Forum Thread

Non-Lethal methods for Police

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  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Although there are many against the use of guns or lethal weapons, there are many other forms of aids to crowd control and unruly perpetrators that resist arrest and/or threaten Police. Even the Taser has proven to be lethal when used improperly or unknowingly on a person suffering from a health issue. As mankind moves forward in some degree of humanity and peaceful existence, Police will evolve with better methods of crowd control and incapacitating violent situation. I located a few new high tech solutions that have been emerging into the police and the military.

    1. Microwave Ray Gun: This injects blasts of sound into the head, bypassing the hearing through ears, so that ear plugs would be useless. Various sounds can e injected that I assume is modulating audio on to a microwave carrier. It would be the frequency carrier that would resonate the target and thus the modulated audio would be picked up as hearing actual sound. However, there is no sound, just the brain perceiving noise or maybe that that extremely loud AC/DC rock music that would make you come to your knees thinking your in pain. Police could use this as crowd control as in "non-lethal sound bullets". Sorry, the Police would most likely pick the music or sounds.

    2. Active Denial System: This is called a massive pain ray and it causes painful burning sensations. The ray penetrates the skin just far enough to excite the nerve endings and think your on fire. I wonder if this is a torture technique? If your harmed by any burn flesh, the only effect would be the mind. Don't know how long lasting the effects would be. However, the perpetrator that is hit by this ray would probably wish he/she was shot by a lethal round than suffer burning irritations.

    3. PHASR (Personal Halting and Stimulation Response): This is a crowd blinding rifle. It dazzles the eyes into temporary blindness. I don't know about this weapon used on a violent or threatening crowd. Being blind they would most likely run into each other, buildings, trip and fall causing a variety of injuries.

    4. VORTEX Ring (my favorite called the Fart Gun): This creates a cone shaped pocket of supersonic pressurized air. An incapacitating agent that smells really bad is injected into the air, which when combined with the pressurized air and bad smell knocks down the perpetrator or for crowd control. I've know many people that I didn't want to be down wind from when they cut loose. Really this is a weapon that your hard earn taxes paid to the government funded research into development. If I had known this was possible, I would have eaten more hard-boiled eggs in my lifetime.

    I looking for more non-lethal weapons for our police. That Batman belt the Police wears is getting fatter the more I find. So just how many seconds are required to choose the weapon of choice when you have more than 5, 7, 10 or more. Two seconds is the trained response for certification in reaction timing.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    How about just doing your job. How about good ole policing and not attacking. How about relations....not retalliation. How about community service? How about some dialogue.......put the fart gun away
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    Apparently, there are those that want the gun put away entirely. I assume that police holding up their finger to you is just what is needed to stop crime? Sounds pretty foolish and not wise in a Police protecting themselves and other people. To Serve & Protect...............that is the motto!
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: Apparently, there are those that want the gun put away entirely. I assume that police holding up their finger to you is just what is needed to stop crime? Sounds pretty foolish and not wise in a Police protecting themselves and other people. To Serve & Protect...............that is the motto!
    Well, technically it is protect and serve. And they have been protecting and serving the hell out of our black citizens a lot here lately.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: How about just doing your job. How about good ole policing and not attacking. How about relations....not retalliation. How about community service? How about some dialogue.......put the fart gun away
    Man...if only our cops could do that nationwide. Instead of treating citizens as the enemy, maybe they can actually work with them to keep the peace. I know it's such a crazy concept--treating the people you are serving like actual people and not a villain.
  • Liberal
    Other Party
    Llos Angeles, CA
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    jaredsxtn Wrote:
    L.A. Citizen Wrote: How about just doing your job. How about good ole policing and not attacking. How about relations....not retalliation. How about community service? How about some dialogue.......put the fart gun away
    Man...if only our cops could do that nationwide. Instead of treating citizens as the enemy, maybe they can actually work with them to keep the peace. I know it's such a crazy concept--treating the people you are serving like actual people and not a villain.
    What my good buddy AMC fails to understand is that the people pay their salaries...the "us versus them mentality "cannot exist when you work for the citizens. The only way this can occur is thruogh the dehumanization of people. Any people. Cops don't get that. And when you look at the policing that other countries engage in (England, France , Germany) then it becomes very clear.....why is it only happening here?
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    Sorry AMC, I find no humor in your four scenarios regarding non-lethal force, especially with all of the violence being done in the name of Justice by those who say they seeking justice, as for "Protect and Serve" there is a further duty described along with that motto and that is "Enforcement of the Law", without which you can't do the Protect and Serve part, all of which the people do pay the salaries of their law Enforcement officials to do.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    The intent was to start a list in ongoing development of non lethal weapons. However, I did add some opinionated statements on the ideas being developed into weapons that boldly questions the use and could be humor. I'll take that heat, but with no malice intended to harm anyone, especially Police. I would assume any law enforcement and military that uses these weapons would have their very own comedy in play. To indicate that police have no humor is false. My police friends have much humor and would laugh at the mere thought of such weapons I have already identified. My true intent was to show that there is major industry development in non lethal weaponry. I assume that because of public outcry on the use of lethal force, society is encouraging development of non lethal means to apprehend and halt violence in the streets without harming the person. In order to provide law enforcement there is a need for some kind of controlled action, either by lethal or non lethal means. By non lethal means, an officer may use psychology to control the situation, some form of physical force, or the use of a high-tech weapon that does no harm, but controls the perpetrator.

