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Senate Republicans Do Netanyahu's Bidding; Attempt to Sabotage Iran Deal

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    johnnycee Wrote: We were discussing this agreement with deceit in our hearts and hoping that the Iranians would not notice it, Whether or not Congress is supposed to sanction this or not,it still does not mean that we enter into talks with deceit in mind from the start. I am certain Iran would not be in discussion with us if they had known that the agreement would only exist for less then 2 years, then all bets are off. Some call these Congressmen who signed this letter as traitors and liken their acts as treason,when in fact they were only shedding light on a possible untruth in these discussions that would affect the security of this Nation, along with other Nations, when the facts came out that we were not acting in good faith.
    J.C. this is still total B.S. You can not have a "rogue" bunch of people do things on their own, while there are strict rules, like Jared says, who can bring things to the outside to deliver our governments postion; this is unheard of in any government. Even if the government makes mistakes, like Bush did many times, it is then still a "country's" decission to the outside world. All governments make mistakes; that is nothing new. But if everyone decides things on their own then we loose all control or are seen as a bunch of idiots in the "outside" world.
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    Again I must stress the fact that the Administration headed into these talks with a express purpose to deceive, regardless of who blew the whistle,these Senators cannot be described as rogue when they expose a fallacy in the manner in which these talks are being conducted by the Executive Branch, and I say again , what would Iran do or not do when they realized that truth. You cannot believe that the "Rules" would condone deceit , the very nature of these talks steeped in deceit would not be allowed and according to your logic as long as the deceit was not uncovered it's okay
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    johnnycee Wrote: Again I must stress the fact that the Administration headed into these talks with a express purpose to deceive, regardless of who blew the whistle,these Senators cannot be described as rogue when they expose a fallacy in the manner in which these talks are being conducted by the Executive Branch, and I say again , what would Iran do or not do when they realized that truth. You cannot believe that the "Rules" would condone deceit , the very nature of these talks steeped in deceit would not be allowed and according to your logic as long as the deceit was not uncovered it's okay
    You are allowing your hatred of this President to cloud your thoughts. Can you provide a modicum of proof that these talks, which have been going on for years, have been conducted with "a express [sic] purpose to deceive"? Straw man arguments are your forte, but this one is kind of out there even for you...

    I encourage you to study up on these talks a little more and not just repeat what your favorite right wing media outlets that you supposedly don't watch tell you. You might finally figure out that everything you are saying about how foreign policy is conducted in America isn't really accurate.

    If you actually took some time to do some research and not just repeat Benjamin Netanyahu's and Congressional Republicans talking points verbatim then you would realize that all major nations in the international community are taking part in these talks. They were conducted in secret, as ALL major international negotiations are conducted. These talks have been going on for years and are extremely complex. To suggest these talks are somehow different than any other negotiation our country has ever conducted is a bold faced lie and you know it.

    I remind you that Iran is a little smarter than you are giving them credit for. Many top leaders of their government went to some of the best universities in the United States. I encourage you to stop trying to put forward this notion that they are just a bunch of ignorant neanderthals who don't know how to conduct international diplomacy or comprehend American politics.

    And I'm still waiting for you to provide one example of when the Congress ever voided an international agreement immediately after a President left office. All you need to find is one in our two hundred plus year history... I wish you the best of luck.
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    But JC knows for sure that the freshman Bagger Senator is an honest, truthfull, patriotic 'merician because he authored this "memo" to the leaders in Iran, for the sole purpose of informing them how the USA cannot be trusted. Too bad they are actually a lot more informed and educated on our constitution than most of the members of Corgress are!

