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ISIS Beheads Another 21 Egyptians in Libya

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  • Center Left
    Independent
    Charlotte, NC
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    President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi warned that his country would respond to the deaths as it saw fit. When will this stop? When will governments of all nations rise and go in with brute sweeping force. No one condones this kind of barbaric behavior. No one. Even those who once supported terrorist acts are turning against ISIS. Saying that they are too barbaric. There has to be some sort of agreement everyone can come to to sweep this. All arguments need to be put aside to solve this disgusting problem. What exactly is holding everyone back to take care of this?
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    ClayTaylorNC Wrote: President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi warned that his country would respond to the deaths as it saw fit. When will this stop? When will governments of all nations rise and go in with brute sweeping force. No one condones this kind of barbaric behavior. No one. Even those who once supported terrorist acts are turning against ISIS. Saying that they are too barbaric. There has to be some sort of agreement everyone can come to to sweep this. All arguments need to be put aside to solve this disgusting problem. What exactly is holding everyone back to take care of this?
    I disagree. They don't "condone" it because of self preservation. They know their next. There are no agreements. Agreements are usually made when two sides come to an unsderstanding. There is no understanding. They're still in 12 th century.
    They have to all agree to permanently remove them from earth....which they'll do without any conscience.
    A man truly understands when his sole existence depends on it........these royal families will not jeapordize their bank accounts.
    So does it really matter who kills them? Ali Babba and the 40 thieves has to leave earth.

    You know whats holding us back.....WE DON"T WANNA "OFFEND" ANYONE....this is comedy.
    ISIL has punched their own ticket.....it's gonna happen. TRUST ME......
    Arabs take money deadly serious.
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Charlotte, NC
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    ClayTaylorNC Wrote: President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi warned that his country would respond to the deaths as it saw fit. When will this stop? When will governments of all nations rise and go in with brute sweeping force. No one condones this kind of barbaric behavior. No one. Even those who once supported terrorist acts are turning against ISIS. Saying that they are too barbaric. There has to be some sort of agreement everyone can come to to sweep this. All arguments need to be put aside to solve this disgusting problem. What exactly is holding everyone back to take care of this?
    I disagree. They don't "condone" it because of self preservation. They know their next. There are no agreements. Agreements are usually made when two sides come to an unsderstanding. There is no understanding. They're still in 12 th century.
    They have to all agree to permanently remove them from earth....which they'll do without any conscience.
    A man truly understands when his sole existence depends on it........these royal families will not jeapordize their bank accounts.
    So does it really matter who kills them? Ali Babba and the 40 thieves has to leave earth.

    You know whats holding us back.....WE DON"T WANNA "OFFEND" ANYONE....this is comedy.
    ISIL has punched their own ticket.....it's gonna happen. TRUST ME......
    Arabs take money deadly serious.
    Whatever their reasons may be for not condoning it, is their reason for not condoning it. Either way the result is the same. They don't condone it. And yes, I know it will happen. I guess what I am wanting is to know when. Do 50 more heads need to be removed for boots land to shake them out. Sadly, I think the answer may be yes. Maybe even more.

    And by agreements, I am referring to leaders. Leaders of country and state. Agreements to pull else aside to take care of this problem. That is beyond wishful thinking though.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    I agree 100 percent
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: I agree 100 percent
    No, read history; this has been going on for thousands of years; also under Christians; read the book of "martyrs" which was first published in the 16th century.
    Just because of rapid development in the news media we are now getting more news than ever; before that time no one cared or was aware of these things; I lost count of all the beheadings in Saudia Arabia, who are our "friends" Do I smell "hypocracy" ?
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    difference is that all of those being beheaded are foreigners/christians. Don't expect Muslim nations to get too upset about that. I think I heard this morning that Egypt might be stepping up to do something....... Guess I need to watch some news today to see what is happening.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Tony Johnson Wrote: difference is that all of those being beheaded are foreigners/christians. Don't expect Muslim nations to get too upset about that. I think I heard this morning that Egypt might be stepping up to do something....... Guess I need to watch some news today to see what is happening.
    Tony; the reality of this is that the western world is totally naive; the only purpose of this is to drag us into another war; can't you understand? Who are the "nutheads" who brought "christianity" there Just "guess". Sorry your message is typical American; fanatic muslims stay fanatic muslims; you can try to fight them all but loose in the end. Do we want wars in Iraq, Lybia, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, Nigeria, Mali,etc etc. Do you really think we can be all over the place to erradicate what we caused by our medding all over the place; love those missionairies for sure. WAKE UP AMERICA>

