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What Price Israel?

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  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    The satirical Onion posted an article:

    The Onion, March 18, 2015: U.S. Worried About Living Up To Netanyahu Campaign Promises

    WASHINGTON—Saying the Likud Party leader had set Israeli citizens’ expectations extremely high in the run up to his reelection Tuesday, top-level sources expressed their worry Wednesday about whether the United States would actually be able to live up to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s campaign promises. “Given the ambitious list of security and spending initiatives that Netanyahu guaranteed Israeli voters on the campaign trail, I think it could be very difficult for the U.S. to come through on all of them; the pressure’s really going to be on America not to disappoint his constituents,” said U.S. State Department spokesman Eric Patel

    We can laugh at the humor in it, but much of it is painfully true. According to this Bloomberg article,

    Bloomberg, Israel Lobbies for More Missile Defense Funds Than Obama Sought

    (Bloomberg) -- For the second consecutive year, Israeli officials have asked the U.S. Congress to add more than $300 million to President Barack Obama’s budget request for their nation’s missile-defense programs.The $317 million wish list that Israeli’s missile defense chief gave lawmakers this month is in addition to the $158 million the Pentagon proposed for the fiscal year that starts Oct. 1. The Israeli request would provide first-time production funds for two programs -- David’s Sling and Arrow-3.

    For the current fiscal year, Congress added about $347 million for missile defense programs, including Iron Dome, bringing the total to $620 million. Lawmakers also approved an extra $225 million in emergency fiscal 2014 funds for Iron Dome. The White House and the Defense Department raised no objections to the added money.

    Since 2011, Congress has appropriated more than $1.2 billion for Iron Dome, which is designed to intercept and destroy rockets capable of flying as far as 70 kilometers (44 miles).


    Note that this is on top of the $3.1 billion that we give each year in aid to Israel and another $3.8 billion in loan guarantees. And now with Netanyahu stating that he will oppose any two state solution to the Palestinian problem (which goes against both Democrat and Republican stated positions), it looks like our Congress is going to have to do a flip flop and get in line with Netanyuhu's campaign promises. After all AIPEC would expect nothing less.

    You can count on Republicans to lead the way on this. What Israel wants...Israel gets. I'm sure we can cut some Food Stamp or Education programs here in the USA to come up with the offset to pay for it.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote: The satirical Onion posted an article:

    The Onion, March 18, 2015: U.S. Worried About Living Up To Netanyahu Campaign Promises

    WASHINGTON—Saying the Likud Party leader had set Israeli citizens’ expectations extremely high in the run up to his reelection Tuesday, top-level sources expressed their worry Wednesday about whether the United States would actually be able to live up to Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s campaign promises. “Given the ambitious list of security and spending initiatives that Netanyahu guaranteed Israeli voters on the campaign trail, I think it could be very difficult for the U.S. to come through on all of them; the pressure’s really going to be on America not to disappoint his constituents,” said U.S. State Department spokesman Eric Patel

    We can laugh at the humor in it, but much of it is painfully true. According to this Bloomberg article,

    Bloomberg, Israel Lobbies for More Missile Defense Funds Than Obama Sought

    (Bloomberg) -- For the second consecutive year, Israeli officials have asked the U.S. Congress to add more than $300 million to President Barack Obama’s budget request for their nation’s missile-defense programs.The $317 million wish list that Israeli’s missile defense chief gave lawmakers this month is in addition to the $158 million the Pentagon proposed for the fiscal year that starts Oct. 1. The Israeli request would provide first-time production funds for two programs -- David’s Sling and Arrow-3.

    For the current fiscal year, Congress added about $347 million for missile defense programs, including Iron Dome, bringing the total to $620 million. Lawmakers also approved an extra $225 million in emergency fiscal 2014 funds for Iron Dome. The White House and the Defense Department raised no objections to the added money.

    Since 2011, Congress has appropriated more than $1.2 billion for Iron Dome, which is designed to intercept and destroy rockets capable of flying as far as 70 kilometers (44 miles).


    Note that this is on top of the $3.1 billion that we give each year in aid to Israel and another $3.8 billion in loan guarantees. And now with Netanyahu stating that he will oppose any two state solution to the Palestinian problem (which goes against both Democrat and Republican stated positions), it looks like our Congress is going to have to do a flip flop and get in line with Netanyuhu's campaign promises. After all AIPEC would expect nothing less.