    What a world we live in. Make the evil, anti-Christian, socialist who lives in the White House look bad at every turn to boost the 1%'s agenda. After all, that guy who claims to be a real 'merican is actually only 3/5 ths of a real 'merican anyhow!
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    pgr Wrote: But JC knows for sure that the freshman Bagger Senator is an honest, truthfull, patriotic 'merician because he authored this "memo" to the leaders in Iran, for the sole purpose of informing them how the USA cannot be trusted. Too bad they are actually a lot more informed and educated on our constitution than most of the members of Corgress are!
    Don't forget how God fearing the esteemed junior Senator from Arkansas is. We all know how Jesus instructed his followers to be bullies and tell the entire world how to do everything. And if they don't then Jesus instructed his followers to wage endless wars on a credit card and bankrupt the nation while ignoring the millions of poor people living on the streets throughout the country.
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    pgr Wrote: But JC knows for sure that the freshman Bagger Senator is an honest, truthfull, patriotic 'merician because he authored this "memo" to the leaders in Iran, for the sole purpose of informing them how the USA cannot be trusted. Too bad they are actually a lot more informed and educated on our constitution than most of the members of Corgress are!
    Don't forget how God fearing the esteemed junior Senator from Arkansas is. We all know how Jesus instructed his followers to be bullies and tell the entire world how to do everything. And if they don't then Jesus instructed his followers to wage endless wars on a credit card and bankrupt the nation while ignoring the millions of poor people living on the streets throughout the country.
    Jared, what happened to you? Sorry the world is only 6000 years old; ever seen a dinosaur bully? If your "Jesus" would have lived today do you think he would have gotten a credit card by just bumming around with another bunch non-workers? I bet this guy ate at the jewish salvation army of that time, without leaving a tip..
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    Your comments are meaningless to the real question of whether or not we are bargaining in good faith, and whether or not the Congress ever voided any international treaty is again meaningless because that is not the question, so stop dancing as if you are part of the RiverDance troupe and decide whether or not that the deceit employed by this Administration has caused some serious harm to not only this discussion but future discussions with other Middle East Countries as well.
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    johnnycee Wrote: Your comments are meaningless to the real question of whether or not we are bargaining in good faith, and whether or not the Congress ever voided any international treaty is again meaningless because that is not the question,
    I'm sorry, but I don't recall ever hearing about someone giving you the esteemed honor of determining 'the real' questions in this or any debate. How convenient for you to ask a question that has never, ever been answered in our nations history and then say your question is 'the real' and only question.

    Was it Rush or Hannity who convinced you that this was a good debate tactic? Or did you, as you are wont to do, think of this right wing talking point that is spread across all of our nations airwaves and the internet all by your lonesome? If so then congratulations! You really need start getting paid for your never ending right-wing talking point prophecies because you honestly have a gift.

    Your unwillingness to answer any direct question someone asks of you that actually CAN be answered and ability to hijack a debate under your terms is second to none. I applaud your never ending prowess to dodge direct questions that you refuse to answer and attempts to tell everyone else what 'the real' issue is about. If there were an award for this high honor then you would assuredly receive it.
    johnnycee Wrote:so stop dancing as if you are part of the RiverDance troupe and decide whether or not that the deceit employed by this Administration has caused some serious harm to not only this discussion but future discussions with other Middle East Countries as well.
    Who the hell are you to determine if these talks were conducted in good faith or not? Who anointed you the decider of that question?

    People like you honestly make me sick. You bash our President on a daily basis and then insist you are the 'independent' ones who just happen to see the light. If only we listened to God fearing, war mongering men like you then the world would be a much better place, right?

    I don't bat an eye when a Republican bashes our President on a daily basis, but I can't stand it when a supposedly 'independent' person consistently pushes far right talking points and then hides behind the banner of an 'independent and wise thinker.' Repeating far right talking points, verbatim, on a daily basis, is not 'independent.' It's proof that you are a far-right zealot.

    We tried war for sport in 2003. How the hell did that turn our for us? Is the world a safer place after we invaded a non-combatant country that did absolutely nothing to us and usher in a decade of war in one of the most tumultuous regions in the world? Do you think the world would be safer if we invaded yet another non-combatant country that just so happens to be three times the size of the last country we invaded in one of the most tumultuous regions in the world this time around? Why is war always the first answer for people like you? Haven't you learned a damn thing after the Iraq fiasco?

