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Islamic issues and The USA

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Today I was watching CNN: Fareed Zakaria GPS was the show. He spoke to Bernard Haykel of Princeton who is an expert on ISIS or ISIL. He mentioned that in the world there are 1.6 billion Muslims. ISIS has approx. 30,000 members. That is 0.0019 % of Islamic people and yet the repubs want to label this issue in the middle east as an Islamic Holy War even though it constitutes 0.0019 % of their population. This is what defines the region. I suggest that people look up this guy Bernard Haykel as he is very intelligent, knowledgeable about the issues and well spoken.






  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Tony,
    I have to disagree. What makes him an expert? Princeton? That's the problem in this country. Everyone is an expert, especially in court.
    An expert on ISIS and the rest of the magic carpet worshippers are the people who live there. Not some godamn Princeton Academic voicing his opinion.
    All these news channels with there "experts' on any given situation.

    Jeffrey Toobin is a CNN legal expert. They make jokes about him here in the steets about his legal expertise. Mark Garregos (another one).I know some of his clients who paid hundreds of thousands $$$$$ for his representation. They could have done better off with a federal public defender.

    All these "experts" have never heard of ISIS until recently....and now miraculously know everything
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    L.A.,
    I disagree with you. You apparently don't like the concept of an expert, but who knows - you may be W R O N G .......... It's possible you know. Maybe you need to listen to the above 2 videos. Or go to the internet and look it up instead of the opinion you came up with 1 second after you read the word expert and yelled loudly....... The better universities can be more selective about their professors because they charge a lot for tuition. If you listen to his videos you'll hear him talking about the fact that he spent time in the middle east. He probably has the internet and a phone also so he's spoken to lots of people (others who were possibly well informed also) and shared ideas and information.
    I agree a lot of the so called experts are not very good. That doesn't mean that there's no such thing as an expert. I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences with others who were called experts.
    Wikipedia seems to think he's THE expert
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Haykel

    He grew up in Lebanon (just west of Syria)
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    So, any republican will tell you that Pres. Obama is afraid to call the ISIS/ISIL problem (what repubs think it is) a religious / Islamic problem. The truth is though that (as stated in the first post) 30,000 out of 1.6 billion is 0.0019 % of Islamic people involved with ISIS or two tenths of 1 percent. Less than 2 out of every 1000 Islamic people involved with ISIS. So 998.0081 out of a 1000 - not involved. A real holy war but someone forgot to tell the majority of Muslims.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: L.A.,
    I disagree with you. You apparently don't like the concept of an expert, but who knows - you may be W R O N G .......... It's possible you know. Maybe you need to listen to the above 2 videos. Or go to the internet and look it up instead of the opinion you came up with 1 second after you read the word expert and yelled loudly....... The better universities can be more selective about their professors because they charge a lot for tuition. If you listen to his videos you'll hear him talking about the fact that he spent time in the middle east. He probably has the internet and a phone also so he's spoken to lots of people (others who were possibly well informed also) and shared ideas and information.
    I agree a lot of the so called experts are not very good. That doesn't mean that there's no such thing as an expert. I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences with others who were called experts.
    Wikipedia seems to think he's THE expert
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Haykel

    He grew up in Lebanon (just west of Syria)
    I believe a brain surgeon to be an expert at his field. I believe a biologist to be an expert at his field. Anything other than verifiable data is someone's opinion.
    Sigmund Freud was considered the top of his field in Academia. We now know that was a joke. He gave his opinion. ONLY.
    Who can actually be expert at thoughts? No one.
    These academics are no different than Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow and the rest of the them......commenting....Yes, very smart,,,,,ultimately an opinion. It's all subjective. And yes, the top universities in this country can produce garbage.
    Do you know of any Art majors from Dartmouth contributing to the world. Are they experts in what Da Vinci thought? No, they may know the style, the paint, the brush stroke....they have no clue about what Da Vinci thought about while painting the Mona Lisa.
    'EXPERTS" in academia attempt to fill in the gaps. OPINIONS.
    Regarding Wikipedia, I can go to the "Urban dictionary" and look up the word 'DOG"..the meaning would be "a friend"... a greeting'. What's up DOG?

    So again, any person making comments lacking any type of verifiable evidence in support of is just a commentator.

    Am I an expert in prison? no sir, I only give my opinion based solely from my own experiences. My thoughts about prison are infact very subjective.
    I can tell you this.....The warden, an inmate, and the chief of the Bureau Of prisons would all have different opinions (experts) about the same event.
    The very reason I do not agree with you.....Sorry big guy
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Thank you Mr. commentator. Any comments about the middle east - Oh wait you've told us. Carpet bomb the place.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    We seem to be caught up in terminology, a side issue that detracts from the message. I don't care if we call him an expert or an informed opinion or educated opinion or whatever. And in any case all experts have opinions. That's why in legal trials the prosecution and defense will put on the stand their own expert witnesses (often scientists of some sort) to give opposing opinions. I'm not an expert, whatever that term really means, but I've spent enough time reading articles and books from various sources that I think I can give at least one "informed opinion" on the matter, and I've already done that in other posts. See the ISIS Beheading thread. Now someone else's informed opinion might be more informed than mine, and in that case I'll change my mind if his opinion seems more logical.

    I've read the Graeme Woods article carefully and that's why I posted it. But I also read the ThinkProgress follow up discussion with Bernard Haykel.

