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Why not just blockade ISIS until they starve?

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  • Independent
    Massachusetts
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    Why do I bring this up? Why do I bring these situations up? We'll get to why. First the situations. (and second and third and then the why one).


    Back during the Pacific Theater of the 2nd World War, even as Japan had been functionally defeated -- its air force all but nonexistent and its fleet all but sunk . . . . . . how many died in our assaults on the Pacific islands such as Iwo Jima. There were the remnant Japs up in their caves, writing their letters home. And we landed, sometimes from the outset in problems of soft sand and mired manouvers. And we then proceeded to charge uphill with the Japs firing downhill. And how many of ours died, so exposed to observation and aiming of bullets from those above in the labyrinths and concealments of the hilltops? And for what??
    What threat those enemies essentially trapped in their holes in the grounds of the isolated islands ??
    What a waste of our men who could have just sat offshore in the ships that had brought them while the Japs starved and thirsted and wrote home and then either surrendered or committed "bullet Seppuku" (used to be done by slitting one's belly).

    Normandy Beach. A veritable cliff from the beach up to the land. Heavily fortified and manned and weaponed by the enemy. And we choose to launch our landing there???? Bad enough climbing up against the flow of bullets and flame throwers down upon our guys. But consider that prior to our landing on the "beach", the whole swath had been quite comprehensively barriered with various devices to prevent landing craft from getting close enough to shore that a goodly number of soldiers drowned before they even had the glory to be shot down.
    For what purpose the sacrifice of so many sent directy into a slaughter paradigm. In that the Germans had so significantly expected and impeded the landing at Normandy, why didn't we suddeny invade elsewhere where there were not cliff-top bunkers and those amassed therein, waiting, aiming, shooting. Why wasn't saturation-striation strafing and bombing done prior to the landing to at least depopulate the cliff-tops?
    And what was gained at that point of an essentially defeated, demilitarized Germany whose infiltration of France would have begun to hunger and thirst and head back to what was left of der Vaterland??
    Our guys could have just sat offshore crammed in the ships and at least had coffee and cigarettes while the Germans perched atop the precipice waited in vain.

    Again to the Pacific and Japan and a country defeated with no military materiel left and a decimated male population and our dropping atomic weapons upon two civilian cities was because (supposedly -- and this has been questioned) the Emperor refused to relinquish his ultimate emperorship and thus we'd have to invade Japan and far more of our soldiers would have died than those incinerated by the bombs and inconvenienced by the lingering deaths by radiation poisoning even after the 3rd degree burns scabbed over the kids and women.
    For what purpose would we have had to INVADE JAPAN??? Because Hiro Hito said "I wanna still be Emperor"?
    What would have been done -- what would Japan have done . . had we just sat a bunch of ships offshore and waited until the populace hungered and thirsted sufficiently to convince him to step down? Before they tore him down and tore him apart?

    SO WHY DO I BRING ALL THIS UP ?
    In the latest issue of THE WEEK there's a little article entitled "A looming offensive in Iraq". It concerns retaking "the sprawling city of Mosul from the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. A Central Command official said U. S. advisers will train the 25,000 Iraqi and Kurdish soldiers needed to assault Iraq's second-largest city."
    So much for what the Iraq War accomplished and our betraying the trust Saddam had in his continued proxy-vs-Islamic-extremisim-favored position as Our (U. S.) guy in the Middle East. ("our bastard -- the enemy of our enemy is our friend" etc. Rumsfeld making nice with Saddam, virals, bios, conventionals, etc.) supplied (do a little research in to Reagan-era U. S. Iraq relations).
    The WEEK article continues, "The Iraqis [supposedly -- until our own boots are on the ground with them and dying with them] will have to fight house to house, just as U. S. forces did in Fallujah in 2004. Nearly 100 Americans died in that battle, and 600 were wounded. The bloodshed in Mosul, five times larger than Fallujah will surely be greater."
    For what purpose such carnage even if it doesn't (hah) come to involve our own troop [sic]? A Geneva-oblivious (even humanitarian-oblivious) force of psychotics ensconced in a large city and anyone launches into it a force to drive them out? A bit too late? They're already there!!!! And "built-in". And if we don't drive them out, what's going to be exacerbated in the region? Maybe having them stay put would keep them from proliferating in the region??? Maybe keeping them put in Mosul would make much more sense and cost far less bloodshed than an idiotic attempt to drive them out into a diaspora of Muslim-mania metastases????
    There was precedent. Germany's blockade of st. Petersburg, Russia. Starvation and thirst in the swelter of Mosul would be perhaps even less bearable than the sweet ensuing sleep of freezing to death for so many in St. Pete.
    Another failed attempt was Russia and E. Germany which we remedied significantly with the Marshall Plan.
    And who would attempt a Marshall Plan for ISIS in Mosul? Not even Iran or Syria, for it would "out" them as ISIS enablers (perhaps along with world-scope military-industrial-complex suppliers to whomever pays . . . but also with present drone tech we'd be able to knock down "Iranitarian supply service" planes.

