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Yemen the new proxy war?

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Al Jazeera, March 26, 2015: Saudi and Arab allies bomb Houthi positions in Yemen

    Saudi Arabia and a coalition of regional allies have launched a military operation in Yemen against the Houthi rebels, who deposed the US-backed Yemeni president last month. Adel al-Jubair, Saudi ambassador to the US, said on Wednesday that a coalition consisting of 10 countries, including the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), had begun airstrikes at 7pm Eastern time.
    The strife has raised fears Yemen could be torn apart by a proxy war between Shia Iran, accused of backing the rebels - and Sunni-ruled Saudi Arabia, which supports Hadi.

    It would seem that many of these conflicts in the Middle East are proxy wars between Saudi Arabia and Iran. What else is new?
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote: Al Jazeera, March 26, 2015: Saudi and Arab allies bomb Houthi positions in Yemen

    Saudi Arabia and a coalition of regional allies have launched a military operation in Yemen against the Houthi rebels, who deposed the US-backed Yemeni president last month. Adel al-Jubair, Saudi ambassador to the US, said on Wednesday that a coalition consisting of 10 countries, including the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), had begun airstrikes at 7pm Eastern time.
    The strife has raised fears Yemen could be torn apart by a proxy war between Shia Iran, accused of backing the rebels - and Sunni-ruled Saudi Arabia, which supports Hadi.

    It would seem that many of these conflicts in the Middle East are proxy wars between Saudi Arabia and Iran. What else is new?
    It only means the mess is only expanding; the fear factor here, because of the strategic location for shipping through the Suez canal may be affected , which did drive up the oil prices and affected the stockmarket here. If this continues then we may end up with a total war in the middle east, which in big part was started thanks to our foreign policies. Thanks Mr. Bush.
  • Independent
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    ah, religion.

    what a wonderful concept.

    you're not worshipping correctly, i'll kill you!

    you're not worshipping the "correct" god, i'll kill you!

    your sacred writings are bullshit. no, yours are. we'll kill each other.
  • Independent
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    as to proxy war, the big powers such as western europe prefer that the u.s. waste their money and people. china laughs its ass off at the nonsense preferring to simply do business with whoever has what they want. russia it seems wants to achieve the goal of upper volta with nukes. as for sunnis and shi'a see my previous comment re: religion.

    and here? there is so much bullshit going on in the so-called halls of power and on main street where informed opinion seems to be parroting what fell out of a talking bobblehead's mouth on radio, tv or the interwebs that critical thinking has long since expired due to lack of interest. thoughtful discussion and deliberation? ain't happenin'.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    On the news yesterday, "The guy" being interviewed by Al Jazeera (Not an expert - LOL) said that Saudi Military has no actual history of Military battles. It's different to do token air strikes (ISIS) to maintain relations and an image of cooperation. I have no idea about Saudi military history and I don't care enough to check Wikipedia...... but the point was that Saudi doesn't not want to get their wealthy hands dirty or bloody actually fighting. I thought that was interesting. Iran on the other hand is buddies with the US for their fighting in Iraq but on the opposite side in the Yemen conflict. Should be interesting to see how we play to both sides. In the end we would side with the Saudi's because they have 2 things that we want: Money and Oil.

    It's amazing how much people are willing to get involved while sitting in a multi million dollar jet versus boots on the ground. It would be nice if the US only maintained an Air force but then what would we do with all of the Bowe Bergdahls who can't otherwise find a job, and aren't smart enough to fly a jet plane. Sorry back to the topic on hand.

    Now as far as Saudi Military history - I watched about 20 minutes of "Lawrence of Arabia" about 6 months ago. Not sure what was going on as the part I saw was guys riding across a desert on camels (and conveniently finding an Oasis with fresh water) but it seemed they were on their way to fight somebody.

    This brings up my previous question (on a different thread) about Sunni's, Shia, and who's where and how many. Plus the Houthis I don't know about them. I thought I had heard them mentioned in a mass killing in Africa a few years ago.
    Sounds like I'm going to end up on Wikipedia whether I want to or not.
  • Independent
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    TJ Wrote: On the news yesterday, "The guy" being interviewed by Al Jazeera (Not an expert - LOL) said that Saudi Military has no actual history of Military battles. It's different to do token air strikes (ISIS) to maintain relations and an image of cooperation. I have no idea about Saudi military history and I don't care enough to check Wikipedia...... but the point was that Saudi doesn't not want to get their wealthy hands dirty or bloody actually fighting. I thought that was interesting. Iran on the other hand is buddies with the US for their fighting in Iraq but on the opposite side in the Yemen conflict. Should be interesting to see how we play to both sides. In the end we would side with the Saudi's because they have 2 things that we want: Money and Oil.

    It's amazing how much people are willing to get involved while sitting in a multi million dollar jet versus boots on the ground. It would be nice if the US only maintained an Air force but then what would we do with all of the Bowe Bergdahls who can't otherwise find a job, and aren't smart enough to fly a jet plane. Sorry back to the topic on hand.

