us so we can plunder their land, slaughter tens of thousands of their citizens, and steal their natural resources?

    Back to Yemen though...this is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let them duke it out and see who wins. America has no stake in this fight and we don't need to send a single American soldier there to be a sitting duck between two sides engaging in a religious war.

    Is it of any surprise that America pulled out and Saudi Arabia went in? Just think if we did that in the rest of the Middle-East. Let the region figure out their disputes among themselves. We shouldn't let one more soldier die trying to play mediator between two warring factions in a religious civil war.
    Jared; not quite correct ; your statement: Back to Yemen though...this is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Let them duke it out and see who wins. America has no stake in this fight and we don't need to send a single American soldier there to be a sitting duck between two sides engaging in a religious war..... is not complete; we spent fortunes there in weapons and drones as well military assistance; these weapons are now in hands of the rebels. I guess you are forgetting that the U.S. meddles everywhere in the world where there is a conflict; that is our national decease. I can tell you right now that we keep doing that also in Yemen, but via the backdoor and Saudia. No we always poke our noses in everything and make the mess only bigger by our interference because we don't know the middle east and its etnic balances. We think we know it all; but don't. Of course our 999 generals and the Pentagon is proud of their record. Wow.
    Actually we do have a stake in the fight. War in Yemen is actually great for us, economically speaking. The Shale Oil revolution has hit a pretty bad roadblock with supply being too high vs demand. A war in Yemen that spills over to Saudi or Omani fields and disrupts production would be a real thorn in the Saudi power play to try and price the US producers out of the market. What we really need to beat the Saudis is for Yemen's civil war to spill over into Saudi Arabia and prices to rise again.

    We certainly don't meddle in every conflict, however, nor should we. Only in conflicts that specifically concern our interests. Going to war for 'humanitarian' reasons is stupid; we don't tend to stay long enough to do any real good, and we usually don't fully understand the conflict in the first place.
  • Schmidt
    2015-04-01 12:20:18 AM
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    Oil is commodity traded on the world markets at market prices. It doesn't matter who produces it, the price remains what the market will bear for the quality of the crude with adjustments for transportation expenses. Yes, of course if a strategic supply like Saudi Arabia is curtailed or entirely shut-in by war, then prices will rise. But isn't that a good thing for the US consumer? Certainly the US oil producers would like that as it adds to their profit margin. However, low oil prices have given a boost to the economy, and many economists feel that's good. In the longer term it will hurt the oil sector, but that effect is more than offset by the beneficial effect on the rest of the economy.

    I agree with you on the fact that few Americans understand the basis of all the conflicts in the Middle East. For the war hawks in Congress all that matters is war. They are driven by the war profiteers. Without war profit motive there would be fewer wars.
  • Dutch
    2015-04-01 08:36:04 AM
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    Schmidt Wrote: Oil is commodity traded on the world markets at market prices. It doesn't matter who produces it, the price remains what the market will bear for the quality of the crude with adjustments for transportation expenses. Yes, of course if a strategic supply like Saudi Arabia is curtailed or entirely shut-in by war, then prices will rise. But isn't that a good thing for the US consumer? Certainly the US oil producers would like that as it adds to their profit margin. However, low oil prices have given a boost to the economy, and many economists feel that's good. In the longer term it will hurt the oil sector, but that effect is more than offset by the beneficial effect on the rest of the economy.

    I agree with you on the fact that few Americans understand the basis of all the conflicts in the Middle East. For the war hawks in Congress all that matters is war. They are driven by the war profiteers. Without war profit motive there would be fewer wars.
    Schmidt; yes you say it correctly; indeed the warmongers ( mostly Republicans) especially McCain likes to have rich lobyists around him.
  • Mephistopheles
    2015-04-01 09:14:55 AM
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    Yes, I would agree it is a good thing for the average consumer, but with the shale boom, there are a lot of US companies that depend on a certain margin to stay afloat. One of the main complaints by the Right over the last few decades was the dependency on foreign oil, but the shale boom has all but ended that. Now, we may be beholden to the Saudis again, if they get their way. In the oil patch here in Texas, my brother just survived an 80% layoff in oil field workers, because the drilling has basically ceased. His company is not the exception. There is the beginning of a real depression here in Texas now, due to the large influx of people who moved here for an oil job, and are now out of work. For-sale signs have sprung up all over my neighborhood. The oil economy was a large factor in the job growth over the past few years, one of the major bright spots in the country, and now that's dying a hard and brutal death.