    Why have I brought up these situations, these examples of what I see as policy idiocy? Past and proposed?
    Because nothing is gained relative to what is lost. Especially in this present situation which differs from Imperial aspirations of actual nations that could be defeated like in the past -- even though they'd functionally already been defeated thus what we did was "overkill" which included our own fatalities.
    Because, different now, like AlQaida, ISIS driven from Mosul will change its name and continue as a sectarian infection of the disaffected and disillusioned and just demented.

    Perhaps there can be an innoculation against extremism?
    Ah, but there would be those who'd refuse it, for their kids might be afficted with autism instead of Jihadism.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    I like the idea of starving them. It made me sick when they trashed the ancient items on display. They suck on all levels. I'm all for a harsh reprisal. We're gonna need some Kurds........
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Sorry but "words" won't cut it; Schneider, nice story; however please look at the total picture not just one town. The "rebellion" in the middle east/Africa will continue; stabilization will take a long time. As I said before even if you "starve" or erradicate ISIS, new probably even more radicals will pop up somewhere else. I guess people here forget that turmoil stretches all the way to Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria,Mali, Yemen. So even if Mosul is taken, then the "party" is just beginning. I just wonder about the Palestine issue; the bombing and flattening of Gaza stays a "sore" thing in the Middle East; it will always be a "thorn" in the side of Israel. so I wonder, if a total mideast war will evolve from it.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    But carpet bombing would make things a lot more entertaining. I was wrong initially. They want the 7th century....not the twelth.

    BTW.A friend gave me a bootleg copy of American Sniper. The movie sucked. I could'nt believe they made such a big thing out of it. I'm just glad I didn't waste money to go see it. Who wants to pay 50.00 for a popcorn and nachos.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: But carpet bombing would make things a lot more entertaining. I was wrong initially. They want the 7th century....not the twelth.

    BTW.A friend gave me a bootleg copy of American Sniper. The movie sucked. I could'nt believe they made such a big thing out of it. I'm just glad I didn't waste money to go see it. Who wants to pay 50.00 for a popcorn and nachos.
    L.A. your "carpet bombing" does not solve anything at all; where do you think all these people go?, have you seen the pictures on TV of all the "tent" camps of the refuge's? So guess who has to feed them?; there are now already millions of refuge's; they will love us for sure if we bombed all their houses flat. So start thinking what you would do when you would be in the same position.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    How can one blockade an ideology? ISIS is one of countless whack-a-mole's that have popped up in the Middle East since Bush invaded a non-combatant country back in 2003. The origins of ISIS actually stretch back to four years before 9/11, but Saddam kept them under control. So Bush is, in effect, solely responsible for us ever hearing the term Islamic State.

    Back to my original point--you can not blockade an ideology. How do you go about blockading half of Iraq and half of Syria? Would we just build a thousands of miles long circular fence or something? How would we be able to decide who is and isn't a combatant? Would we allow women, children, and the elderly to leave the blockade? If so--where would they go? To live with the hundreds of thousands of refugees scattered throughout the Middle-East already? Or would we find somewhere else to send them?
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Dutch Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: But carpet bombing would make things a lot more entertaining. I was wrong initially. They want the 7th century....not the twelth.

    BTW.A friend gave me a bootleg copy of American Sniper. The movie sucked. I could'nt believe they made such a big thing out of it. I'm just glad I didn't waste money to go see it. Who wants to pay 50.00 for a popcorn and nachos.
    L.A. your "carpet bombing" does not solve anything at all; where do you think all these people go?, have you seen the pictures on TV of all the "tent" camps of the refuge's? So guess who has to feed them?; there are now already millions of refuge's; they will love us for sure if we bombed all their houses flat. So start thinking what you would do when you would be in the same position.
    Lets just compare ISIS with LA street gangs. Up until the idiot box (TV) started glamorizing gangs, LA gang members had one thing in common with each other. (all gangs, many generations)....They all grew up in the communities to where generations of them all knew each other. They did NOT terrorize their communities and hold neighbors hostages to fear. The neighbors are the families of gang members. They would protect us from the police, let us run through their yards, hide in their houses and lie to the police for us.They would not cooperate.