    If we want to sell "snake oil' all over the world that will eventually backfire, if these people have already their own "snake oil" . We should absolutely not be involved; let them fight it out between themselves; we've got enough protections here in the US; Guantamo bay has also a lot of "open" cells, so no problem.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    I watched an interview on TV today with Graeme Wood of The Atlantic. I don't have time to summarize, but you can read a very interesting article by Wood here:

    Graeme Wood, The Atlantic, March 2015: What ISIS Really Wants

    "The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. Here’s what that means for its strategy—and for how to stop it."

    I'll comment more later but have to run...
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    I heard him on NPR. A lot of blow hard American politicians would do well to also pay attention to what he has to say!

    The reality is the West can never make any real, long term changes in the Middle Esst. The people who live there are the only ones that can bring themselves out of the Middle Ages. We can support them with advisors and equiptment but the reality is "boots on the ground" is nothing more than a treading water solution that give war mongers like McCain a reason to exist.

    When the Arabs have finally had enough of these relious nuts they will wake up and come into the real world - until then we are better off letting them all destroy themselves.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pgr Wrote: I heard him on NPR. A lot of blow hard American politicians would do well to also pay attention to what he has to say!

    The reality is the West can never make any real, long term changes in the Middle Esst. The people who live there are the only ones that can bring themselves out of the Middle Ages. We can support them with advisors and equiptment but the reality is "boots on the ground" is nothing more than a treading water solution that give war mongers like McCain a reason to exist.

    When the Arabs have finally had enough of these relious nuts they will wake up and come into the real world - until then we are better off letting them all destroy themselves.
    PGR, suggest to sent them your snow; that will cool them down; frozen fingers can't pull triggers. But anyway you are absolutely right. Any US "help" will only cost money but in the end has no results whatsoever; it will only be ruins and no return on investment. Our politicians are a big laugh.
  • Independent
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    there are no changes to be made from a confrontation/what are we to do standpoint. none that would be successful at least.

    i read most of the atlantic article. in the past i have claimed that religion is used as the cloak or cover. this is especially true of isil and, imo, any apocalyptic cult. the failure of individual humans to either achieve the gains that society, no matter the society, deems as success leads either to suicide, spiritual or physical, or violent political actions against those whom said failure demands payment be made from. isil simply taps into the neediest, psychologically/spiritually damaged by either society's demands or hypocritical power structure figures no matter the power structure. ask yourself why the leaders of these groups hide themselves. oh, the aussie idiots don't but they are hardly the power structure. the leaders require that the broken people provide the fodder much like our military does with the so-called volunteer army. belief is a powerful agitprop tool. look at how far marxism, more aptly titled stalinism/maoism, got without the benefit of invoking religious belief.

    you cannot struggle against belief. you will fail. because the broken are in never-ending supply and the leaders simply fade away to either return or develop a new generation. only altering society's success structure can change the framework under which belief operates. this is also shown in the failure of people to understand the danger from a civil destruction standpoint of massive wealth inequality. look at the blood of the french revolution, of the russian revolution, the chinese, the maoist guerrillas, the idiocy of sunni/shia and on and on. instability in society breeds chaos. belief provides a channel which funnels violent political action. whether secular belief such as stalinism or religious mania such as salafism it matters not.

    you cannot outlaw belief. you can minimize its impact through society.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    There is now a report that these savages have burned 45 men whom they had taken as prisoners, and they were members of the former security forces that opposed them during their take over.
  • Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Colorado Springs, CO
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    The article, What ISIS Really Wants, takes some time to digest. I'll make a few comments.

    First, the point about ISIS being religious or largely secular is open to debate. In an older post last year I talked about Wahhbism, the branch of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia. We all know their reputation for administering Sharia law. However, today's version of Saudi Wahhabism is more moderate (modern) than the original strict Qu'ranic interpretation. Graeme calls it Salafist, (see chart), closer to original Wahhabism, but even that label doesn't fully describe the level of extremism of ISIS.

