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Are liberals too politically correct on Islam?

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    I've noticed a few things about the dialogue concerning Islam.

    It seems that people of a left leaning or "progressive" persuasion have a knee jerk reaction toward any perceived criticism of Islam - they immediately conflate such criticism with bigotry, racism or hate speech, and will even go so far as to distort the nature of the criticism itself in order to discredit it.

    I feel the left has an obsession with political correctness that prevents them from being truly honest about the doctrines of Islam.

    There is also a tendency to deny the role religion plays in any of the violence we see coming out of the Muslim world. You incessantly hear Liberals and moderate Muslims declare that "Islam is a religion of peace", or that "ISIS is not Islamic", or that "Religion has nothing to do with this, it's entirely political etc..".

    But to any thinking person, this is patently absurd. Anybody who has actually read the Koran and Sunnah, or knows anything about the Prophets life understands that, while Islam is many things, it is certainly not a religion of peace. And by simply paying attention to what jihadis tell us regarding their beliefs, the connection between specific doctrines within Islam and Islamic terrorism becomes all to obvious. The connection is about as unambiguous as you could possibly imagine, and yet liberals continue to deny its existence.

    Discuss.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    Well, the same exact thing can be said about Christianity. Christians are responsible for millions of more deaths than Muslims ever will be. Christians just don't want to accept it and dig their heads deeper and deeper into the sand.

    There's this thing called cause and effect. The reason Muslims tend to want to kill so many Americans is because America has killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims. It's a tit-for-tat that will never end because both groups want to blame the other for all the bloodshed. The only problem is that only one side has occupied the lands of, and killed far more innocent men, women, and children, than the other ever will.

    You may not recall the numerous times our wonderful former President declared that we are fighting a crusade. Could it possibly be that many Muslims took him at his word, especially after hundreds of thousands of them were indiscrimately killed?

    But let's keep pushing this false theory that Muslims are inherently violent without discussing the broader topic of the fight between Christians and Muslims. It's a straw man argument that doesn't stand up to any actual facts and instead plays off the hysteria and irrational fears that have been ingrained in the American population by our media, politicians, and religious groups ad infinitium.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Ciao Wrote: I've noticed a few things about the dialogue concerning Islam.

    It seems that people of a left leaning or "progressive" persuasion have a knee jerk reaction toward any perceived criticism of Islam - they immediately conflate such criticism with bigotry, racism or hate speech, and will even go so far as to distort the nature of the criticism itself in order to discredit it.

    I feel the left has an obsession with political correctness that prevents them from being truly honest about the doctrines of Islam.

    There is also a tendency to deny the role religion plays in any of the violence we see coming out of the Muslim world. You incessantly hear Liberals and moderate Muslims declare that "Islam is a religion of peace", or that "ISIS is not Islamic", or that "Religion has nothing to do with this, it's entirely political etc..".

    But to any thinking person, this is patently absurd. Anybody who has actually read the Koran and Sunnah, or knows anything about the Prophets life understands that, while Islam is many things, it is certainly not a religion of peace. And by simply paying attention to what jihadis tell us regarding their beliefs, the connection between specific doctrines within Islam and Islamic terrorism becomes all to obvious. The connection is about as unambiguous as you could possibly imagine, and yet liberals continue to deny its existence.

    Discuss.
    I apologize Mr. Ciao
    Let me be a little more specific.....All religious nut bags need to go visit Wilma and Fred.......and yes sir.....islam is filled with crazies that love to blow people up with bombs.. Sorry, i see a duck......I don't care that I've offended any of you.....all of you need to go back to the stone age.
    have a wonderful Day
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Absolutely Christianity is guilty of many sins and its beliefs were the cause of much harm, and still are. But we are not talking about Christianity or the Judeo-Christian west, we are talking about Islam, and the Islamic world. And how belief in specific doctrines within Islam can influence a persons actions. It seems to me that if you are perfectly happy to notice the damage done by the Christian religion, you should have no trouble noticing the damage being done by the Islamic religion.

    In any case, your assertion that jihadism is the result of American interference is not historically accurate. The Islamic doctrines of jihad and subjugation of non-muslims predates the existence of the United States. Jihadism is not a new thing. Take the First Barbary War as an example, and what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the Muslim states that kept seizing American merchant ships and enslaving the crews for high ransoms -

    We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretensions to make war upon a Nation who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our Friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

    This was long before American occupation. How do you explain this?

