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global warming hoax as mass marketing scheme

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    From my ultra right-wing warming-denier old friend

    And nice winter indeed! Has cost me a couple of $thousand for plowing, roof clearing and extra heating oil.
    Global warming... seriously? I've been hearing about prior local winter chills and storms going back well over a hundred years,
    but then it was simply "weather". Now the story is jet stream displacement plus more atmospheric moisture ...
    but is that all linked to my SUV?

    Seven weeks to go and goodbye to 75; days pass by ever faster, it seems...

    My response to him:
    Your SUV is but a microscopic (or less) factor in a phenomenon of conversion of billions of years of terrestrial carbon accretions (coal, petro) into gases and particulates spewed into the atmosphere within a period of a couple hundred years at most.
    Automotive exhausts of thousands of cars hardly moving during "rush" hour commutes plus coal fired generating plants to day-light-up night, deforestation for heat and cooking which transforms carbon substance into carbon in the atmosphere.
    Global warming a myth? Deglaciation an hallucination? Diminishing arctic ice to the point of open passage this year a lie?
    Well, there's been all kinds of precedents for such left-wing anarchist anti-corporate wingnuts: those who wept and wailed about lead and asbestos and raw sewage into the rivers and harbors and tobacco and the bullshit Cassandras trying to screw up the great American experiment of straight-row constant crop pre-dustbowl farming.
    If the earth were your SUV and there were some evidences of things amiss and there was some possibility that you should change what you're putting into it or how you're operating it, you'd sure as hell take preemptive steps and stops of what even MIGHT be detrimental (especially considered as an addend to natural processes of cyclic detrimentalism as far as the earth itself is concerned).
    Again, if it were regarding erectile dysfunction, a "just might" and the male mass of mankind would boycott the product or procedure, if not attack and destroy the production thereof.
    On what premise is GWD (global warming denial) promulgated and almost preached as if doctrine? Because the automotive industry might emerge from its age of reciprocating engine dynosaur as special creation and do what's already being done which almost every other technology has already done? Revolutionize/modernize?
    Perhaps the petroleum industry would suffer if people drove less or drove less inefficient vehicles? Less profits from gas sales? Then why the hell the drop from upwards toward $4 per gallon not so long ago to just over $2/g now?
    Why, if global warming a hoax and thus who cares what goes up into the atmosphere and is absorbed into the oceans and is apparently, likely, even causing systemic changes (acidity, temperature-species distributions), why are major oil companies conducting R & D on alternatives? Why articles in Forbes now and then extolling the alternative energy (mobile and stationary outputs) of entrepreneurs?
    Doomsdayers may be extremists (eco-millenarians) -- but just on the chance that what our streams of carbon emissions and pollutants and plastics particulates are precipitating as ecological disruption, just on the chance, wouldn't caution be wisdom? Curtailment even potential preservation? Conversion to lesser usage as socio-system and hybrid grid/interfaces as distribution systems for advanced power needs?
    And what, I wonder, do you make of the hoaxers purporting to manufacture those electric vehicles that will so severely cripple the petroleum industry and all that function on drills and fracks and the dividends payable?
    Elon Musk -- radical anti-corporate insurgent. Chevrolet, Toyota, and a couple others (all electrics) now revealed as corporate traitors?
    Maybe warming is a fluctuation, only fractionally influenced by human activities (which include the effects and pollutants and poisons and eutrophications of factory farming.
    Maybe warming isn't, and the glaciers and Arctic are melting and measured temps are climbing because of solar intensity variations or subterranean (magmic) intensifications or surface-ifications undiscovered.
    Proof? Evidence? Even indication?
    There's indication, to say the least, of overall global warming. Regional almost violent variations seem to be part of the package of disruption of climatically established systems, streams, flows, snows, and all.
    Global warming should be beside the point.
    The point is that we need to change our way of living because the planet is already crowded and the extant systems to provide are exploiting the resources which will need increase as the population increases. The developed nations are the overwhelming contributants of causes of ecological disruption. The actual population increase is taking place in few regions of the earth -- those therein almost doomed to the "corrections" of plagues and famines.
    The point is that progress is change. Preventing rivers from catching fire or spreading cholera was progress.
    Preventing clogs of carcinogenic and possibly atmospheric-damaging traffic jams of combustion engines will be not only progress, but highly productive for industries to make a whole new generation of automotives (and, with the cahoots of regulatory legislation and inspection) which will force the older cars into the crushers and the public to purchase the new.
    The point is that "global warming" may end up being the most efficacious marketing of new system/efficient/resource-saving cars and appliances and water usage and electrical collection and so much more.
    Global warming a hoax?
    Global warming, the most cleverly hidden and insidiously effective way to revive the economy by condemning or pricing out of maintenance the past and forcing the new of everything upon the consumer-public of the whole world's developed nations.
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    Schneider, nice piece. But I'm of the opinion that regardless of what you mention the polution will continue in one form or another. The more humans on this planet the more waste; it is as simple as that. Every human produces waste; tons of it. You can not compare that with animals; their waste is naturally recycled. Since humans got out of their "animal" status, the waste started. Regardless of other inventions to reduce emissions, the waste continues; even "solar cells" production create waste when they are manufactured or discarded; everything on this globe will have a "useful" life and gets turned into waste. Natural resources will eventually be depleted or more difficult to find. Also do not forget the "greed" factor will play a huge role; oil companies will not give up; money rules etc.
    No, the human race will not change quickly because of "comfort levels" which we want to sustain; slum area's are here to stay and produce in most cases the most waste. Polution of this globe will continue; just the "plastic" waste floating in our oceans gets bigger by the year and will kill of all aquatic life etc.
    So I'm not too optimistic; because it is a huge complex issue, which can not be solved by technology only. The damage is already done.
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    schneider and dutch:


    Good thoughts on global warming.

    One of our local newspapers recently published an article about how to minimize some of the effects of global warming. My summary of that story also includes a link to the article in the newspaper:

    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2015/02/oh-poop.html

    In the very near future, a movie titled " Merchants of Doubt" will be playing in theaters. You can view the trailer for the movie at the link below:

    http://act.forecastthefacts.org/signup/buzz_mod/?t=3&akid=701.72727.Psnqj5

    Like other thoughtful and timely movies, it probably won't be in theaters for very long.

    On the other hand, if you want to see "Hot Tub Time Machine 2" or "Spongebob the movie" sponge out of water" your local theater probably has lots of shows every day (my theater has 6 shows a day for each of them).
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    that guy in Arizona Wrote:
    In the very near future, a movie titled " Merchants of Doubt" will be playing in theaters. You can view the trailer for the movie at the link below:

    http://act.forecastthefacts.org/signup/buzz_mod/?t=3&akid=701.72727.Psnqj5

    Like other thoughtful and timely movies, it probably won't be in theaters for very long.

    Great link, thanks. Have to keep a watch for this one. Noticed mention of FOOD, INC. which was another eye-opener.
    Blog article also interesting. Good thread with food for thought from all.
    Seems when you think one solution works, another set of issues crops up to refute it. And I also agree it is not something we will see resolved, or even really addressed properly, in our lifetimes.
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    Conservatives say there is no global warming. They do this because the worst thing ever would be anything that might slow down corporations from maximum profits all day every day. They offer stupid comments like it's cold out isn't it ? If they weren't dodging the truth because they know who their backers are..... they might use Google to see if half of Greenland has melted. If much ice in cold nations or the Arctic or Antarctic are in fact melting. We're screwing this planet and because money is in the equation it probably won't even slow down until it's far beyond any repair.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote: Schneider, nice piece. But I'm of the opinion that regardless of what you mention the polution will continue in one form or another. The more humans on this planet the more waste; it is as simple as that. Every human produces waste; tons of it. You can not compare that with animals; their waste is naturally recycled. Since humans got out of their "animal" status, the waste started. Regardless of other inventions to reduce emissions, the waste continues; even "solar cells" production create waste when they are manufactured or discarded; everything on this globe will have a "useful" life and gets turned into waste. Natural resources will eventually be depleted or more difficult to find. Also do not forget the "greed" factor will play a huge role; oil companies will not give up; money rules etc.
    No, the human race will not change quickly because of "comfort levels" which we want to sustain; slum area's are here to stay and produce in most cases the most waste. Polution of this globe will continue; just the "plastic" waste floating in our oceans gets bigger by the year and will kill of all aquatic life etc.
    So I'm not too optimistic; because it is a huge complex issue, which can not be solved by technology only. The damage is already done.
    Amen Dutch, global warming does have its place for sure, BUT did you or anyone else see that MASSIVE, HUMONGOUS ball of T-R-A-S-H floating in the ocean when all the efforts were being made to find one of those downed or lost airplanes? It was unreal and I must add the word sickening. This huge globule was miles deep and miles long. Just think about it, this is a totally human-creation, nothing but years of people saying "If I dump this waste in the ocean, it will simply disappear". Obviously they were wrong.
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    worth watching in its entirety is Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse's response to Senator Jim Inhofe ..

    the short version:

    "you can believe NASA, the Navy, religious groups, corporate America, or the scientific community ..

    or..

    you can believe the senator with the snowball"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTdpdFUTyqs
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    [url=https://www.democratichub.com/user/71121.aspx">that guy in Arizona[/url] Wrote: worth watching in its entirety is Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse's response to Senator Jim Inhofe ..

    the short version:

    "you can believe NASA, the Navy, religious groups, corporate America, or the scientific community ..

    or..

    you can believe the senator with the snowball"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTdpdFUTyqs

    We gotta be the laughing stock of the world.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    that guy in Arizona Wrote: schneider and dutch:


    Good thoughts on global warming.

    One of our local newspapers recently published an article about how to minimize some of the effects of global warming. My summary of that story also includes a link to the article in the newspaper:

    http://tohell-andback.blogspot.com/2015/02/oh-poop.html

    In the very near future, a movie titled " Merchants of Doubt" will be playing in theaters. You can view the trailer for the movie at the link below:

    http://act.forecastthefacts.org/signup/buzz_mod/?t=3&akid=701.72727.Psnqj5

    Like other thoughtful and timely movies, it probably won't be in theaters for very long.