    You can count on Republicans to lead the way on this. What Israel wants...Israel gets. I'm sure we can cut some Food Stamp or Education programs here in the USA to come up with the offset to pay for it.
    The more we "give" Israel the more we irritate their neighbors; the only effect will be more wars in the area. I absolutely do not understand our position; Sweden could ask for the same thing with Russia as neighbors etc. Each country on this world should be independant; why do we protect a select few? Give the Palestinians the same thing; why not? Sounds nuts, but we gave billions to Saddam and Maliki as well Egypt etc. I guess we are the "hypocrites" of the world.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Dutch is right..... I say: F___ Israel. They are not civil. They're not happy with all of the land given to them (constantly trying to steal more land). They are a primary reason for middle east tensions. They slaughter Palestinians and don't treat them fairly because they think they are right and superior. Not deserving of a damned dime in my opinion. Future money should be loaded with conditions. Not a solution but a step in the right direction. I wouldn't give them a dime. Missile defense systems ? Yes we have much hardware and software, would you like to buy some ? Cash in advance.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Perhaps if we didn't meddle or so they say, in their elective process maybe BeBe would not have won, but at any rate the voters of Israel have spoken , and we should respect that ,irrespective of how we feel about the man, is it racist,I don't know, Jews don't like Arabs and Arabs don't like Jews, are they both racists? Israel doesn't want them to have a country of their own and the Arabs want to wipe away the country of Israel, What to do,? Their mutual distrust is way off the charts, both claim religious prerogative and biblical history to be where they are, both are of different cultures spawned from the same roots. yet both claim superiority , this is a train wreck waiting to happen and there are no diplomats or statesman smart enough or wise enough to figure this out, so they attempt to take sides and one or the other tries to bully the other into accepting a truce that neither side wants or will abide by..
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: Since 2011, Congress has appropriated more than $1.2 billion for Iron Dome, which is designed to intercept and destroy rockets capable of flying as far as 70 kilometers (44 miles).

    Note that this is on top of the $3.1 billion that we give each year in aid to Israel and another $3.8 billion in loan guarantees. And now with Netanyahu stating that he will oppose any two state solution to the Palestinian problem (which goes against both Democrat and Republican stated positions), it looks like our Congress is going to have to do a flip flop and get in line with Netanyuhu's campaign promises. After all AIPEC would expect nothing less.
    The amount of money we give to Israel so they can kill an untold of number of people really does frustrate me. It frustrates me even more that we basically single handily fund a military whose Prime Minister blatantly disrespects our President day in and day out.

    The American government has done this to themselves. We provide the weapons, money, and technology for Israel to continue their apartheid ad infinitum and Netanyahu takes full advantage of our generosity. Netanyahu said what everyone else already knew--that he has no interest in peace. He would much rather keep the Palestinians under his total control for as long as possible.

    I actually think Netanyahu's actions will wind up biting him in the ass in the long run, though. The international community is already fed up with Israels behavior and the United States has been the only country willing to back them up in the Security Council. I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama Administration begins to take Palestinian proposals in the United Nations more seriously and force Netanyahu to come back to the table that way. If he loses the US then he loses everything. Maybe it's time for us say enough is enough and use the threat of withholding the fancy bombs and missiles he loves so much as a bargaining chip.
    Schmidt Wrote: You can count on Republicans to lead the way on this. What Israel wants...Israel gets. I'm sure we can cut some Food Stamp or Education programs here in the USA to come up with the offset to pay for it.
    Isn't it sad how Republicans have no problem spending billions upon billions of dollars on war, weapons of war, and funding other countries wars, but recoil at the thought of spending a fraction of that money feeding hungry Americans?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    johnnycee Wrote: Perhaps if we didn't meddle or so they say, in their elective process maybe BeBe would not have won, but at any rate the voters of Israel have spoken , and we should respect that ,irrespective of how we feel about the man, is it racist,I don't know, Jews don't like Arabs and Arabs don't like Jews, are they both racists? Israel doesn't want them to have a country of their own and the Arabs want to wipe away the country of Israel, What to do,? Their mutual distrust is way off the charts, both claim religious prerogative and biblical history to be where they are, both are of different cultures spawned from the same roots. yet both claim superiority , this is a train wreck waiting to happen and there are no diplomats or statesman smart enough or wise enough to figure this out, so they attempt to take sides and one or the other tries to bully the other into accepting a truce that neither side wants or will abide by..
    Problem with your scenario is that before Israel was given all of the damned land, the country was called Palestine. Now they don't want to give them their own country. Hey dumb asses it's like telling the American Indians that they shouldn't have their own country. That's Bull$h!T
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Well said Tony!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    TJ Wrote: Problem with your scenario is that before Israel was given all of the damned land, the country was called Palestine. Now they don't want to give them their own country. Hey dumb asses it's like telling the American Indians that they shouldn't have their own country. That's Bull$h!T
    I would venture to guess that a good chunk of Republicans aren't aware of this fact. It's much easier for them to believe that Jews have always been in control of that land and those pesky Palestinians who keep complaining about apartheid should just shut up and bow down to Netanyahu.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    This land was inhabited by the Hebrew people before there were Muslims, before them there was a variety of different peoples with different cultures who lived there, the country's borders has changed about as often as they were conquered by a host of conquerors, including the Mongols, so who was here first seems to be irrelevant. The clash between these cultures has been going on for thousands of years and it doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon, Israel has stated they would accept a State as long as Hamas was not part of the governing body or sanctioned by the government, I have not heard of a counter offer from them which addresses this issue , so we will have to maintain a wait and see posture.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    johnnycee Wrote: Israel has stated they would accept a State as long as Hamas was not part of the governing body or sanctioned by the government, I have not heard of a counter offer from them which addresses this issue , so we will have to maintain a wait and see posture.
    You're joking, right? Did you have this opinion before Hamas was democratically elected by the people living in the Gaza Strip? Can you expound upon Israel's arguments justifying their apartheid before Hamas won democratic elections in 2006, fifty years after Israel was literally given the land?