    We are talking about generations of poor, stupid, angry, hardworking, welfare recipients, section 8,.....and mainly, not wanting to improve their own situations. YES, I'm speaking about my people in the ghettos. Completely satisfied and content with having nothing.

    I have to assume that ISIS has the same type of support (from someone; somewhere) It's a culture

    Now, if the US Airforce dropped a bomb right in the middle of South Los Angeles (extreme Ghetto)....who would really give a shit about the surviving refugees.???? (the neighbors and families) Who? Theres no changing and definitely no saving the ghetto. Theres no fixing that ideoly...UNLESS you were to take the children at a very young age and have someone else raise them...Again, I'm speaking about my people.

    There are places in LA that you cannot stomach.....miles and miles of bullshit. Generations of it. Idiots. It still amazes me after all these years. It still offends me.
    I don't give a damn about those refugess....we have refugees here that you cannot save. Sometimes I think we should just start over SOMEHOW. But that would take the removal of about 70 percent of Earths population. We've got billions of crazy people on earth.......In order for someone to win...many have to lose. Thats the reality of it all.

    Ultimately...people think the same. So I don't have to study ISIS,,,,all I have to do is lookout my window. It's all the same shit
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    Dutch Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: But carpet bombing would make things a lot more entertaining. I was wrong initially. They want the 7th century....not the twelth.

    BTW.A friend gave me a bootleg copy of American Sniper. The movie sucked. I could'nt believe they made such a big thing out of it. I'm just glad I didn't waste money to go see it. Who wants to pay 50.00 for a popcorn and nachos.
    L.A. your "carpet bombing" does not solve anything at all; where do you think all these people go?, have you seen the pictures on TV of all the "tent" camps of the refuge's? So guess who has to feed them?; there are now already millions of refuge's; they will love us for sure if we bombed all their houses flat. So start thinking what you would do when you would be in the same position.
    Lets just compare ISIS with LA street gangs. Up until the idiot box (TV) started glamorizing gangs, LA gang members had one thing in common with each other. (all gangs, many generations)....They all grew up in the communities to where generations of them all knew each other. They did NOT terrorize their communities and hold neighbors hostages to fear. The neighbors are the families of gang members. They would protect us from the police, let us run through their yards, hide in their houses and lie to the police for us.They would not cooperate.

    We are talking about generations of poor, stupid, angry, hardworking, welfare recipients, section 8,.....and mainly, not wanting to improve their own situations. YES, I'm speaking about my people in the ghettos. Completely satisfied and content with having nothing.

    I have to assume that ISIS has the same type of support (from someone; somewhere) It's a culture

    Now, if the US Airforce dropped a bomb right in the middle of South Los Angeles (extreme Ghetto)....who would really give a shit about the surviving refugees.???? (the neighbors and families) Who? Theres no changing and definitely no saving the ghetto. Theres no fixing that ideoly...UNLESS you were to take the children at a very young age and have someone else raise them...Again, I'm speaking about my people.

    There are places in LA that you cannot stomach.....miles and miles of bullshit. Generations of it. Idiots. It still amazes me after all these years. It still offends me.
    I don't give a damn about those refugess....we have refugees here that you cannot save. Sometimes I think we should just start over SOMEHOW. But that would take the removal of about 70 percent of Earths population. We've got billions of crazy people on earth.......In order for someone to win...many have to lose. Thats the reality of it all.

    Ultimately...people think the same. So I don't have to study ISIS,,,,all I have to do is lookout my window. It's all the same shit
    L.A. sure you paint a picture, which shows how we live in a country which does not give a hoot about how did those people get into such mess in the first place.
    In the Netherlands they don't have any slums; everyone is taken care of, because of a social and good education system which does not create "debt" for the students. In this country like they have done since WWII; they spent it on fighting wars and building more war toys, instead of investing it in their own people. The priority here is to satisfy the rich and war industry, the poor get milked only more and more. Then on top you get the "drug" issue, of which you know how that works on your brain.
    Then the promotion of guns, religion, greedy politicians etc. that makes the picture complete. As I said in many of my threads we have exported our horrible capitalistic system everywhere, also to the middle east, so you get the same situation as here, people will then run to something or someone who promises a better life. The US always did bribe their leaders with handouts, but forgot the common people; that is now backfiring. People who have food, a decent job, a roof above their head, likely don't start wars or create slums.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Lately you don't hear anything at all about ISIS; I guess like I said before the Pentagon and the CIA have blocked all the news from there also any casualties.
    Typical censorship; I bet as soon as we "win" they will release news, but not when we "loose" . Also the real "cost" picture for us will be "hidden". We always complained about the Russian censorship; are we any better? Obama uses the word "transparent" all the time; just for the "fun" of it?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    A couple of days ago it was reported that ISIS had abducted about 200 Christians...... They can have them. If you're Christians in Syria or Iraq you're just asking for trouble. It would be like camping in the ghetto and complaining that you were robbed. Those Christians deserve whatever happens. If you're going to be stupid Christians...... do it in Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma.....where they don't want to kill you. Hell they will probably invite you to their pancake breakfast.