    On the other hand, if you want to see "Hot Tub Time Machine 2" or "Spongebob the movie" sponge out of water" your local theater probably has lots of shows every day (my theater has 6 shows a day for each of them).

    The electric bill that I got in the mail a few days ago was $80 higher than the one a got a month ago, which happened to be the highest bill I have received in the last 5 years.

    August was the hottest month that Tucson has ever experienced, and it is worse in Phoenix.

    Phoenix has relentlessly baked for months. In July, it clinched its hottest month on record. Then August topped that and became the new hottest month.

    The back-to-back records propelled the country’s sixth-largest city to its hottest summer (June through August) on record by a wide margin. The summer finished 1.6 degrees above the previous high mark.

    The scorching heat in Phoenix and other parts of the desert Southwest comes as several other parts of the Lower 48 also registered their hottest summers.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-low_gfx-virus-tracker%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-top-table-low_gfx-virus-tracker%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

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    But yeah who in the government cares about "global warming" ; I guess "global money stealing" has an higher priority; ask Trump; He needs an "polisher" to clean up his "golden toilet. That is much more important.
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    We've had good discussions on climate change on this website in the past, but I suppose like everything else in the Trump era, we are consumed by what Trump says and does every day. Trump is a distraction from many of the important issues of the day. Even the Covid-19 pandemic seems to have a back seat to whatever outrageous things Trump is saying on the day which the media follows obediently.

    The media (MSNBC and CNN) doesn't have to cover Trump's every move. Why do we have to watch him going up and down the stairway to Air Force One? And why cover his shouting impromptu "news conferences" from where ever he is leaving from or arriving? Sheesh, it's not like he has anything new to say.

    Anyway, getting back to the subject of climate change, as we have discussed, climate change is causing mass migrations of peoples that in turn are causing racial and ethnic strife in areas not usually used to it. Even Sweden is not immune from civil unrest as reported by ABC:

    "STOCKHOLM -- Far-right activists burned a Quran in the southern Swedish city of Malmo, sparking riots and unrest after more than 300 people gathered to protest, police said Saturday.

    "Rioters set fires and threw objects at police and rescue services Friday night, slightly injuring several police officers and leading to the detention of about 15 people.

    "The violence followed the burning Friday afternoon of a Quran, near a predominantly migrant neighborhood, that was carried out by far-right activists and filmed and posted online, according to the TT news agency."

    The migrations from countries affected by drought, floods and war to to more affluent countries leads to inequality as the new immigrants are slow to assimilate. Europe is feeling the effects of migration from the Africa as well as the Middle East (Syria). The United States, of course, has contended with migrations from Central America.

    It gives prominence to white nationalist movements and opportunist demagogues like Trump. We are not that welcoming to "the other" despite what we say on the Statue of Liberty -- give us your tired and poor, etc. No it doesn't work that way now.

    As the effects of climate change worsen especially for the marginalized in society, the more affluent will not be immune. Civil unrest and wars will become increasingly a part of our daily lives in the years and decades ahead. It may be too late to stop the effects of climate change, and Trump's actions to undo everything Obama did to help mitigate the effects means we will reach a tipping point sooner.

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    Yes Schmidt, in the Netherlands this also has become an huge problem with all the influx of these "migrants". It used to be an very "clean/neat" society, forget that now. The strange thing is that the migrants are mostly "men". Indeed it is ruining the western way of life and causes the same thing as here. Also the "killing" and "raping" is increasing. Guess what; who started all of this? Yes, the US and its ally Israel who put gasoline on the fire with all their middle east wars. Thank you Bush and others.
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    Dutch -- We discussed this before. But the "Arab Spring" civil unrest and migrations had more to do with climate change than "American imperialism". The war in Iraq is on us, but much of the civil unrest in France, for example, is a result of North Africans (Algerians) immigrants failure to assimilate into French society as "equals".

    French Ghettos, Police Violence and Racism

    The above article is from 2005, but nothing much has changed in French society. France is not unique in this regard.

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    Yes "climate change is now very clear to observe; the fires in California and Oregon are the worst we ever had. Also I noticed that here in FL we never had so much heat in the summer months as well longer periods of drought.

    But yeah if you select an asshole President who only cares about how much money he can steal and steps out of all world agreements about health and climate and drops all environmental rules and pollution norms then this is the result.

    Let the stupid deplorables elect him again then this whole country will become an polluted mess and will be on fire. Let's also drill in the protected natural parks and use that oil as well to pollute us a bit more. Where once the buffalo roamed then look now at old rusty drilling rigs which is such an beautiful sight. Sorry to say, that is what you get if the red necks get it their way and elect an dumb ass bully because they love to get an"red" cap for 15 dollars. Brains are an lost commodity in this country. Enjoy your campfires; forget cigarettes; just inhale the smoke from the fires, that is so much better for your health. Enjoy!