Forum Thread

Two dead cops

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  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Unfortunately it's come to this. the primal side of me thinks "now they feel the pain that they've caused families" it hit home.
    It's tragic, these cops may have had excellent personell records. The shooter clearly took his as an opportunity for recognition before he killed himself. He has already decided on sucide when he shot his girlfriend.
    I wonder what the leaders of the protest wil say about this. Did they have a hand in this? I wonder how the cops will respond on the street. It's not gonna go well.
    But as JC stated, this will affect the movement,,,,many protestors will be scared away from this. You see, this is reality. Life isn't about walking around with a bunch of signs thinking all will be well. There's many out there that take shit seriously.
    The cops deal with misery, but that was never the issue. Guys were being killed over little issues at the hands of the police. Cops need to go fight real criminals. Murderers, Robbers, violent assaults....this is where they're appreciated. That is the issue. Many miniorities were being treated as if all situations were deadly situations.....
    This is the end result....so what now? how do you mend this?
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    It really is a terrible tragedy. No cop deserves to die for doing their jobs.

    I disagree that this will affect the movement. It will undoubtedly be politicized by the far right, as Fox News has already begun to do, but I tend to look at this from a different perspective. Just because a lone gunman made a horrendous decision doesn't mean that the other 99 percent of peaceful protesters should just shut up and go home. Police brutality is far too big of an issue to go away just because of a senseless tragedy like this.

    This is not the first time a police officer has been gunned down and it will not be the last. Those who suggest that this gives cops a free hand to come down hard on peaceful protesters are on the wrong side of history.

    I also disagree that peaceful, and sometimes even violent, protests don't change things. It took decades of protests to end Jim Crow in the south. Hundreds, if not thousands of protesters were killed throughout those tough times. Many police officers were killed during those tough times as well. However, what came out of those protests was the breaking down of Jim Crow, the signing of the Voting Rights Act, and the passage of the 24th Amendment.

    Those were not easy times, but massive and consistent protests are directly responsible for ushering in that change. Massive and consistent protests against the ability of police to murder unarmed citizens are needed to force our police to change the way they treat 'the enemy,' as they so often like to call us regular folk.
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I think the first thing we need to do is minimize the race baiters rhetoric, take away their personal agenda, then maybe we can have that serious discussion that everyone seems to want to talk about, we must not use the past issues of horrible acts of violence against minorities as some sort of a hammer to beat out a revenge theory and call it progress when in fact it will only bring more resentment,. I think the minorities have made great strides in this country since those days of the Reign of the Klan as well as the hidden racial bias that was held by many in this country, we have to stop with this hyphenated national identity as we or so many of us do to claim ourselves as citizens, we are all Americans, Period. We embrace our heritage, warts and all. Very few nations, if any at all , have not done terrible things to one another to bring about a stable government, that is what happens when you attempt to build a nation, again embrace it , we own it, lets move on from there, don't forget it , just don't allow it to imped your progress, which it seems so many of these social activists are want to do. Just remember that if you want change minus the violence then use the ballot box, stay informed and if you want to declare war on the largest and best armed gang in the world, then be my guest, all you will succeed at doing is having wholesale destruction on the urban areas of the country and of course your own destruction as well as your message. So give it some thought before you act on an emotional level., Remember that old proverb about a thrown rock, once thrown you cannot call it back,
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Jared,

    But in the sixties movement bombs were being set off, Martin Luther King was killed...I believe those were very different times. People actually gave a damn. There isn't that kind of unity anymore.. People were serious about change back then. These college kids get involved with these protests to show some "political correctness" and not because they care.
    It's almost as if they seek that 15minutes of fame on you tube. I don't see it.

    Even when these younger guys started showing up in the penitentiary the last few years I was there, not the same caliber. Soft as hell. Always needing some type of correcting. It wasn't like that when I went in the system. Men knew how to act, These younger guys have no independent.thought. We had to tell them how to act. This is why prison is gettig worse...theres a generational struggle. No manners or respect...until someone takes a knife.