    You're too old to be shipped off to war for no damn reason, but I and millions of other Americans are not. We don't feel like fighting another war to make war hawks like you sleep better at night. You want to fight another war? Go ahead and sign up and good riddance. If not, then stop trying to convince the rest of us that war is the only answer.
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    I am not bashing anyone let alone the President, I merely asked a question regarding the possible deceitful manner that those who are entrusted with bargaining in good faith have not done so, and apparently you can't or won't answer the question either, why. As I stated previously stated I was on a contract negotiating team and when the other party was caught in an untruth or worse, not bargaining in good faith, it usually caused us to walk away from the table until trust could be restored,or the lie acknowledged. Now this was only labor negotiations and not something as serious as nuclear weapons with possible grim possibilities for all,so to me trust and honesty would be paramount, regardless of party affiliations. Can you agree with that?
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    Let me try get back on track. On March 9, Iran’s U.N. mission circulated the following press release detailing Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif’s reaction to the GOP letter on a nuclear deal.

    Part II: Iran Responds to GOP Letter: http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2015/mar/09/part-ii-iran-responds-gop-letter#.VP5kJS2c-O0.facebook

    I encourage everyone to read the response carefully if you haven't already done so. And if anyone is wondering about Dr. Zaeif, this should enlighten you.

    From Wikipedia:
    Dr. Zarif was born on 7 January 1960 in Tehran.[3][4] According to The New Republic, Zarif is born to an "affluent, religiously devout and politically conservative merchant family in Tehran". He was educated at the Alavi School, a private religious institution.[5] Zarif was shielded from TV, radio, and newspapers by his parents as a youth. Instead, he became exposed to revolutionary ideas by reading the books of Ali Shariati and Samad Behrangi.[5]

    At age 17, he left Iran for the United States. Zarif attended Drew College Preparatory School, a private college-preparatory high school located in San Francisco, California.[5] He went on to study at San Francisco State University, from which he gained a BA in International Relations in 1981 and an MA in the same subject in 1982.[6] Following this, Zarif continued his studies at the Graduate School of International Studies (now named the Josef Korbel School of International Studies) at the University of Denver, from which he obtained a second MA in International Relations in 1984 and this was followed by a PhD in International Law and Policy in 1988.[7][8] His thesis was entitled: "Self-Defense in International Law and Policy".[9]
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    It would appear to me that Dr. Zarif is correct in his assessment and is immensely qualified to comment on the US Constitution and International law, and certainly more qualified than many of those jackass Senators that signed the letter. That's what is so embarrassing...being lectured on the facts by an Iranian diplomat and scholar. That's what the pundits at Fox News hate. Dr Zarif doesn't fit the stereotype of the "Fox News Iranian".
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    Help me out here......The Holocaust is middle eastern history. Why am I always bombarded with all this "never forget" nonsense? Many cultures have been "cleansed"
    If you walk down Ventura Blvd in Encino .....you see arabs and Jews living completely harmoniously with one another.....smoking cigars and having cofee with each other outside of their store fronts. Theres also a statue of Itzak Rabin in the courtyard.....Why?
    I don't see a statue of "Sitting Bull"
    Who gives a shit about "what" Israel wants.....has nothing to do with the US Citizen. Israel takes a welfare check from this country just like everyone else.....So shut up and cash that check
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    johnnycee Wrote: I am not bashing anyone let alone the President, I merely asked a question regarding the possible deceitful manner that those who are entrusted with bargaining in good faith have not done so, and apparently you can't or won't answer the question either, why. As I stated previously stated I was on a contract negotiating team and when the other party was caught in an untruth or worse, not bargaining in good faith, it usually caused us to walk away from the table until trust could be restored,or the lie acknowledged. Now this was only labor negotiations and not something as serious as nuclear weapons with possible grim possibilities for all,so to me trust and honesty would be paramount, regardless of party affiliations. Can you agree with that?
    bargaining in good faith...

    an interesting comment. since mrs. bird has been involved in negotiations as a teacher one has heard from her some of the things that go on.

    perhaps we can have a definition of "bargaining in good faith" from jc. all look to gain the best agreement that they can during any negotiation. thus what is "good faith?"