    How do you explain the fact that Islam has essentially been spread by the sword since its inception, and that Muhammed himself endorsed and took part in offensive wars against non-muslims?
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    But let's keep pushing this false theory that Muslims are inherently violent without discussing the broader topic of the fight between Christians and Muslims. It's a straw man argument that doesn't stand up to any actual facts and instead plays off the hysteria and irrational fears that have been ingrained in the American population by our media, politicians, and religious groups ad infinitium.

    Excuse me, but I never said that Muslims were inherently violent. I am saying that the religion is. Muslims are just Homo Sapiens like you and I, this is something you need to understand.

    I am talking specifically about the doctrines of Islam and how they relate to the violence we see coming from the muslim world.

    I made this point in my OP. Liberals will distort the content of the criticism of Islam in order to discredit it.

    I am happy to discuss the broader fight between the armies for Islam and the Christian west. Surely you are familiar with who the offending parties were in the initial wars?
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    L.A. Citizen Wrote:
    Ciao Wrote: I've noticed a few things about the dialogue concerning Islam.

    It seems that people of a left leaning or "progressive" persuasion have a knee jerk reaction toward any perceived criticism of Islam - they immediately conflate such criticism with bigotry, racism or hate speech, and will even go so far as to distort the nature of the criticism itself in order to discredit it.

    I feel the left has an obsession with political correctness that prevents them from being truly honest about the doctrines of Islam.

    There is also a tendency to deny the role religion plays in any of the violence we see coming out of the Muslim world. You incessantly hear Liberals and moderate Muslims declare that "Islam is a religion of peace", or that "ISIS is not Islamic", or that "Religion has nothing to do with this, it's entirely political etc..".

    But to any thinking person, this is patently absurd. Anybody who has actually read the Koran and Sunnah, or knows anything about the Prophets life understands that, while Islam is many things, it is certainly not a religion of peace. And by simply paying attention to what jihadis tell us regarding their beliefs, the connection between specific doctrines within Islam and Islamic terrorism becomes all to obvious. The connection is about as unambiguous as you could possibly imagine, and yet liberals continue to deny its existence.

    Discuss.
    I apologize Mr. Ciao
    Let me be a little more specific.....All religious nut bags need to go visit Wilma and Fred.......and yes sir.....islam is filled with crazies that love to blow people up with bombs.. Sorry, i see a duck......I don't care that I've offended any of you.....all of you need to go back to the stone age.
    have a wonderful Day
    I like the cut of your jib.

    I see a duck too.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Ciao Wrote: Absolutely Christianity is guilty of many sins and its beliefs were the cause of much harm, and still are. But we are not talking about Christianity or the Judeo-Christian west, we are talking about Islam, and the Islamic world. And how belief in specific doctrines within Islam can influence a persons actions. It seems to me that if you are perfectly happy to notice the damage done by the Christian religion, you should have no trouble noticing the damage being done by the Islamic religion.

    In any case, your assertion that jihadism is the result of American interference is not historically accurate. The Islamic doctrines of jihad and subjugation of non-muslims predates the existence of the United States. Jihadism is not a new thing. Take the First Barbary War as an example, and what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the Muslim states that kept seizing American merchant ships and enslaving the crews for high ransoms -

    We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretensions to make war upon a Nation who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our Friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

    This was long before American occupation. How do you explain this?

    How do you explain the fact that Islam has essentially been spread by the sword since its inception, and that Muhammed himself endorsed and took part in offensive wars against non-muslims?
    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    But let's keep pushing this false theory that Muslims are inherently violent without discussing the broader topic of the fight between Christians and Muslims. It's a straw man argument that doesn't stand up to any actual facts and instead plays off the hysteria and irrational fears that have been ingrained in the American population by our media, politicians, and religious groups ad infinitium.

    Excuse me, but I never said that Muslims were inherently violent. I am saying that the religion is. Muslims are just Homo Sapiens like you and I, this is something you need to understand.

    I am talking specifically about the doctrines of Islam and how they relate to the violence we see coming from the muslim world.

    I made this point in my OP. Liberals will distort the content of the criticism of Islam in order to discredit it.