    Out here, why do things have to go so far overboard before tings get addressed? Where's the middle? nobody wants to give an inch. Me, Me Me
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    As I sit here and watch the vigil for the two officers....how do you bridge that gap? too much coverage on the differences between the two groups. I truly believe the media played the most part in this. Everyday...24 hours of coverage. Every city...every idiot with an opinion.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    By God.............I agree with LA.............too many people with opinions that counter peaceful coexistence. "Peace On Earth and Good Will to All", for some reason it just doesn't feel as peaceful as last years. As those that gloat on their comical and cheesy responses, you all know what you are really saying.......just quit trying to dig a hole. I find it very interesting in contrast between the Officer shootings and the past over-hyped media eventual criminal citizen casualties. Sorry, no comparison, there are murders and/or assassinations and there are justifiable Police actions on a criminal element. The media has just shown who makes the news more and why. The public being shot by Police makes news because protests can be created for more news. Police being shot is one week of news and it's over. That's lame and rooting for the wrong side. Is the media at fault here? I believe they are suspect to fouling the air.

    Bye...........I'm going to enjoy Christmas and try to resurrect some peace in my mind from all the hate.
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    I understand that there have been police shootings of unarmed persons, but I cannot understand these reprisals against police officers that have NOT done anything that could be considered as being against the law. It is almost like the U.S. Congress passing some law, and some citizen decides to show his/her displeasure by killing some STATE legislator. How could such an action give anyone any satisfaction
  • Center Left
    Independent
    Central, FL
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    The killing of these two officers is a sad tragedy. They did nothing to deserve this fate. If I hadn't seen the story on the news and someone said a senseless killing involving 2 white cops......... I wouldn't have expected this. I would have naturally thought it was the cops who killed another unarmed person.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Michael39301 Wrote: I understand that there have been police shootings of unarmed persons, but I cannot understand these reprisals against police officers that have NOT done anything that could be considered as being against the law. It is almost like the U.S. Congress passing some law, and some citizen decides to show his/her displeasure by killing some STATE legislator. How could such an action give anyone any satisfaction
    I understand the reprisals completely.....most people in the ghetto blame outside factors for their situations... that's just the way it is...."It's not my fault, it's the man keeping me down"
    Now, you couple that mentality with a constant bombardment of CNN running story after story from people that already are in a bad situation. Broke, poor housing, welfare, alcohol, drugs...and poor encounters with the police.
    This shooter....his life's a mess...and now problems with his girl.
    This has to be the perfect ingredient for something like this to happen.... He now has purpose. He goes out like a street hero (in his mind).This guy's a nobody his whole life......"I'm going to be remembered for something"
    Many people who murder and then committ suicide feel this way (well documented)
    And all these media whores...Gloria Allred, Rev. Al, jeff Toobin, and now even Alan dershowitz...adding fuel to fire..... On the flip side...former cops, police unions, politicians,,,,, all weighing in.......................the shooter has a platform now,,,,being famous, finally being heard.
  • Liberal
    Independent
    Durham, NH
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    It's always wrong when anyone gets killed for simply who they are or represent, BUT, in spite of all the rhetoric by wind bags pols like Rudy G, this has nothing to do with race relations. The guy was a mentally disturbed individual just looking for a way to express his anger at anybody and everything whereas the "killer cops" are and were people who are supposed to be responsible for protecting everyone, not just those that happen to look like them and hire them. A very big difference between a mentally disturbed killer vs poorly trained, bigoted police offer killers!

    The Conservative, white, Christian community and the police unions are directly responsible for all of this, not some nut case. I'm suck of seeing and hearing phony, self-serving police representatives and politicians blaming everyone but themselves and their actions for all the racial violence in this county!

    Unfortunately, this is just the beginning on both sides, I'm afraid. The police will continue to overreact by shooting first and asking question later and those subject to police brutality will become embolden to start fighting back. It's going to be a war zone for quite a while, I'm afraid, with no winners.

    At least, we can all sleep well at night knowing it's God will;(
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    pgr Wrote: It's always wrong when anyone gets killed for simply who they are or represent, BUT, in spite of all the rhetoric by wind bags pols like Rudy G, this has nothing to do with race relations. The guy was a mentally disturbed individual just looking for a way to express his anger at anybody and everything whereas the "killer cops" are and were people who are supposed to be responsible for protecting everyone, not just those that happen to look like them and hire them. A very big difference between a mentally disturbed killer vs poorly trained, bigoted police offer killers!