    To give you an intelligent idea of this emerging market, you may purchase the "Non-Lethal Weapons (NLW) Industry, Technologies & Global Market (2014-2020)" report that details all world development of non lethal weapons. The market caters to the public, safety industry, military, and law enforcement. The report lists all the developing countries in the world and identifies by country their contribution to non lethal weapons. It is pretty pricey for the report (Licensed as $4450.00). I was surprised at the cost, but look who they are selling it to. Governments and militaries, who have major funding to spend.
  • Strongly Liberal Democrat
    Democrat
    Portland, OR
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    L.A. Citizen Wrote: What my good buddy AMC fails to understand is that the people pay their salaries...the "us versus them mentality "cannot exist when you work for the citizens. The only way this can occur is thruogh the dehumanization of people. Any people. Cops don't get that. And when you look at the policing that other countries engage in (England, France , Germany) then it becomes very clear.....why is it only happening here?
    There's a lot of reasons it is happening here. First and foremost, our country is still struggling to rid itself of its racist past. We must remind ourselves that Jim Crow was still around less than one generation ago. There are still millions of individuals in this country who grew up during that time, were taught to be racist by their parents, and in turn taught their kids to be racist. Anyone who suggests we are in some post racial utopia is, pardon me for being a little blunt, an idiot.

    It is baffling that Germany, a country that murdered millions upon millions of individuals, has been able to make things right at a faster rate than we can though...
  • Democrat
    Philadelphia, PA
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    When I was active ,there was a certain type of locker room humor ,it some circles it could be even considered macabre by many citizens and also inappropriate whenever we were discussing the days events, that being said , this discussion was about lethal force against black men done by police officers at a higher rate than was necessary. So I thought you were attempting to make light of the situation, my apologies for taking your comments out of context.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    More developing non-lethal weapons in the markets:

    http://jnlwp.defense.gov/DevelopingNonLethalWeapons.aspx

    This link is from DOD and sub-links descriptions on non-lethal weapons being developed.

    -40mm Human Electro-Muscular Incapacitation Projectile
    -81mm Non-Lethal Indirect Fire Munition
    -Distributed Sound and Light Array
    -Improved Flash Bang Grenade
    -Mission Payload Module Non-Lethal Weapon System
    -Ocular Interruption
    -XM1112 Airburst Non-Lethal Munition (Low Velocity)
    -XM1116 12-Gauge Non-Lethal Extended Range Marking Munition
    -Pre-Emplaced Electric Vehicle Stopper
    -Vehicle Lightweight Arresting Device Single Net Solution with Remote Deployment Device
    -Vessel Stopping Entanglement

    Although there is strong exhibition of developing non-lethal weapons, there costs to any law enforcement may be prohibitive. For example, an Police Officers gun (est. $500.00), Taser ($300.00, and Pepper spray ($200.00) all in quantity costing, will most likely be a whole lot less than any of these new high-tech weapons. So, how much is society willing to pay for non-lethal tools for their Police to use. Now it comes down to money and how much are you willing to pay for less deaths from an Officer's actions? I assume these new items will cost Police around the country, thousands of dollars to equipped one (1) Police Officer.