    Israel has always found a way to subjugate the Palestinians. It's not like they had a change of heart when Hamas won an election. They are just greedy assholes who would rather steal as much land as they possibly can instead of compromising with the people they stole the land from.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Why would that be considered joking , the Prime Minister said that because of Hamas and it's terror tactics against Israel this would be a major stumbling block to any talks between the two of them. I am trying to have an open mind about this, both sides can make the claim of persecution by each other, factions within the Gaza Strip have launched attacks Israel's citizens via rockets, mortars and suicide killers and Israel responded with heavy force killing civilians as well as suspected terrorists, so if I were the governing body of Palestine I would acquiesce to that point and let Israel make the next move, it's not as if Hamas will go away if they do that. But it will make Israel back up their words with action, hey it would be start, there is nothing to lose if they did that, after all they could always fall back to where they were before the move.
  • Independent
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    [url=https://www.democratichub.com/user/78196.aspx">johnnycee[/url] Wrote: This land was inhabited by the Hebrew people before there were Muslims, before them there was a variety of different peoples with different cultures who lived there, the country's borders has changed about as often as they were conquered by a host of conquerors, including the Mongols, so who was here first seems to be irrelevant. The clash between these cultures has been going on for thousands of years and it doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon, Israel has stated they would accept a State as long as Hamas was not part of the governing body or sanctioned by the government, I have not heard of a counter offer from them which addresses this issue , so we will have to maintain a wait and see posture.

    The land that has gone by various names has been inhabited by semitic tribes before there were jews or Muslims. It is disingenuous to base claims of territory upon so-called holy writings which ascribe a particular semitic nomadic tribe to ownership while dismissing others. That other tribes adopted a different religion is irrelevant to the fact that these related tribes gave been there for millennia.

    As for Israel saying they will accept a Palestinian state without Hamas I call bullshit. Israel needs to be pushed back to the borders established in 1948. The various Arab states that crapped on the Palestinians need to contribute their share as well.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    Haaertz, March 20, 2015: Republican U.S. Speaker John Boehner to visit Israel 10 days after Netanyahu’s victory

    Speaker of the United States House of Representatives John Boehner is expected to visit Israel in about a week. Boehner, a member of the Republican Party, is U.S. President Barack Obama’s arch rival and the man who invited Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to make his controversial speech in Congress. Senior Israeli officials who asked to remain anonymous said Boehner will begin his visit, which has not yet been announced publicly, on March 31, heading a delegation of Republican Congress members. The officials said the final agreement for the visit was given during Netanyahu’s trip to the United States some two weeks ago.... it will be a sort of “victory celebration” for Netanyahu and he is expected to be received with great honor.

    So John Boehner and his contingent of Israel Firsters is going to Israel to receive the accolades of the Israeli people and the Likud Party. Maybe they'll extend an invitation to him to address the Israeli Knesset.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Schmidt Wrote: Haaertz, March 20, 2015: Republican U.S. Speaker John Boehner to visit Israel 10 days after Netanyahu’s victory

    Speaker of the United States House of Representatives John Boehner is expected to visit Israel in about a week. Boehner, a member of the Republican Party, is U.S. President Barack Obama’s arch rival and the man who invited Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to make his controversial speech in Congress. Senior Israeli officials who asked to remain anonymous said Boehner will begin his visit, which has not yet been announced publicly, on March 31, heading a delegation of Republican Congress members. The officials said the final agreement for the visit was given during Netanyahu’s trip to the United States some two weeks ago.... it will be a sort of “victory celebration” for Netanyahu and he is expected to be received with great honor.

    So John Boehner and his contingent of Israel Firsters is going to Israel to receive the accolades of the Israeli people and the Likud Party. Maybe they'll extend an invitation to him to address the Israeli Knesset.
    Schmidt, this again is undermining Obama; sorry to say Obama should as President have the right to stop him from doing so. In other words every Senator etc. can go there and preach what "he" wants, which may not be in line with our "official" foreign policies, which should be centrally managed by the appointed department under control of our President. As I said in my other thread; if you give them (GOP) a "finger" then they take the "whole hand" ( a Dutch saying)