    in the case of iran and the u.s. and the other nations involved in the talks claims of "bad faith" must be substantiated. just saw on a conservative site the usual unsubstantiated claim that obama is negotiating an agreement that he doesn't have the authority to do. really? what evidence is there for that? how many knee-jerk conservatives bleat exceptionalism, "we're #1" rah-rah-ism all while demanding the rest of the world kow-tow to whatever the phucque the united states of america wants? yet, they are now bleating obama doesn't have the authority to put forth any agreement. he most certainly does have authority, as much authority as reagan did with the soviets for example. and, yes, if said agreement requires ratification by the senate they most certainly could refuse to ratify. they should be very careful with that step however as the credibility of the u.s. as the world leader everyone struts around trumpeting could very well suffer. which isn't automatically bad. but i suggest reading jonathan schell's "the seventh decade: the new shape of nuclear danger" for some insight into the whole nuclear mess.
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: Help me out here......The Holocaust is middle eastern history. Why am I always bombarded with all this "never forget" nonsense? Many cultures have been "cleansed"
    If you walk down Ventura Blvd in Encino .....you see arabs and Jews living completely harmoniously with one another.....smoking cigars and having cofee with each other outside of their store fronts. Theres also a statue of Itzak Rabin in the courtyard.....Why?
    I don't see a statue of "Sitting Bull"
    Who gives a shit about "what" Israel wants.....has nothing to do with the US Citizen. Israel takes a welfare check from this country just like everyone else.....So shut up and cash that check
    LA Citizen -- You make a good point. If anyone spends some time looking at the history of the area back to biblical days, one would know that the Muslims and Jews lived peacefully together for hundreds of years, a peace that was only interrupted by the Christian crusaders. Muslims and Jews fought together to repel the Christian invaders. And rightfully so. As I have mentioned in prior posts the indigenous people of the area, call them Jews or Arabs, share the same DNA. They are all Semites. DNA studies done by Jewish researchers to prove the point that the Jewish diaspora have a rightful claim to the "Land of Israel" did indeed show some DNA links with the original inhabitants of the area, but those links were much much weaker than the DNA links of the Arab Semites who never left the land. In other words, if we were to use genetic studies to prove rightful ownership of the land (and I disagree with this premise) then it would show that the Arab Semites have more of a claim to the land than any of the Jewish immigrants from Russia, Ukraine and other European and African nations.

    When Netanyahu speaks of Israel as a "Jewish nation" what he is actually saying is that Israel is an apartheid nation with certain privileges bestowed on Jewish immigrants and are denied to the indigenous Arab Palestinians. In effect Israel has two classes of people. And we Americans that so condemned apartheid in South Africa and in our own country are okay with that in Israel. Jimmy Carter wrote his book, Peace Not Apartheid, a few years ago and was blasted by the Israel Firsters who live in denial. When I have written about this subject in this website, I was also taken to task by all the deniers.

    When you really look at the vocal Netanyahu's supporters in America, I would guess that they do not come so much from the Jewish American population, but rather from the Christian Evangelical/Fundamentalists that believe that the "Land of Israel" needs to be preserved for the Jews for the End of Days Apocalypse. This war that that element of the Christians want is a religious war. It has less to do with nuclear bombs and more to do with the Second Coming of Christ.
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    Let me add a 2007 article by John Basil Utley that should be enlightening:

    AlterNet: America's Armageddonites Push for More War

    I really encourage people to read this article. It was written in 2007 and holds even more true today.
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    Schmidt Wrote: Let me add a 2007 article by John Basil Utley that should be enlightening:

    AlterNet: America's Armageddonites Push for More War

    I really encourage people to read this article. It was written in 2007 and holds even more true today.
    Schmidt, as always you do your research extreemly well; compliments. The only thing I do not understand that there are so many Americans who believe in such pure nonsense and push this as a political agenda. Just for the "humor" a "second" coming of Christ would be a total disaster, Why? he'll be shocked about our cars, planes, I-Pads, internet, weapons, etc.and will become "road" kill in an instance. On top of that there are already thousands of "Jesus's here who indeed think they are that and have the tatoo's to prove it. (except Trump, the tea party members etc.,may be no tatoo's but are they are the real thing!) Wow.