    Recognizing the costs to equip Police sort of places a new perspective on things, doesn't it. Oh, I know the old saying, "Cost should not be any factor in saving lives." Yea, you have to really believe in the tooth fairy to think the Public will spend more taxes.
  • Independent
    Ft.myers, FL
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    AmcmurryFreedom Wrote: More developing non-lethal weapons in the markets:

    http://jnlwp.defense.gov/DevelopingNonLethalWeapons.aspx

    This link is from DOD and sub-links descriptions on non-lethal weapons being developed.

    -40mm Human Electro-Muscular Incapacitation Projectile
    -81mm Non-Lethal Indirect Fire Munition
    -Distributed Sound and Light Array
    -Improved Flash Bang Grenade
    -Mission Payload Module Non-Lethal Weapon System
    -Ocular Interruption
    -XM1112 Airburst Non-Lethal Munition (Low Velocity)
    -XM1116 12-Gauge Non-Lethal Extended Range Marking Munition
    -Pre-Emplaced Electric Vehicle Stopper
    -Vehicle Lightweight Arresting Device Single Net Solution with Remote Deployment Device
    -Vessel Stopping Entanglement

    Although there is strong exhibition of developing non-lethal weapons, there costs to any law enforcement may be prohibitive. For example, an Police Officers gun (est. $500.00), Taser ($300.00, and Pepper spray ($200.00) all in quantity costing, will most likely be a whole lot less than any of these new high-tech weapons. So, how much is society willing to pay for non-lethal tools for their Police to use. Now it comes down to money and how much are you willing to pay for less deaths from an Officer's actions? I assume these new items will cost Police around the country, thousands of dollars to equipped one (1) Police Officer.

    Recognizing the costs to equip Police sort of places a new perspective on things, doesn't it. Oh, I know the old saying, "Cost should not be any factor in saving lives." Yea, you have to really believe in the tooth fairy to think the Public will spend more taxes.
    Pure nonsense; why can they do without all that crap in other countries,where they have real police training instead of the "military Rambo" version here.
  • Democrat
    Missouri
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    America does not have a "shoot-to-kill" policy with Police organizations. Reading up on countries around the world that are notorious for this police reaction shows South Africa, Israel, and many third world countries. Apparently, the thinking is that suspects that are wounded will strike back killing the police officer. So, it is comforting to know that America hasn't lapsed into the legal version of "shoot-to-kill". Although, many police shootings are deadly, because training dictates shooting center of the torso, which can have tragic and deadly results.

    While efforts to promote non-lethal means of using police force, the markets are buzzing with industry selling more than ever weapons to be more humane. I located another site describing the market from 2015 through 2025 with a narrative that shows how the world is changing for law enforcement. This link is new and references the police action in Ferguson, MO.

    http://www.wcax.com/story/27629321/police-law-enforcement-equipment-market-2015-2025

    (For some reason...this link will not auto link, so copy and paste to your Web Link bar and it will work)

    Another web site located provided an "Outline" of law enforcement with a variety of links on subject areas, such as, police psychology and deadly force. Use the search bar for "Outline of Law Enforcement", which is provided by Wikipedia. The deadly force link is very interesting. Please look at the outline, because it has a many subject areas defined in law enforcement.

    Searching countries on the comparing equipment carried by police shows a large variety and types of force structure in each organization. While countries like Britain continue to maintain a non-carry gun enforcement, they have a quick reactionary territory patrol that is armed with a combination of deadly weapons (sniper rifles, submachine guns, shotguns, baton guns and all riding in Armed Response Vehicles. These British territorial patrols respond within 10 minutes upon call from the regular police. Netherlands and Dutch have a joint police force and carry similar to most police, including having SWAT teams with more advanced weapon fire power. It does appear the British have the more non-gun carry policy, but that is being threatened by Britain experiencing more terror and violence than ever before. There is discussion that Britain may arm all their police in the future, but for now, they enjoy having the distinction of having less fatal meetings with the public.