    Now as far as Saudi Military history - I watched about 20 minutes of "Lawrence of Arabia" about 6 months ago. Not sure what was going on as the part I saw was guys riding across a desert on camels (and conveniently finding an Oasis with fresh water) but it seemed they were on their way to fight somebody.

    This brings up my previous question (on a different thread) about Sunni's, Shia, and who's where and how many. Plus the Houthis I don't know about them. I thought I had heard them mentioned in a mass killing in Africa a few years ago.
    Sounds like I'm going to end up on Wikipedia whether I want to or not.
    to put it bluntly the saudis cannot be counted on for anything except that they look after the interests of their massive royal family while creating a shitstorm of unemployed young men (primarily) who majored in islamic studies. they basically create terrorism.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Forgive me. This will be a lengthy post. It's because I didn't know enough about the Sunni or Shia branches of Islam. I looked into it and no one page or link made it clear. Below are links to many maps that show the locations and percentages of these groups. If you too are not familiar with who's where and what the demographics are...... this may help explain a little bit more.

    http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/6670/1514/1600/sunni_shia_map.jpg

    http://static.theglobalmail.org/cache/91/8b/918b3f127dc93e99545a0ea34d91a64d.jpg

    http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/assets/4231075/sunni_shia_nasr.jpg

    http://www.cfr.org/peace-conflict-and-human-rights/sunni-shia-divide/p33176#!/

    https://thesinosaudiblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mid-east-religion.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia%E2%80%93Sunni_relations

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam


    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam

    ...... Bottom line, there are way more Sunni except in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Bahrain, Qatar, and Yemen. And, they just don't like each other because the other one is just wrong....
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    TJ -- Thanks for sharing the many links. What I think that many people do not understand is that although the main branches of Islam are Sunni and Shia, there are several subdivisions of these branches...much like Christianity. Thus like the various denominations of Christianity following under the two main branches (Protestant or Catholic), the various subdivisions of Islam essentially have become religions of their own. The big example here is the Wahhabi/Salifist (technically a branch of Sunni) sect of Saudi Arabia in which they still flog and behead people that do not conform to the fundamentalist interpretation of Sharia law. And the extreme of the Wahhabis is the ISIS movement that finds its "caliphate legitimacy" in the ancient scriptures of the Qur'an that are largely not followed by the main "modernist" branches of Sunni and Shias that are practiced in countries like Indonesia and Pakistan or Jordan.

    Furthermore, calling a country like Saudi Arabia as Sunni or Wahhabi, largely ignores the geographical dispersion of the sects. Your link above,

    https://thesinosaudiblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mid-east-religion.jpg

    is very telling in that regard. What it amounts to is that the various religious factions have become tribal and that's what makes it so difficult to identify the "enemy" to takes sides with and/or supply arms to. The Americans and their military contractors (the war profiteers) need to supply arms to one or more of the sides to make money out of these conflicts, but sometimes we end up supplying both sides. That can be a difficult sell at home, but as long as we are making the world safe for democracy and fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here, Americans are okay with that. Okay I'm being a little cynical...I've been reading too much stuff by Dutch.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: The Americans and their military contractors (the war profiteers) need to supply arms to one or more of the sides to make money out of these conflicts, but sometimes we end up supplying both sides. That can be a difficult sell at home, but as long as we are making the world safe for democracy and fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here, Americans are okay with that. Okay I'm being a little cynical...I've been reading too much stuff by Dutch.
    This is something I've been trying to get a better understanding of recently. The more I read about it, the more I realize that the military industrial complex in America has and continues to fund both sides in countless civil wars and other conflicts throughout the past sixty years or so. I knew it was bad, but I never realized how bad it really was. It honestly seems like President Obama wants to try to change that, but he is up against a gargantuan lobby.

    He is called weak and indecisive if he doesn't send arms into Ukraine, Middle-Eastern wars, et al. He is accused of rambling and being aloof whenever he tries to educate the rest of the country about the possible perils of sending billions of dollars worth of weapons into a conflict where we don't really know who our friends or foes are. And he is labeled a traitor for not bowing down to our true Supreme Leader, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    I apologize--maybe I've been reading too many of Dutch's posts, as well! Maybe I need to listen to 'real Americans' like Ted Cruz, Rush Limbaugh, and Michele Bachmann more so they can get me back in line.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote: The Americans and their military contractors (the war profiteers) need to supply arms to one or more of the sides to make money out of these conflicts, but sometimes we end up supplying both sides. That can be a difficult sell at home, but as long as we are making the world safe for democracy and fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here, Americans are okay with that. Okay I'm being a little cynical...I've been reading too much stuff by Dutch.
    This is something I've been trying to get a better understanding of recently. The more I read about it, the more I realize that the military industrial complex in America has and continues to fund both sides in countless civil wars and other conflicts throughout the past sixty years or so. I knew it was bad, but I never realized how bad it really was. It honestly seems like President Obama wants to try to change that, but he is up against a gargantuan lobby.