    The Islamic State (ISIS) simply interprets Qu'ran very strictly going back to a 7th century Salafist ideololgy. It rejects the reality of modernity. In a sense it's a "new religion" or ideology for our times...a relic of the 7th century. It is not representative of modern Sunni or Shia Islam...and not even modern Wahhabism.

    If, for example, a new Christian religious sect (call it the Christian Caliphate) emerged in an unnamed country that strictly interpreted and applied Old Testament Biblical scripture on stoning of women, killing, decapitations, slavery, etc and videotaped their executions to drive fear, would modern Christianity disown it as not having anything to do with Christianity?

    I am not defending Islam, but I can appreciate Obama's attempt to minimize the increasing Islamophobia trends in this country by disassociating the ISIS 7th Century Salafist ideology from modern day Islam.

    A second point I would make is that the ISIS version of the Apocalypse has many similarities to the Christian Apocalypse. Instead of the final End of Days battle occurring in Armageddon in Israel, the Qu'ranic version occurs in Dabiq, Syria. In both Christianity and Islam, that battle is associated with Jesus returning to Earth. As Graeme points out, Jesus is the second most revered prophet in Islam. Christians refer to the anti-Christ. The equivalent in Islam is the anti-Messiah. Many Christians would like to advance that date so they can be resurrected. ISIS would like to advance that date as well by battling the USA in Dabiq. The USA must avoid that.

    So how do we stop the ISIS movement, if at all? Americans are divided in their opinions, but opinion polls seem to indicate that they disagree with the way Obama is handling the situation. I suspect that it's more a frustration that "American exceptionalism" doesn't seem to be working here. I'm glad John McCain's not calling the shots though.

    Oh and take a look at my Christian Caliphate link above. It's an old DHub thread.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Schmidt Wrote: If, for example, a new Christian religious sect (call it the Christian Caliphate) emerged in an unnamed country that strictly interpreted and applied Old Testament Biblical scripture on stoning of women, killing, decapitations, slavery, etc and videotaped their executions to drive fear, would modern Christianity disown it as not having anything to do with Christianity?

    I am not defending Islam, but I can appreciate Obama's attempt to minimize the increasing Islamophobia trends in this country by disassociating the ISIS 7th Century Salafist ideology from modern day Islam.
    This is something I have brought up in many conversations with people who keep referring to Islamic terrorism while willfully ignoring terror done by other races and religions. It's really all about perspective. How were our soldiers looked at when they invaded a peaceful country in 2003? Liberators or Christian mercenaries waging, as our incompetent former President idiotically said, a crusade? I am by no means calling our soldiers terrorists, but I am only pointing out that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. What did Colin Powell famously say to President Bush before the Iraq invasion? If you break it you own it. Those were some of the most prophetic words to ever come out of a Secretary of State's mouth.

    I am glad that President Obama is trying to redirect the rising anti-Islamic fervor in this country and throughout the Western World. Terror is not confined to a specific religion or race--it is an ideology and criminal act done by individuals who feel they have nothing left to lose.
    Schmidt Wrote:A second point I would make is that the ISIS version of the Apocalypse has many similarities to the Christian Apocalypse. Instead of the final End of Days battle occurring in Armageddon in Israel, the Qu'ranic version occurs in Dabiq, Syria. In both Christianity and Islam, that battle is associated with Jesus returning to Earth. As Graeme points out, Jesus is the second most revered prophet in Islam. Christians refer to the anti-Christ. The equivalent in Islam is the anti-Messiah. Many Christians would like to advance that date so they can be resurrected. ISIS would like to advance that date as well by battling the USA in Dabiq. The USA must avoid that.
    What a scary thought. The extreme of both religions hoping to usher in the end of the world so they can both realize their Holy Book's prophecies. This keeps me up at night more than anything else going on in the world. Well, outside of the India/Pakistan conflict.
    Schmidt Wrote: So how do we stop the ISIS movement, if at all? Americans are divided in their opinions, but opinion polls seem to indicate that they disagree with the way Obama is handling the situation. I suspect that it's more a frustration that "American exceptionalism" doesn't seem to be working here. I'm glad John McCain's not calling the shots though.
    How easily Americans forget their own history. American exceptionalism wasn't able to win the Vietnam War and isn't going to be able to win this one, either. You can't bomb an idea. I would have thought we would have learned this after 15 years of war, but it still seems to be falling on deaf ears in this country.