    In the news about ISIS was their mass destruction of archeological sites in Iraq a couple of days ago. They stole what they thought might be sellable on ebay and ran bulldozers over the rest. Because those areas we from 1600 BC and therefore they represent false gods. These destructive method s are trashing historical items that can't be replaced. That's stupid but it gets them on the news. Those places where they have time to run heavy equipment is where we could use an American Sniper.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    I'm glad they're trashing their relics. Maybe if they destroy enough of them future generations will catch up and join most of the world in the 21st century.
    Too much appreciation of the past and zero attention to the future. Get rid all of those damn statues....and while your at it...burn the Mona Lisa. Ugly ass painting people would pay millions for.
    Art??? who started that trend? like when actors call what they do a craft...what a joke. Handing each other awards every year letting us know just how great they are. How important and special they are. Who knows...maybe Kim Kardashian will run for office in the near future.....you know, because she 's so special.
    Every day this country becomes more of a joke.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: I'm glad they're trashing their relics. Maybe if they destroy enough of them future generations will catch up and join most of the world in the 21st century.
    Too much appreciation of the past and zero attention to the future. Get rid all of those damn statues....and while your at it...burn the Mona Lisa. Ugly ass painting people would pay millions for.
    Art??? who started that trend? like when actors call what they do a craft...what a joke. Handing each other awards every year letting us know just how great they are. How important and special they are. Who knows...maybe Kim Kardashian will run for office in the near future.....you know, because she 's so special.
    Every day this country becomes more of a joke.
    Anyway L.A. just wait till they "trash" the American culture!! No more tequila for you, only sandals. Do you know how to milk a camel? And do you like "turt" burgers? They'll trash also all I-Pads and cellphones and gays; the Capitol in Washington will be rebuilt into a huge mosque.!! So I agree with you that something has to be done to stop those assholes.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    On the news; Iran wants to get involved, even for them the cruelty goes too far; they likely will sent troops etc to fight ISIS. If so, this will create a huge conflict between the US and Israel, because the US will then support Iran. I guess this must have been part of the reason of Netanyahu's visit to the US.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Dutch Wrote: On the news; Iran wants to get involved, even for them the cruelty goes too far; they likely will sent troops etc to fight ISIS. If so, this will create a huge conflict between the US and Israel, because the US will then support Iran. I guess this must have been part of the reason of Netanyahu's visit to the US.
    Iran is already heavily, and overtly, involved in the Iraqi civil war. They been for quite some time now.

    The United States is actually working, albeit under the radar, with Iran in their foray into Iraq. There are thousands of Iranian troops fighting alongside the Iraqi Army and Shiia militia as we speak. The United States is well aware of this and is either powerless to stop it or willing to allow Iran to do this so American forces don't have to. Either wary--Iran is heavily involved in the fight against ISIS right now.

    This is what happens when an incompetent President invades a country without thinking of any of the possible consequences of his idiotic actions. Former Secretary Powell was a prophet back in 2003. He foresaw exactly what would happen when Bush opened this can of worms in the Middle East and was proven to be one hundred percent accurate.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: I'm glad they're trashing their relics. Maybe if they destroy enough of them future generations will catch up and join most of the world in the 21st century.
    Too much appreciation of the past and zero attention to the future. Get rid all of those damn statues....and while your at it...burn the Mona Lisa. Ugly ass painting people would pay millions for.
    Art??? who started that trend? like when actors call what they do a craft...what a joke. Handing each other awards every year letting us know just how great they are. How important and special they are. Who knows...maybe Kim Kardashian will run for office in the near future.....you know, because she 's so special.
    Every day this country becomes more of a joke.
    Art is one of the few ways we are able to fully understand history that is thousands of years old.

    I actually think destroying art and ancient relics has the exact opposite effect you are hoping for. 'Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.' ISIS is well aware of this. If you destroy the past then you are able to create the future in your own eyes. A future where ISIS can throw gay people hundreds of feet to their deaths, marry off nine year old girls, and kill anyone who doesn't follow their strict interpretation of militant Sunni Islam doesn't sound that awesome to me.