    ThinkProgress: What The Atlantic Left Out About ISIS According To Their Own Expert

    I certainly agree with the point that ISIL, those 0.0019 percent of Muslims that have extracted ancient quotes from the Qur'an to justify their own version of a jihad, are not true modern day Muslims and should not be given that distinction as it legitimizes their recruitment efforts, and it also drives Islamophobia here in the USA. On the other hand, Muslims (and likewise Christians in reference to the Bible) are caught up in a problem of their own making. The Qur'an and Bible are considered "God's word", and the power clergy absolutely need that "sanctification" to control their flock of followers and recruit new members. The modernists of both religions have sought to distance themselves from the harsh punishments, especially against women, defined in these texts, either by ignoring them completely or using the phrase, "alternative interpretation". Both the Qur'an and the Bible have alternate translations of their scriptures, but when I do Google searches of certain passages, I do not find a lot of room for an "alternative interpretation" of some of the more explicit quotations. That's my "informed opinion".

    We have hundreds of different denominations of Islam and Christianity, all of which have cherry picked certain verses to give legitimacy to their own sect of religion. That's what the Westboro Baptists do and that's what ISIL is doing, except what ISIL is doing is the extreme of the extreme. The ultimate solution might be for the respective religions to convene some conferences to rewrite a modernist version and take out those Barabaric punishments...but could that version then be called "God's word"? No...and it would not deter the ISILs and others of this world from capitalizing on what was cast in stone as God's word in the 7th century. So all that both religions can continue do is to disown certain words and phrases with "alternative interpretations". And we need to play along...wink, wink.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: Thank you Mr. commentator. Any comments about the middle east - Oh wait you've told us. Carpet bomb the place.
    I agree with L.A. At least I noticed that most "experts" on TV are absolutely only spewing "home grown" opinions; some people may have 'lived" there for a while, but not neccesarely in the area discussed. Mostly they invite the same "retired" generals or the same "experts" all the time. Therefore I often wonder,why don't they invite others, who were not "briefed;screened; programmed" or "voice" a pre-determined and "coached" opinion. Mostly if you see a person who really says the "correct" things then mostly it is a " one timer" show and you never see that guy again. As I said many times this country is an "isolated" island; the media is totally controlled; everything has to be in our favor,otherwise it is not published. A typical example is that the Pentagon stated that they no longer will publish casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the news keeps on interviewing our "retired" know it all 999 generals; the dumb public "eats" that as the "thruth". Just ask Snowdon. Most people here are very naive.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Schmidt,
    Good post....... In the one video Haykel notes how the people in the middle east often refer to people from the west as "Crusaders" because of the Christian crusades a long time ago. He also mentions how Bin Laden did the 911 attacks for 500,000.00 which is a bargain compared to the "3 xxxxx oops Trillion" the US has spent for their response to 911. I don't think the US can do anything inexpensively. He also mentioned how our bombing of ISIS is not going to work because the use the it's us against the world sentiment and this just plays into it.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: Schmidt,
    Good post....... In the one video Haykel notes how the people in the middle east often refer to people from the west as "Crusaders" because of the Christian crusades a long time ago. He also mentions how Bin Laden did the 911 attacks for 500,000.00 which is a bargain compared to the "3 xxxxx oops Trillion" the US has spent for their response to 911. I don't think the US can do anything inexpensively. He also mentioned how our bombing of ISIS is not going to work because the use the it's us against the world sentiment and this just plays into it.
    I agree. It is really hard to bomb an idea.

    ISIS was not created overnight and ISIS isn't their first name. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (anyone remember him?) formed the group in 1999 and its name has changed nearly a dozen times. Everyone can thank President Bush for being directly responsible for us ever hearing this name on the nightly news. Zarqawi was kept under control before we decided to invade a country that did absolutely nothing to us. ISIS would have never been a part of our vocabulary had Bush not made that terrible decision.

    What Bush and his minions did was basically break apart the fragile truce between Sunni and Shiia Muslims and usher in a new age of intense fighting between the two. It reminds me of the various and lengthy wars between Catholics and Protestants. While Bush got us into this mess, there is nothing we as a country to do to solve it. This is a religious civil war where American troops would be sitting ducks if we went back in. The Muslims have to figure this out themselves with the worlds help and guidance, but not the worlds armies.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Apparently France has decided that following the terrorist acts in Paris........ They are going to get more involved in the fight against ISIS. France has committed 3,000 people to this effort. They sent in their really large aircraft carrier and some say that they will be there for 2 or 3 weeks. Stay tuned.

    http://www.aol.com/article/2015/02/23/french-aircraft-carrier-begins-iraq-operations-french-sources/21145554/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl18%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D617490
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    Two to three weeks! More like until they run out of good wine, cheese and bread. Then it will be time to turn that carrier around and sail back home to replenish the hold for several months worth of maintence and training exercises.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pgr Wrote: Two to three weeks! More like until they run out of good wine, cheese and bread. Then it will be time to turn that carrier around and sail back home to replenish the hold for several months worth of maintence and training exercises.
    You are right ; since France is not like the US; being involved in forever "wars", they use this indeed as an exercise for their navy; this money would have been spent anyway for training purposes. Politics as usual.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    Perhaps you are right. I think they wanted to flex their muscle to say don't attack us again. What they are doing may have opposite effects though. We'll have to continue to check the news - but that is usually depressing.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    TJ Wrote: Perhaps you are right. I think they wanted to flex their muscle to say don't attack us again. What they are doing may have opposite effects though. We'll have to continue to check the news - but that is usually depressing.
    Tony.yes you are correct; most of the news published here is "depressing" always something "negative" to report; "x" number of murders, bank robberies, car accidents, Ebola, cancer, wars, Isis, a non working government, corruption, bribes, rapes, the Kardashian troubles, football players going rogue, dogs on fire, wrong dresses at the Oscars, Bill Cosby adventures, Boehner speeches, Obama visiting the Pope, you just name it; nothing positive at all.