    The same polls that say Americans are unhappy with President Obama's handling of this conflict also say that they don't want to send US ground troops back into Iraq. What exactly are they unhappy with then? I agree that it has much more to do with a sense of despair that we can't force the Middle-East to bend to our wills.

    I, too, am quite glad that John McCain isn't calling the shots, but he does have a very out sized role as Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Our new Secretary of Defense also worries me a bit. He's been a lifer at the Pentagon and I don't see him doing much to change the culture of resorting to the military instead of diplomacy to fix the worlds ills.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    Schmidt Wrote: If, for example, a new Christian religious sect (call it the Christian Caliphate) emerged in an unnamed country that strictly interpreted and applied Old Testament Biblical scripture on stoning of women, killing, decapitations, slavery, etc and videotaped their executions to drive fear, would modern Christianity disown it as not having anything to do with Christianity?

    I am not defending Islam, but I can appreciate Obama's attempt to minimize the increasing Islamophobia trends in this country by disassociating the ISIS 7th Century Salafist ideology from modern day Islam.
    This is something I have brought up in many conversations with people who keep referring to Islamic terrorism while willfully ignoring terror done by other races and religions. It's really all about perspective. How were our soldiers looked at when they invaded a peaceful country in 2003? Liberators or Christian mercenaries waging, as our incompetent former President idiotically said, a crusade? I am by no means calling our soldiers terrorists, but I am only pointing out that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. What did Colin Powell famously say to President Bush before the Iraq invasion? If you break it you own it. Those were some of the most prophetic words to ever come out of a Secretary of State's mouth.

    I am glad that President Obama is trying to redirect the rising anti-Islamic fervor in this country and throughout the Western World. Terror is not confined to a specific religion or race--it is an ideology and criminal act done by individuals who feel they have nothing left to lose.
    Schmidt Wrote:A second point I would make is that the ISIS version of the Apocalypse has many similarities to the Christian Apocalypse. Instead of the final End of Days battle occurring in Armageddon in Israel, the Qu'ranic version occurs in Dabiq, Syria. In both Christianity and Islam, that battle is associated with Jesus returning to Earth. As Graeme points out, Jesus is the second most revered prophet in Islam. Christians refer to the anti-Christ. The equivalent in Islam is the anti-Messiah. Many Christians would like to advance that date so they can be resurrected. ISIS would like to advance that date as well by battling the USA in Dabiq. The USA must avoid that.
    What a scary thought. The extreme of both religions hoping to usher in the end of the world so they can both realize their Holy Book's prophecies. This keeps me up at night more than anything else going on in the world. Well, outside of the India/Pakistan conflict.
    Schmidt Wrote: So how do we stop the ISIS movement, if at all? Americans are divided in their opinions, but opinion polls seem to indicate that they disagree with the way Obama is handling the situation. I suspect that it's more a frustration that "American exceptionalism" doesn't seem to be working here. I'm glad John McCain's not calling the shots though.
    How easily Americans forget their own history. American exceptionalism wasn't able to win the Vietnam War and isn't going to be able to win this one, either. You can't bomb an idea. I would have thought we would have learned this after 15 years of war, but it still seems to be falling on deaf ears in this country.

    The same polls that say Americans are unhappy with President Obama's handling of this conflict also say that they don't want to send US ground troops back into Iraq. What exactly are they unhappy with then? I agree that it has much more to do with a sense of despair that we can't force the Middle-East to bend to our wills.

    I, too, am quite glad that John McCain isn't calling the shots, but he does have a very out sized role as Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Our new Secretary of Defense also worries me a bit. He's been a lifer at the Pentagon and I don't see him doing much to change the culture of resorting to the military instead of diplomacy to fix the worlds ills.
    Jared; your comments are absolutely correct; I think exactly alike about this. I just wonder how things will look in 5 years or so. The evangelicals and the Pentagon as well the GOP have then made the mess so huge that there is no return and we will become a "has been" world power.