    I am happy to discuss the broader fight between the armies for Islam and the Christian west. Surely you are familiar with who the offending parties were in the initial wars?
    I guess you are not aware that all religions are mistaken; pls come with proof that "anything way up there" is interested in human beings who kill each other.
    Sorry there is no Allah nor God; these figures are all "human" created; Allah nor God or Jesus never wrote one word themselves; humans did. The ridiculous thing is that "humans" kill each other because both are force fed with pure nonsense and lies. It is the indoctrination and being naive what drives people to do these things. So come with actual proof. The universe is huge; we are nothings in it and determine ourselves our destiny. Religion is a curse for humanity.
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    Dutch Wrote:
    I guess you are not aware that all religions are mistaken.

    Of course I'm aware of that.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Mr Ciao
    Why dont u have this conversation with allah on bis magic carpet. Yeah, thats believable. Hagi riding a white stallion in the heavens....please tell me more
  • Independent
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    [url=https://www.democratichub.com/user/106003.aspx">Ciao[/url] Wrote: I've noticed a few things about the dialogue concerning Islam.

    It seems that people of a left leaning or "progressive" persuasion have a knee jerk reaction toward any perceived criticism of Islam - they immediately conflate such criticism with bigotry, racism or hate speech, and will even go so far as to distort the nature of the criticism itself in order to discredit it.

    I feel the left has an obsession with political correctness that prevents them from being truly honest about the doctrines of Islam.

    There is also a tendency to deny the role religion plays in any of the violence we see coming out of the Muslim world. You incessantly hear Liberals and moderate Muslims declare that "Islam is a religion of peace", or that "ISIS is not Islamic", or that "Religion has nothing to do with this, it's entirely political etc..".

    But to any thinking person, this is patently absurd. Anybody who has actually read the Koran and Sunnah, or knows anything about the Prophets life understands that, while Islam is many things, it is certainly not a religion of peace. And by simply paying attention to what jihadis tell us regarding their beliefs, the connection between specific doctrines within Islam and Islamic terrorism becomes all to obvious. The connection is about as unambiguous as you could possibly imagine, and yet liberals continue to deny its existence.

    Discuss.

    Theology is loaded with rationalizations, justifications, obfuscations and mis-translations. Any religion, meaning basically all, that relies on writings by man but attributed to a deity that is bloodthirsty, petulant and immature is going to end up reflecting that "deity." Of course individuals can make decisions to abstain from violence and those that do so when it comes to religion are far more thoughtful. Religion is too often used as noted in the past as a cloak or cover for violent political acts. Religion itself even if so-called scripture says to do thus and so isn't violent. Humans that act on those words for whatever reason are violent.

    Look to humans as the source of the problem. Especially when mixed with tribalism or exceptionalism or the use of "the other."
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        

    Mr Ciao
    Why dont u have this conversation with allah on bis magic carpet. Yeah, thats believable. Hagi riding a white stallion in the heavens....please tell me more

    You're not making much sense anymore. Sorry.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Mr. Ciao
    help me out..lonely bird makes no sense to you...but flying carpets does?


    Have I missed something? You see, I stopped reading fantasy books as a child
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    lonely bird Wrote:
    Theology is loaded with rationalizations, justifications, obfuscations and mis-translations. Any religion, meaning basically all, that relies on writings by man but attributed to a deity that is bloodthirsty, petulant and immature is going to end up reflecting that "deity." Of course individuals can make decisions to abstain from violence and those that do so when it comes to religion are far more thoughtful. Religion is too often used as noted in the past as a cloak or cover for violent political acts. Religion itself even if so-called scripture says to do thus and so isn't violent. Humans that act on those words for whatever reason are violent.

    Look to humans as the source of the problem. Especially when mixed with tribalism or exceptionalism or the use of "the other."

    On the one hand you acknowledge that religions such as Islam have a bloodthirsty Ideology, but then you say that religion itself is not violent, it is the humans who are violent.

    I don't see what your point is. Do you agree with me that there is a connection between religious beliefs and religious violence, and that this is noticeable in the Islamic world?
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: Mr. Ciao
    help me out..lonely bird makes no sense to you...but flying carpets does?


    Have I missed something? You see, I stopped reading fantasy books as a child

    Good for you man.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Sorry Mr Ciao

    You start a thread to which you already have the answer (your answer) yes ....liberals are too politicaly correct when it comes to islam....thats why they claim to be liberals....So why ask when your not satisfied with answer??
  • Are you sure you want to delete this post?
        
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: Sorry Mr Ciao

    You start a thread to which you already have the answer (your answer) yes ....liberals are too politicaly correct when it comes to islam....thats why they claim to be liberals....So why ask when your not satisfied with answer??

    Yes yes. You are so right.