    What benefits Russian oil producers benefits us in this regard. We want oil and natural gas to be higher, but not due to a drop in US production (which means less jobs and money staying in the US) but due to a drop in foreign production. We need either Venezuela to plunge into civil war, Yemen's conflict to spill into Saudi Arabia, or ISIS to shut off Iraqi production. Russian oil production falling off a cliff would be great too, but they are in so deep that they might not be able to afford to stop.
  • TJ
    2015-04-01 09:47:12 AM
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    Or your brother could learn to do something else. He might consider North Dakota. The crude/shale oil is a dirty mess. Money usually rules the world so it's production will continue and not slow down. The Saudi over production has seriously helped our economy and hurt Russia at the same time. I'm sorry that your brother and others have employment problems. This country has dealt with that for a very long time with manufacturing leaving for slave labor (bigger profits for the few) but wrecked lives for so damned many people. Our next financial crunch is probably the trillion dollars of student loan debt without matching jobs to pay for it. There are problems everywhere.
  • Dutch
    2015-04-01 10:14:14 AM
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    TJ Wrote: Or your brother could learn to do something else. He might consider North Dakota. The crude/shale oil is a dirty mess. Money usually rules the world so it's production will continue and not slow down. The Saudi over production has seriously helped our economy and hurt Russia at the same time. I'm sorry that your brother and others have employment problems. This country has dealt with that for a very long time with manufacturing leaving for slave labor (bigger profits for the few) but wrecked lives for so damned many people. Our next financial crunch is probably the trillion dollars of student loan debt without matching jobs to pay for it. There are problems everywhere.
    Tony, yes that is a typical problem in a Capitalistic society; the one percent and greed rules. Lets attack some more countries that will keep the money flowing to the one percent; you can't make money on oil alone..
  • Mephistopheles
    2015-04-02 11:20:28 AM
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    TJ Wrote: Or your brother could learn to do something else. He might consider North Dakota. The crude/shale oil is a dirty mess. Money usually rules the world so it's production will continue and not slow down. The Saudi over production has seriously helped our economy and hurt Russia at the same time. I'm sorry that your brother and others have employment problems. This country has dealt with that for a very long time with manufacturing leaving for slave labor (bigger profits for the few) but wrecked lives for so damned many people. Our next financial crunch is probably the trillion dollars of student loan debt without matching jobs to pay for it. There are problems everywhere.
    Totally agree the student debt is out of control and is crippling us. I was lucky enough to get out of College with minimal debt thanks to an Army Scholarship, but most people I was friends with were not so lucky, and are already 5 years behind me in the 'traditional' life steps (house, baby, etc) because what they would have used as their house payment gets sucked up into loan debt.

    North Dakota is in the same boat as Texas; my father works for a different service company up there as a field service tech. They are at a standstill as well. My brother has no college degree and not much money, so his prospects are limited.

    Oilfield manufacturing is one of the last major manufacturing sectors where the USA still dominates. Go to a rig in Russia, SE Asia, the Indian Ocean, Caspian Sea, the North Sea, Africa, etc, and the Oil tools are most likely made in America. No one can challenge American quality in the Oilfield yet, although China is trying. That industry is centered around Southern California and the Houston area, and is careening toward a cliff in a few months now that new drilling has dried up. Pipe fitters, welders, low level service techs, roughnecks, engineers, accountants, all of which are American (often a new immigrant) are getting laid off and trying to find work elsewhere in a weak economy.

    Right now, it is estimated that for shale oil to break even in the USA, it has to be at $65 a barrel (estimated. Exxon, Chevron, Shell, etc can do it more cheaply than the mom-and-pop companies that have sprung up in the last 10 years. A lot of those are much higher 'break-even', and unfortunately the big companies are buying up the failing start ups and consolidating their hold on the market) http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-breakeven-price-crude-oil-194354497.html. The Saudis can do it for $27 a barrel, because they import Bangladeshi workers, confiscate their passports, and don't pay them anything to work. I've been to Dubai and seen it myself. It's deplorable and the definition of slave labor.

    The big companies like Exxon can weather a few years of low prices, mainly because they don't actually own any drilling rigs or operations. The Oil business is a giant web of subcontractors; At a given well, there might be one Exxon rep (called the "Company Man") to oversee the operation. The only thing Exxon owns is the mineral rights, to limit their liability. The drilling rig is owned by another company, some of the major names are Ensco, TransOcean, Diamond Drilling, Longzhu, and others. Then the workers to drill are supplied by yet another company, (Schlumberger, Halliburton, GE Oil & Gas, FMC), and so on and so forth.

    What this does is allows Exxon to cut bait and basically fire all the subcontractors when the price of oil drops. Exxon gets away clean and just keeps pumping oil, while the subcontractors have no work for their people, and have to lay 1000s of people off or go bankrupt, or both.
  • Mephistopheles
    2015-04-02 11:21:46 AM
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    Dutch Wrote:
    TJ Wrote: Or your brother could learn to do something else. He might consider North Dakota. The crude/shale oil is a dirty mess. Money usually rules the world so it's production will continue and not slow down. The Saudi over production has seriously helped our economy and hurt Russia at the same time. I'm sorry that your brother and others have employment problems. This country has dealt with that for a very long time with manufacturing leaving for slave labor (bigger profits for the few) but wrecked lives for so damned many people. Our next financial crunch is probably the trillion dollars of student loan debt without matching jobs to pay for it. There are problems everywhere.
    Tony, yes that is a typical problem in a Capitalistic society; the one percent and greed rules. Lets attack some more countries that will keep the money flowing to the one percent; you can't make money on oil alone..
    Actually, I agree with Obama's hands-off policy with Yemen so far. When we go in and try to stabilize things, that helps drop the price of oil. I'd rather it be higher than lower.
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