    He is called weak and indecisive if he doesn't send arms into Ukraine, Middle-Eastern wars, et al. He is accused of rambling and being aloof whenever he tries to educate the rest of the country about the possible perils of sending billions of dollars worth of weapons into a conflict where we don't really know who our friends or foes are. And he is labeled a traitor for not bowing down to our true Supreme Leader, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    I apologize--maybe I've been reading too many of Dutch's posts, as well! Maybe I need to listen to 'real Americans' like Ted Cruz, Rush Limbaugh, and Michele Bachmann more so they can get me back in line.
    Schmidt & Jared; Wow; reading too much of my stuff? Sure, I always thought no-one wants to read my junk. Anyway, I'm glad my "indoctrination" works; pls sent your donations to my Ferrari fund. Anyway about the subject; yes our "weapon" industry loves to sell to anyone; our politicians "will talk" it right. No problem.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Yes if our military suppliers can sell to both sides of a conflict it's like a drug dealer selling crack to a husband knowing that he also sold crack to his wife hours earlier. Bottom line, there's much crack in the household and the dealer made extra profit. Replace crack with weapons. Happy world.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Mother Jones: US Weapons Have a Nasty Habit of Going AWOL

    On Tuesday, the Washington Post reported that the Pentagon can't say what happened to more than $500 million worth of gear—including "small arms, ammunition, night-vision goggles, patrol boats, vehicles and other supplies"—it had given to the Yemeni government. The news comes as Al Qaeda and Iranian-backed groups vie to control the country following the collapse of the country's US-backed regime in January. The Post noted that the Pentagon has stopped further shipments of aid, but the damage has been done. "We have to assume it's completely compromised and gone," an anonymous legislative aide said.

    The article notes that this is hardly the first time that American supplied weapons have gone missing and have been used against our own soldiers. Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and Syria are countries where our weapons are now on the "other side". Okay my cynicism would suggest that in the minds of the arms suppliers that manufacture these weapons (the war profiteers) that's okay. It means we are getting rich supplying both sides, the capitalist dream, with nearly unlimited potential as we just up our military budget to make up for the "losses". And who cares as long as we are making the world safe for democracy. You don't support our troops you say! How unpatriotic.

    Thanks Dutch.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote: Mother Jones: US Weapons Have a Nasty Habit of Going AWOL

    On Tuesday, the Washington Post reported that the Pentagon can't say what happened to more than $500 million worth of gear—including "small arms, ammunition, night-vision goggles, patrol boats, vehicles and other supplies"—it had given to the Yemeni government. The news comes as Al Qaeda and Iranian-backed groups vie to control the country following the collapse of the country's US-backed regime in January. The Post noted that the Pentagon has stopped further shipments of aid, but the damage has been done. "We have to assume it's completely compromised and gone," an anonymous legislative aide said.

    The article notes that this is hardly the first time that American supplied weapons have gone missing and have been used against our own soldiers. Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and Syria are countries where our weapons are now on the "other side". Okay my cynicism would suggest that in the minds of the arms suppliers that manufacture these weapons (the war profiteers) that's okay. It means we are getting rich supplying both sides, the capitalist dream, with nearly unlimited potential as we just up our military budget to make up for the "losses". And who cares as long as we are making the world safe for democracy. You don't support our troops you say! How unpatriotic.

    Thanks Dutch.
    Thanks Schmidt; you forgot to mention billions lost in Iraq; more billions stolen in Pakistan ( the route of transport to Afghanistan) etc. Thus it is not only the "sale" but also the "theft" ; some of it ends up here again as "unregistered arms" . Don't you love our Pentagon leaders?
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Republicans often say that government should be run like a corporation. They tout corporate CEO experience as being a quality of a good president. Yet if the Pentagon was indeed run like a corporation, the board of directors would long time ago have fired all the military brass with their shining medals and ribbons that they award themselves while patting each other on the back..a "good ole boys club" mentality that is not questioned. The only time any one of them get demoted is when they leak something to the press or a mistress...or question the "CEO" in public.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote: Republicans often say that government should be run like a corporation. They tout corporate CEO experience as being a quality of a good president. Yet if the Pentagon was indeed run like a corporation, the board of directors would long time ago have fired all the military brass with their shining medals and ribbons that they award themselves while patting each other on the back..a "good ole boys club" mentality that is not questioned. The only time any one of them get demoted is when they leak something to the press or a mistress...or question the "CEO" in public.
    Schmidt the huge problem is that stations like CNN invite these corrupt assholes all the time so they can convince the public that they run a "clean" show. That is how it works and nobody cares that we spent a TRILLION in Afghanistan; results unknown; guess what is wrong with this country? Excuses, excuses and of course "god's" will; and this "imaginary" thing "blesses" America?. You must be kidding!!