    The Conservative, white, Christian community and the police unions are directly responsible for all of this, not some nut case. I'm suck of seeing and hearing phony, self-serving police representatives and politicians blaming everyone but themselves and their actions for all the racial violence in this county!

    Unfortunately, this is just the beginning on both sides, I'm afraid. The police will continue to overreact by shooting first and asking question later and those subject to police brutality will become embolden to start fighting back. It's going to be a war zone for quite a while, I'm afraid, with no winners.

    At least, we can all sleep well at night knowing it's God will;(
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    Yes fully agree; I just wonder when the promised "re-training" is completed and take effect at the police forces and when they do hand back all the "war" equipment they received from the Pentagon; then they can scrap the training on that equipment.
    By the way about "god's will; I doubt if it did invent "triggers" or was involved in police training.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    I'm hesitant to politicize this tragedy, but I can't help but notice the difference in how Fox News and white America are reporting the shooting in New York and how they reported the cold blooded murder of two cops in Nevada during the 'Bundy Ranch' protests.

    The right wing media reported Jerad and Amanda Miller's murder of two cops in Nevada a hell of a lot differently than they are this time around. I should rephrase that because most right wing media outlets didn't bother reporting the cop murders at all. Rudy Giuliani, police unions, and countless other right wing organizations were nowhere to be found when it comes to lambasting the right wing protesters and directly blaming Republican politicians and the protesters for the murders. No, the right wing just went silent because it didn't fit their agenda of blaming liberals for everything.

    The killing of any police officer is a tragedy, but the right wing media machine only perpetuates the problem by sensationalizing some while ignoring others that don't fit their agenda. The police unions and politicians who politicize some while ignoring others only make it worse. What is the main difference between what happened in New York and Nevada? I'll give everyone one guess...
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    Trauma surgeons and Medical examiners see as much, if not more gore than the police do. This is where education is the difference. A friend of mine (a cop) said to me, "Youve never had to see a child dead from a bullet".....and I responded with, 'Thats why I'll never be a cop or wanted to"
    Even so, their job is to come in and seal a crime scene and look for potential witnesses. Once that child gets in their head it may be time to find another job
    That's the reality of being a cop. You cannot take this job personally.
    I can honestly tell you that if I were a cop, i would have been one of the bad apples. I'm a racist. I hate blacks and always will. This has been indoctrinated in me very young. They've killed friends of mine. I hated them out here..only to hate them more when I got out. I do understand their position but again,,,, too much history between them and us.
    Many east coast blacks would ask me in prison.. "why do you california mexicans hate us so much" I would reply, It's not for you to understand.....It is what it is. Am I wrong for that? Yes.... but it doesn't change anything.
    Many cops prior to taking this job feel as I do......How do you fix that? How can I change that?
    I've honestly tried to change....but I won't. I keep falling back to these beliefs and memories.
    How will retraining take away from that core belief? People are who they are. To simply recognize that we have hatred or are racists isn't enough to effectuate change.
    Do you now screen the entire polce departments across America?
    I mention these feelings because they are true feelings....and I know I'm wrong . I'm just trying to paint you a picture of what people have to overcome in this situation.....IS IT ATTAINABLE?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    You have to be able to compartmentalize certain things that you are witnessed to or you will you burn out fast, you cannot have someone so emotionally detached from his responses to events and then render split second decisions without having a bias, should I save the child or the mother, can I protect both of them , if I chose the child and the mother dies, I made this child motherless and what about the siblings ,who because of this child they are also motherless, of course we don't go to such a checklist but our bias will show in our everyday duties , unless you want automatons doing the policing. This is why lawyers make so much money off of a cops decision to shoot or not shoot, they have months to prepare a case against the particular decision while the officer had only seconds to make that decision., and there is really no way to know in advance what an officer will do in that situation, and when that time comes, and unlike the lawyers who can second guess every moment of that confrontation afterwards,the cop has no such luxury, his second guessing could himself or others killed. This why I say let the system play out and if there are errors within the system ,then work on getting them out.